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Don't know what to do...

P: 12/21/2007 1:42:54 PM
Chrono Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,281 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 4/22/2004	I've been wanting to upgrade my Jubilee for a few years now but had to hold back since they stopped cutting a while back. Well, I heard they are cutting again and I've been waiting for nearly 3 months now but there isn't any sign of a new shipment yet. I love the square shape with the sparkle of a round. It also has a decent 64% depth (compared to other cuts) so my 0.7ct Jube faces up like a 0.85ct stone (5.3 mm). So, I've been bad and toyed with the idea of other shapes, namely the square H&A and PoH. I love them but the 73% to 75% depths really put me off. I have to pay tons of $$$ to try to just hit the 6.0 mm mark whereas with a Jube, should one be available, I can easily reach the 6.5 mm mark. Then I mosied over to the RBs and gasp! For the same amount of money, I can get 7.0 mm stones!!! WTH! Easy choice, right? Not quite. No offense to RB lovers but there's something about a square outline that really catches my eye and makes RBs seem boring. However, I have to admit that I am now sorely tempted to get an RB just because I can get a humongous stone. Should I wait longer for a Jube (which I already have 2 red spinel side stones set aside) or start shopping for RBs?
Posted: 12/21/2007 1:42:54 PM

There are 109 replies to this message. There are 30 replies on this page.

P: 12/21/2007 1:47:49 PM
Gypsy Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,306 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 8/9/2005	I'd wait for the Jublilee. I really would. I love the depth on it (for exactly the same reason you do), and also adore the square shape. I WOULD do and try on some rounds in some stores though to see how I feel about them, however. Cause ya can't ignore the brillance and spread.
Posted: 12/21/2007 1:47:49 PM

P: 12/21/2007 1:55:42 PM
fleur-de-lis Ideal Rock Total Posts: 920 Last Post: 11/19/2009 Member Since: 4/25/2007	Hi Chrono; since upgrades typically do not have the time pressures that an ering typically do, it's probably wise to enjoy the time with your current stone and wait until the perfect stone comes along. (BTW, you have my sympathies; I am in love with the Flanders cut, and those are nearly impossible to find in large sizes as well. But if you love fancy cuts in the square family... well let's just say the numbers of a round can capture your mind, but it's very likely that fancies are what takes your heart.) -fdl
Posted: 12/21/2007 1:55:42 PM

P: 12/21/2007 3:30:47 PM
:) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,864 Last Post: 6/1/2009 Member Since: 7/25/2006	Wait! -I think you love Jubes so much that you will be sorry if you compromise just to speed up the process (or get a bigger stone!!)
Posted: 12/21/2007 3:30:47 PM

P: 12/21/2007 3:51:47 PM
lyra Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,761 Last Post: 11/19/2009 Member Since: 7/13/2007	I agree, I think you'd end up disappointed with the RB when you love the square shape so much. Patience? DSS will set in with a RB too, and then you won't even have the shape you want.
Posted: 12/21/2007 3:51:47 PM

P: 12/21/2007 4:32:18 PM
Addy Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,915 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 10/20/2007	I'd wait since you like the Jubilee so much.
Posted: 12/21/2007 4:32:18 PM

P: 12/21/2007 4:55:38 PM
strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003	I think you answered your own question... wait.. Have you talked to Jon about having them custom cut you one? ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K
Posted: 12/21/2007 4:55:38 PM

P: 12/21/2007 6:05:45 PM
sera Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,086 Last Post: 5/22/2008 Member Since: 6/28/2007	I was looking for a Jubilee with the same problem... there were none and I absolutely did not want a round (no offense)! I could have waited, but I didn't want to and went with the PoH (mine has a 72% depth). I LOVE LOVE LOVE the square shape and the amazing fire and sparkle... it's noticeably square to the average person (which I am thrilled with and nobody has called it a princess {one thought I meant it was a princess when I said the name but I corrected her lol}) and everyone comments on the fire and sparkle. It's different and (like PS members demand of their diamonds) WAY above average in quality! I am very happy with my decision. Had mine been an upgrade, maybe I would have been willing to wait for a slightly less deep stone, but this one just felt like The One. However, I was not really set on a certain mm size. Since you are, I would either try to find a PoH or Sq.H&A that is less deep and hits that mark or just wait for another Jube. If you feel like you are settling, you may regret not waiting. (The PoH is more the shape of the Jubilee, but I think I remember Jon or someone saying that IRL the Sq.H&A looks more sq. than in the pics where it looks like a very rounded square). Why not call Jon and ask when they expect more Jubilees? Whether you wait for a Jube or shop for a RB is up to you... which is more important to you, the shape or the size? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ May you live all the days of your life. -Swift
Posted: 12/21/2007 6:05:45 PM

