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 » RockyTalky
»  » Size over clarity, and is there a cutoff for TOO BIG?? (or - how PS has done weird things to my sense of grip on reality)
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Size over clarity, and is there a cutoff for TOO BIG?? (or - how PS has done weird things to my sense of grip on reality) |
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| P: 2/4/2008 6:06:21 PM | |
Minou Rough Rock Total Posts: 22 Last Post: 3/17/2008 Member Since: 12/17/2007 |
Hi everyone - First off, let me preface this by saying that I've spent enough time on PS to know that the questions that I am going to ask are all subjective in nature, and that there is no 'right answer'. So, long story short, I am looking for an ideal cut RB stone. My budget is around $45k. I have decided on F color - my fiance is color-sensitive and I want to honor his thoughts about this whole purchase as well as my own. I had thought that I'd become set on a VS2 stone if possible. I think that it's a good balance between not 'buying' clarity beyond what I could ever hope to see 99% of the time. I have been looking in the 2.5 - 3 carat range and, as many of you know, inventory in this range is not *huge*. I found a 2.7 FVS2 that I love. I thought that it was the perfect fit, because my fiance thought that the 3 caraters looked 'too big' on my size 5.5 finger. This was not based on cost but on how he thought it looked on my finger. Again, I wanted to honor his perspectives in this search/purchase. That said, a stone has recently become available that's an FSI2, 3.7 carats. 3.7!! This is where I begin to feel as if I'm losing my mind. When I first started looking, I was looking at 1.75 - 2 carat stones, then 2.25 - 2.4 carat stones, then 2.5 and up stones... although this is crazy and has to end somwhere... right?? Both the 2.7 and 3.7 are GIA Ex/Ex/Ex, HCA around 1.2, no fluor. I will admit that perusing the 'Show me your 3+ carat rings' and the 'Celebrity rings' threads does little for my feelings of perspective and sanity in this whole process. I feel like I'm losing my grip on reality - or am I?? I don't know how eye-clean the 3.7 SI2 is - they are looking at it tomorrow and will let me know. Obviously if it is not eye-clean, or has dark inclusions under the table then it would be an immediate pass. I also know that clarity grades are relative to size, so this SI2 might well be like an SI3 or an I in a 1 carat stone. I guess my questions are: recognizing that this is a personal and subjective call that I need to make for myself, how much would you trade clarity for size, and at what point would you QUIT trading clarity for size and just be delighted with a beautiful, relatively very large stone?? Also, while I know that I would likely get used to a 3.7 ct in short enough order, I also know that based on my geography and social circle (ie: NOT Manhattan, LA, Johannesburg, or the like) that there is surely a point at which a larger sized stone might begin to look... unreal? ... a little *too* over the top? Curious to get any of your valuable insights... Thank you!! 
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| Posted: 2/4/2008 6:06:21 PM | |
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There are 36 replies to this message. There are 30 replies on this page. |
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| P: 2/4/2008 6:35:04 PM | |
coatimundi_org Ideal Rock Total Posts: 6,312 Last Post: 6/7/2009 Member Since: 12/9/2007 |
I can be clarity sensitive. Larger stones may show more inclusions, so it would have to be 100% eye clean for me to consider it. For the price you are paying, you should be able to get a very good sized stone at a better clarity. Si1s and Si2s are fine if they are totally eyeclean. I'd keep looking and go slightly smaller, if that 3.7carat is not eye clean. Your a 5.5 right? A 3 carat is going to look large on you, and if you're worried about a larger stone looking fake-as you wrote, maybe you should stick to the 3 carat mark. BUT If that 3.7 is totally eye clean(and of course, is an ideal/excellent cut)--and it fits with your lifestyle etc.,go for it! Coati, G.G. |
| Posted: 2/4/2008 6:35:04 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 6:41:37 PM | |
DiamanteBlu Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,474 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 7/12/2005 |
Date: 2/4/2008 6:06:21 PM Author:Minou I guess my questions are: recognizing that this is a personal and subjective call that I need to make for myself, how much would you trade clarity for size, and at what point would you QUIT trading clarity for size and just be delighted with a beautiful, relatively very large stone?? Also, while I know that I would likely get used to a 3.7 ct in short enough order, I also know that based on my geography and social circle (ie: NOT Manhattan, LA, Johannesburg, or the like) that there is surely a point at which a larger sized stone might begin to look... unreal? ... a little *too* over the top? I love size [as many of you know]. I believe that you should pick your color tolerance first, then the size [and of course you may need to go higher on the color the larger the size] and then see where you are with clarity given you price tolerance. As long as the stone is eye clean I'd say you are doing well. Hope this helps. ============================ |
| Posted: 2/4/2008 6:41:37 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 6:49:59 PM | |
Allison D. Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,722 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 2/1/2008 |
I don't have an 'arbitary' cutoff; I'd happily trade clarity for size as long as the stone remains eyeclean to the naked eye and stays within my comfort zones for color. I'd also have to consider at what point I'd end up feeling potentially uncomfortable about the attention that a sizable diamond would likely bring. Some gals feel really confident and can pull off larger rings; other don't like the attention they bring. Allison Dewey...."Alj" |
| Posted: 2/4/2008 6:49:59 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 6:56:57 PM | |
Addy Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,915 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 10/20/2007 |
There's no cutoff for me. It would really depend how it looked on me and how comfortable I felt. I have less than a half carat and DH and I were laughing one day at a 3 carat emerald cut in a store window so I went in and asked to try it on. I could get used to that size in VERY short order!! Even DH had to admit it wasn't too large. If it's eye clean I'd seriously consider it :)
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| Posted: 2/4/2008 6:56:57 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 6:59:22 PM | |
Sparkalicious Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,719 Last Post: 9/19/2009 Member Since: 11/22/2007 |
I guess my questions are: recognizing that this is a personal and subjective call that I need to make for myself, how much would you trade clarity for size, and at what point would you QUIT trading clarity for size and just be delighted with a beautiful, relatively very large stone?? Also, while I know that I would likely get used to a 3.7 ct in short enough order, I also know that based on my geography and social circle (ie: NOT Manhattan, LA, Johannesburg, or the like) that there is surely a point at which a larger sized stone might begin to look... unreal? ... a little *too* over the top? Once a stone was getting big to the point where inclusions are quite apparent, I would quit. Apparently, as it has been explained to me by my jeweler, larger stones, are graded differently, therefore, an SI2 in a larger stone may not be as likely to be eyeclean as a similar smaller diamond. If I was going to go for size, I would have to insist that the stone was eyeclean, to my standards, meaning that there are no visible inclusions in the pavillion and not just the table and that I wasn't able to "find" the inclusions with my naked eye. If I could look hard enough or under the right light and see them, without using a loupe, for example, that would be a definite dealbreaker for me. I would prefer the "perceived" better quality of the smaller (relatively speaking since 2.7 is a great size) stone that was completely, without a question, clean to the eye over the bigger one that was not. * Too much of a good thing can be wonderful * ~ Mae West |
| Posted: 2/4/2008 6:59:22 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 7:08:03 PM | |
Skippy123 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 19,822 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 11/24/2006 |
Date: 2/4/2008 6:56:57 PM Author: Addy There's no cutoff for me. It would really depend how it looked on me and how comfortable I felt. I agree w/the above and what your social circle is; on PS I feel like my stone is a little small but out and about it looks big. That is a great budget! Happy shopping. Skippy  "The only things that stand between a person and what they want in life are the will to try it, and the faith to believe it's possible" Rich Devos |
| Posted: 2/4/2008 7:08:03 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 7:22:43 PM | |
diamondseeker2006 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 17,609 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 1/11/2006 |
I would faaaaar rather have a 2.7 carat F VS1 or VS2 over a 3.7 ct. F SI2. Stones that size are going to have significant inclusions even if they aren't visible in the face up position (be sure you check the sides, too!). But I am clarity sensitive and I admit it! If I had $45,000 to spend, I'd want a colorless stone, with high clarity, and the very best cut, and then see what size that would give me. In my world (small town), a 3+ carat stone would be significantly out of place. I have the largest diamond of all my friends at 1.63 cts. already! I do know a couple of women with 2 carat stones, but they are not the quality of my stone, because I can see the difference. If you lived in Beverly Hills or Manhattan, I'd say go for the 3.7! Otherwise, realize that a 2.7 carat stone is huge on a size 5.5 (also my size), and you will always have peace knowing that you went for high color, cut, and clarity!