P: 12/21/2007 6:13:32 PM
Kaleigh Ideal Rock Total Posts: 25,895 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 11/18/2004	I'd wait for the Jubilee, you're a jubilee girl at heart. Don't think a round is going to do it for you long term. Hopefully one will come along sooner than later. I think they are gorgeous!! ____________________________ Piece of cake and a candle. ng gift
Posted: 12/21/2007 6:13:32 PM

P: 12/21/2007 6:33:39 PM
mrssalvo Ideal Rock Total Posts: 16,856 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 1/3/2005	Date: 12/21/2007 6:13:32 PM Author: Kaleigh I'd wait for the Jubilee, you're a jubilee girl at heart. Don't think a round is going to do it for you long term. Hopefully one will come along sooner than later. I think they are gorgeous!! ditto.... ----------------------------- A deal is only a deal if you are getting exactly what you want.
Posted: 12/21/2007 6:33:39 PM

P: 12/21/2007 9:04:04 PM
NeverEndingUpgrade Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,536 Last Post: 11/14/2009 Member Since: 10/3/2007	I just got my hands on a 1.05 ct. Jubilee, paid way more for it than I budgeted for, and don't regret the decision one bit (now- trying to buy groceries is a challenge, but.....).
Posted: 12/21/2007 9:04:04 PM

P: 12/26/2007 7:58:39 AM
Chrono Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,281 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 4/22/2004	Date: 12/21/2007 4:55:38 PM Author: strmrdr I think you answered your own question... wait.. Have you talked to Jon about having them custom cut you one? Storm, Are you saying Jon can have them custom cut one? To all the others, Thanks for reminding me not to settle. Still, it has been very hard to wait when there's diamonds and sales going on everywhere. Yes, I don't think I'll be happy with a round in the long term. I've already talked to Jon but even he has no idea when the next shipment of Jubilees will come in.
Posted: 12/26/2007 7:58:39 AM

P: 12/26/2007 9:20:46 AM
Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,212 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005	Date: 12/21/2007 6:33:39 PM Author: mrssalvo Date: 12/21/2007 6:13:32 PM Author: Kaleigh I'd wait for the Jubilee, you're a jubilee girl at heart. Don't think a round is going to do it for you long term. Hopefully one will come along sooner than later. I think they are gorgeous!! ditto.... Thritto, I know it is hard, but wait for what you know will make you happy in the long run, your Jube will come along when the time is right! Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn
Posted: 12/26/2007 9:20:46 AM

P: 12/28/2007 9:58:25 AM
Chrono Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,281 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 4/22/2004	I've been very bad again. I've been eyeing a particular stone on GOG which is well within my budget. Due to possible stone snatchers, I will not post any information about the stone other than I adore it because it is 7mm, looks like a killer stone and has medium blue fluoro. How am I to resist this stone when I adore diamonds with blue fluoro and I've always wanted one? It's too early to even call GOG to ask about it but man, I'm really tempted.
Posted: 12/28/2007 9:58:25 AM

P: 12/28/2007 10:06:34 AM
Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,212 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005	Why not order the diamond in a temp setting and see what you think of it..? That way you will know whether this is IT, or to hold out for the Jube. Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn
Posted: 12/28/2007 10:06:34 AM

P: 12/28/2007 10:28:44 AM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	Date: 12/28/2007 10:06:34 AM Author: Lorelei Why not order the diamond in a temp setting and see what you think of it..? That way you will know whether this is IT, or to hold out for the Jube. I agree. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 12/28/2007 10:28:44 AM