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| Posted: 2/4/2008 7:22:43 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 7:37:07 PM | |
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Minou Rough Rock Total Posts: 22 Last Post: 3/17/2008 Member Since: 12/17/2007 |
I am really appreciating all of this feedback everyone - thanks! In my perfect world I might find an FSI1 that was eyeclean and awesome in the 3 - 3.3 ct range - however we are in a bit of a rush to get this sorted. We are planning (and have been for a while) a July wedding and my fiance doesn't want to let anyone know that until we have a ring. He doesn't seem to get that people need some lead time for things like this! Anyway - all of this to say that ideally we would just shop and shop until the *perfect* stone appeared, but in practical terms we need to get this done, as it will probably take another month to get the stone appraised, set, etc., etc.!! I do realize that PS is not the *norm* insofar as diamonds and sizes, etc. go. It's just so easy to keep resetting your idea of what looks 'right' when you see so many awesome rings in sizes that get bigger and bigger! We also determined that we would shop for a stone that would be *it* rather than looking to upgrade in the future - moreso for sentimental reasons than financial ones I think. For that reason we have not put a premium on a vendor with lifetime upgrade policies, but maybe we should? I'm wondering if the likelihood is greater that I'd get the 2.7 and eventually wish for larger, or get the 3.7 and eventually wish for 'cleaner'. Again, I know that there's no *right* answer to this!... Arghhh! Thanks again for the feedback - keep it comin'!!
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| Posted: 2/4/2008 7:37:07 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 7:40:47 PM | |
EricaR Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,108 Last Post: 11/17/2009 Member Since: 12/4/2007 |
Date: 2/4/2008 7:22:43 PM Author: diamondseeker2006 I would faaaaar rather have a 2.7 carat F VS1 or VS2 over a 3.7 ct. F SI2. Ditto! I will say that my mom has a 3.65ct solitaire that she wears every day. It does attract some attention - lots of people comment on it and many just think it is fake. I have tried it on and it looks HUGE on me and I don't think I would feel comfortable wearing it every day. I guess it just depends on your comfort level.
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| Posted: 2/4/2008 7:40:47 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 7:42:34 PM | |
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diamondseeker2006 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 17,609 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 1/11/2006 |
Well, in my case personally, I went for higher clarity and size when I got a new stone. How big are the stones of your friends or sisters? 2.7 is really a very large stone in most circles. I definitely think you should wait and get what YOU want, but if you are trying to avoid ever upgrading, I'd get a very mind clean stone now.
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| Posted: 2/4/2008 7:42:34 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 8:01:33 PM | |
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Minou Rough Rock Total Posts: 22 Last Post: 3/17/2008 Member Since: 12/17/2007 |
Date: 2/4/2008 7:42:34 PM Author: diamondseeker2006 Well, in my case personally, I went for higher clarity and size when I got a new stone. How big are the stones of your friends or sisters? 2.7 is really a very large stone in most circles. I definitely think you should wait and get what YOU want, but if you are trying to avoid ever upgrading, I'd get a very mind clean stone now. In my social circle 2.7 would very definitely be considered large. I have friends with 2 carat stones but nothing above that. In my fiances social circle it may be a different story - he's a doctor and a bit older than me, so his friends fall more into the 'well established' category. Your point about ensuring that I have a 'mind clean' stone if I don't plan to upgrade is a good one. I've been thinking more along the lines of ensuring that I won't have that shrinking stone syndrome, but I guess having 'issues' with mind-cleanliness would be just as bad if not worse!!
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| Posted: 2/4/2008 8:01:33 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 8:17:28 PM | |
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006 |
Putting aside my own personal preference on size, or lack of, my advice would be to think about ALL your social circles, and get what you can wear "comfortably" in all of them, whatever that is. What a nice dilemma. 
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| Posted: 2/4/2008 8:17:28 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 8:40:02 PM | |
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diamondseeker2006 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 17,609 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 1/11/2006 |
Date: 2/4/2008 8:17:28 PM Author: Ellen Putting aside my own personal preference on size, or lack of, my advice would be to think about ALL your social circles, and get what you can wear 'comfortably' in all of them, whatever that is. What a nice dilemma. A big ditto to that!!!  We'd love it if you'd come back and post pictures of your ring!