P: 12/28/2007 10:37:50 AM
Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,212 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005	Date: 12/28/2007 10:28:44 AM Author: Ellen Date: 12/28/2007 10:06:34 AM Author: Lorelei Why not order the diamond in a temp setting and see what you think of it..? That way you will know whether this is IT, or to hold out for the Jube. I agree. Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn
Posted: 12/28/2007 10:37:50 AM

P: 12/28/2007 10:40:07 AM
Chrono Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,281 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 4/22/2004	Are you ladies trying to enable me?
Posted: 12/28/2007 10:40:07 AM

P: 12/28/2007 10:45:55 AM
Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,212 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005	Date: 12/28/2007 10:40:07 AM Author: Chrono Are you ladies trying to enable me? maybe.... Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn
Posted: 12/28/2007 10:45:55 AM

P: 12/28/2007 10:49:24 AM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	Date: 12/28/2007 10:45:55 AM Author: Lorelei Date: 12/28/2007 10:40:07 AM Author: Chrono Are you ladies trying to enable me? maybe.... YES. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 12/28/2007 10:49:24 AM

P: 12/28/2007 10:54:19 AM
Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,212 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005	Date: 12/28/2007 10:49:24 AM Author: Ellen Date: 12/28/2007 10:45:55 AM Author: Lorelei Date: 12/28/2007 10:40:07 AM Author: Chrono Are you ladies trying to enable me? maybe.... YES. Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn
Posted: 12/28/2007 10:54:19 AM

P: 12/28/2007 10:58:26 AM
aljdewey Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,236 Last Post: 2/11/2008 Member Since: 11/25/2002	I guess I'm going to be the dissenting voice on this one because I'd absolutely trade the jube for a round right now. Your present jube isn't thrilling you due to lack of size.....period. I don't see this as an either/or (either get a round or wait for a large jube); I feel like you can do BOTH. Get the larger round now and wear it while you wait for a larger jube. You get more size now AND a chance at the larger jube when it's available. This also gives you an opportunity to find out if you really would miss the jube shape. If you do, you can always trade the round in for the larger jube. Win-win all the way around. _____________________ Note: Chainsaw Not Sold Separately.
Posted: 12/28/2007 10:58:26 AM

P: 12/28/2007 11:01:29 AM
Skippy123 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 19,821 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 11/24/2006	Date: 12/28/2007 10:58:26 AM Author: aljdewey I guess I'm going to be the dissenting voice on this one. It seems that your present jube isn't thrilling you due to lack of size, so trading it seems the right thing to do. Why wait with your smaller jube when you could upgrade to the round stone now and then trade that back in when a larger jube becomes available? That's what I'd do. This also gives you an opportunity to find out if you really would miss the jube shape. Oooooo, brilliant idea Alj!!! That is what I would do Chrono, I am sorry they don't have any in yet; I have been thinking about you and your lovely jub! Skippy "The only things that stand between a person and what they want in life are the will to try it, and the faith to believe it's possible" Rich Devos
Posted: 12/28/2007 11:01:29 AM

P: 12/28/2007 11:08:43 AM
Chrono Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,281 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 4/22/2004	I tried very hard to look at the PoH and square H&A cushions but they are so deep that I'm paying a few thousand $$ just to get an increase of anywhere from 0.3 mm to 0.7 mm, which is terribly disappointing. With the round, I can get an increase of 1.7 mm for the same price! I also saw this cute little traditional modern style cushion. Very nice but a wee too small. I'm wonder if I should go this route? This bugger has a decent 66% depth, tiny 59% table and fantastic 17% crown height. What do you think? Should I ask Jon to find me a modern cushion?
Posted: 12/28/2007 11:08:43 AM

P: 12/28/2007 11:13:16 AM
Chrono Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,281 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 4/22/2004	Alj, I did think about that too. Get the round now, then wait for the jube. Or I could get a cushion (since I found out that GOG has included modern cushions to their lifetime upgrade policy). I am so partial to square shapes so bit of good news like this perked me up. Then I wondered again if the cushion will ever stand up to an RB in the sparkle deparment.
Posted: 12/28/2007 11:13:16 AM