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| Posted: 2/4/2008 8:40:02 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 8:41:33 PM | |
meganpepi Rough Rock Total Posts: 12 Last Post: 2/15/2008 Member Since: 1/8/2008 |
I can see what you mean about probably not wanting to upgrade in the future as afterall this is the ring that has "sentimental" attached to it. If I were in your position I would choose a stone that naturally has the best cut, a wonderful clarity and colour and then the size would be the final issue. I really feel you would be sorry you didn't choose the great clarity even though it's eye clean just knowing there are inclusions when you have the financial means to do away with them. What a lovely problem!!
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| Posted: 2/4/2008 8:41:33 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 8:44:31 PM | |
Dee*Jay Ideal Rock Total Posts: 6,491 Last Post: 9/23/2009 Member Since: 3/26/2006 |
One of the big things that would play into it for me is how you plan to set it. If it's going to be a solitare that I'd definitely go bigger (and for those of you who know me I'm sure this comes as no surprise ). But if you're planning on side stones or (gasp!) a halo or something like that then you might want to consider the smaller stone. Just my 2 cents... ETA: Doesn't Solange have an eye clean SI2? They do exist!
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| Posted: 2/4/2008 8:44:31 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 8:46:45 PM | |
Tacori E-ring Ideal Rock Total Posts: 16,082 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 8/15/2005 |
How are you planning on setting it?
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| Posted: 2/4/2008 8:46:45 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 8:49:29 PM | |
isis~goddess Cut Rock Total Posts: 384 Last Post: 4/28/2009 Member Since: 9/5/2007 |
i don't really have a social circle. it's more like a social network. one day i'm at the junk yard catching up with the yard owner (yes, we gossip) and the next minute i'm at a resort in waikiki getting a massage on the beach. there are times when i feel showy with a 3.5 tcw. other times i feel right at home. obviously i have to be prepared for anything. that's why i have multiple rings. go for big, and im sure down the road your hubby will have no problem getting you something smaller if you want something more casual.
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| Posted: 2/4/2008 8:49:29 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 8:50:06 PM | |
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Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006 |
Date: 2/4/2008 8:44:31 PM Yes, and I believe it's 4 cts.Author: Dee*Jay One of the big things that would play into it for me is how you plan to set it. If it's going to be a solitare that I'd definitely go bigger (and for those of you who know me I'm sure this comes as no surprise ). But if you're planning on side stones or (gasp!) a halo or something like that then you might want to consider the smaller stone. Just my 2 cents...ETA: Doesn't Solange have an eye clean SI2? They do exist! Very good point about the setting of the stone Miss Dee. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
| Posted: 2/4/2008 8:50:06 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 8:50:47 PM | |
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isis~goddess Cut Rock Total Posts: 384 Last Post: 4/28/2009 Member Since: 9/5/2007 |
i don't really have a social circle. it's more like a social network. one day i'm at the junk yard catching up with the yard owner (yes, we gossip) and the next minute i'm at a resort in waikiki getting a massage on the beach. there are times when i feel showy with a 3.5 tcw. other times i feel right at home. obviously i have to be prepared for anything. that's why i have multiple rings. go for big, and im sure down the road your hubby will have no problem getting you something smaller if you want something more casual.
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| Posted: 2/4/2008 8:50:47 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 8:52:25 PM | |
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Dee*Jay Ideal Rock Total Posts: 6,491 Last Post: 9/23/2009 Member Since: 3/26/2006 |
Date: 2/4/2008 8:50:06 PM Author: Ellen Date: 2/4/2008 8:44:31 PM Yes, and I believe it's 4 cts.Author: Dee*Jay One of the big things that would play into it for me is how you plan to set it. If it's going to be a solitare that I'd definitely go bigger (and for those of you who know me I'm sure this comes as no surprise ). But if you're planning on side stones or (gasp!) a halo or something like that then you might want to consider the smaller stone. Just my 2 cents...ETA: Doesn't Solange have an eye clean SI2? They do exist! Very good point about the setting of the stone Miss Dee. LOL, I keep thinking that we all know Solange's gorgeous rock is 4+ cts, but it's a good thing you pointed it out for anyone who isn't familiar with it. Thanks El!