P: 12/28/2007 11:15:25 AM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	Date: 12/28/2007 10:58:26 AM Author: aljdewey I guess I'm going to be the dissenting voice on this one because I'd absolutely trade the jube for a round right now. Your present jube isn't thrilling you due to lack of size.....period. I don't see this as an either/or (either get a round or wait for a large jube); I feel like you can do BOTH. Get the larger round now and wear it while you wait for a larger jube. You get more size now AND a chance at the larger jube when it's available. This also gives you an opportunity to find out if you really would miss the jube shape. If you do, you can always trade the round in for the larger jube. Win-win all the way around. This is exactly what I've wanted to post, but didn't. I guess I felt like I might be swaying your decision.... Plus there were all those people telling you to hold out. I feared for my life. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 12/28/2007 11:15:25 AM

P: 12/28/2007 11:16:50 AM
Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,212 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005	I would see about the round then as Alj says, you can wear it and enjoy the larger size, as soon as the larger Jubes come in, you can nab one. As for the cushions, as you know they are a different animal to the round, but gorgeous in their own right, if it is size and sparkle you are really craving, I would shoot for the round so you can experience it and then you will know exactly which way to go. Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn
Posted: 12/28/2007 11:16:50 AM

P: 12/28/2007 11:28:29 AM
Chrono Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,281 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 4/22/2004	I've had rounds before for my e-ring and upgraded it various times until I finally found my true love: an EC. Since I am partial to square shapes, I was hooked by the Jubes because it has the square shape but RB sparkle, hence it became my first RHR. I'm certainly experienced in knowing what to expect from rounds; I want the best of both worlds; size and sparkle and a square shape. Not too much to ask for, right? I guess it's now between an RB and a modern cushion. I wonder how the modern cushion will match up to the RB. The Idealscope showed so much light leakage... Ellen, You should know by now that dissention is perfectly acceptable here. No one will hang you by the hocks for going against the majority. To bring back a sensitive topic, like the aqua recut, maybe it isn't what I wanted to hear, but it's always good to hear from that tiny squeaking mouse. Sometimes, we just don't see the obvious solution. In any case, you are just too sweet for anyone to jump on you. If anyone on PS threatens to hang you upside down by your toes, I'll be there to rescue you with my keyboard.
Posted: 12/28/2007 11:28:29 AM

P: 12/28/2007 11:32:14 AM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	Date: 12/28/2007 11:28:29 AM Author: Chrono I've had rounds before for my e-ring and upgraded it various times until I finally found my true love: an EC. Since I am partial to square shapes, I was hooked by the Jubes because it has the square shape but RB sparkle, hence it became my first RHR. I'm certainly experienced in knowing what to expect from rounds; I want the best of both worlds; size and sparkle and a square shape. Not too much to ask for, right? I guess it's now between an RB and a modern cushion. I wonder how the modern cushion will match up to the RB. The Idealscope showed so much light leakage... Ellen, You should know by now that dissention is perfectly acceptable here. No one will hang you by the hocks for going against the majority. To bring back a sensitive topic, like the aqua recut, maybe it isn't what I wanted to hear, but it's always good to hear from that tiny squeaking mouse. Sometimes, we just don't see the obvious solution. I'm sure Jon would do a video for ya.... And thanks Chrono. I really didn't pipe up more for the fact that I just wanted you to make up your own mind. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 12/28/2007 11:32:14 AM

P: 12/28/2007 11:41:15 AM
aljdewey Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,236 Last Post: 2/11/2008 Member Since: 11/25/2002	Date: 12/28/2007 11:15:25 AM Author: Ellen This is exactly what I've wanted to post, but didn't. I guess I felt like I might be swaying your decision.... Plus there were all those people telling you to hold out. I feared for my life. I'm not a-scared! LOL The Chainsaw boldly goes where no other dares. LMAO! I guess I worry a bit less about swaying one's decision when they're actively asking for opinions, so I hope you know it's just an opinion, Chrono. I'm sure you'll determine what feels right for you. _____________________ Note: Chainsaw Not Sold Separately.
Posted: 12/28/2007 11:41:15 AM

P: 12/28/2007 12:07:58 PM
esumsea Cut Rock Total Posts: 144 Last Post: 10/4/2008 Member Since: 8/28/2007	My 2 cents, wait for what you really seem to want. It is always worth the wait. GOOD LUCK! To assume makes an ass out of u and me
Posted: 12/28/2007 12:07:58 PM

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