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| Posted: 2/4/2008 8:52:25 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 8:58:42 PM | |
thing2of2 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,656 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 1/1/2007 |
I would definitely go for the bigger one, provided it was eyeclean and you felt comfortable wearing it. If it's not eye clean, I'd go for the smaller one. You've probably already looked into this, but can you find a 3ish carat that is maybe a D or E SI1 and split the difference? If you're not planning to upgrade and you liked the look of a 3 carat, I wouldn't go below a 3 carat...tell your future fiance that he'll have to get used to the size on you!  And educate him about the phenomena of DSS...Diamond Shrinkage Syndrome!
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| Posted: 2/4/2008 8:58:42 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 9:00:39 PM | |
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Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006 |
Date: 2/4/2008 8:52:25 PM Yeah, we who have been here awhile could probably rattle off the real rocks like the alphabet. But we must edumacate the youngins. Author: Dee*Jay LOL, I keep thinking that we all know Solange's gorgeous rock is 4+ cts, but it's a good thing you pointed it out for anyone who isn't familiar with it. Thanks El!
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| Posted: 2/4/2008 9:00:39 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 9:11:55 PM | |
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Minou Rough Rock Total Posts: 22 Last Post: 3/17/2008 Member Since: 12/17/2007 |
I plan to set it in a pave solitaire - probably from Leon Mege. Oh, decisions!! Part of me is hoping that I hear tomorrow that the 3.7 has a huge piece of carbon right under the table so that I can put it out of my mind!!
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| Posted: 2/4/2008 9:11:55 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 9:13:46 PM | |
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Minou Rough Rock Total Posts: 22 Last Post: 3/17/2008 Member Since: 12/17/2007 |
Oh, and no halo.
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| Posted: 2/4/2008 9:13:46 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 9:20:33 PM | |
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diamondseeker2006 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 17,609 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 1/11/2006 |
Oh, a Leon! How beautiful that will be! Now that I think about it, Harriet's ring is 3.6 carats in a Leon plain solitaire. I think she wears around a 5.5, too. She does live in NY City, though. http://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=68776&pageNo=6
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| Posted: 2/4/2008 9:20:33 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 9:27:32 PM | |
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Skippy123 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 19,822 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 11/24/2006 |
Date: 2/4/2008 9:11:55 PM Author: Minou I plan to set it in a pave solitaire - probably from Leon Mege. Oh, decisions!! Part of me is hoping that I hear tomorrow that the 3.7 has a huge piece of carbon right under the table so that I can put it out of my mind!! that would be gorgeous in pave!!!  Here is MysteryMan's gorgeous ring here his is 3 carats 
Skippy "The only things that stand between a person and what they want in life are the will to try it, and the faith to believe it's possible" Rich Devos |
| Posted: 2/4/2008 9:27:32 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 9:40:36 PM | |
ursulawrite Cut Rock Total Posts: 382 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 11/17/2004 |
If I was spending that much on a diamond, I would want F or above, and VS2 or above. Period. Of our circle of friends, the largest stone is worn by a woman whose husband is a partner at a top 5 law firm, while she is a general counsel. Her stone is a 3-carat round and I think it hits the mark insofar as remaining tasteful while still making an impact.
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| Posted: 2/4/2008 9:40:36 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 9:49:59 PM | |
diamondfan Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,996 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 6/17/2005 |
I agree with Skippy, that ring is lovely. Anyone can do a solitaire, not to insult it but it is sort of safe. I think Leon's pave work is just amazing. If you can carry it off, do so...that ring is elegant but has a little something extra.
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| Posted: 2/4/2008 9:49:59 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 9:52:10 PM | |
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diamondfan Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,996 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 6/17/2005 |
PS, 2.7 is a lovely size. Not to say shrinkage would never occur, but it is a great size and your finger size is not big, so it will look substantial.
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| Posted: 2/4/2008 9:52:10 PM | |
| P: 2/4/2008 9:53:56 PM | |
dreamer_dachsie Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,533 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 12/16/2007 |
What a lovely dilemma! I know it must not always feel that way to you though... an "approach-approach" conflict between two really great options can be aweful! But oh, in this case, what sweet misery!! hat said, you are going to have a gorgeous rock either way since you are looking at ideal cuts. But I ditto what so many others have said... the stone would need to be totally eye clean, totally, for me to love it, and at that size, probably higher in color than I might go with a smaller stone. Good luck, keep us updated I would love to drool over your pictures! DD  *** Dreamer *** |
| Posted: 2/4/2008 9:53:56 PM | |
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