$1,000 - $150,000 Sapphire engagement ring

Date: 10/31/2007 10:51:43 AM
Author:ER_Doc_Mike
Please help a complete newbie to the sapphire world to pick out a blue rock in a metal ring for his beloved!

I'd like a light blue sapphire, possibly with diamonds embedded in the ring. Not a 3-stone setting though. The love of my life is quite small (5'4', 115 lb) and as such, I wouldn't want a huge stone which is going to look too big on her.

Question 1: given that money is no object, what carat size should I be looking at? 2 carats? 20 carats?

I went to van Cleef & Arpels and Cartier in downtown Chicago yesterday, and have decided that what I'd really like is a roundish cut. I don't think the emerald or cushion cuts would flatter her features quite as much.

As for money (subject line!), the stone I buy must be reasonable value for money. 'How much would you like to spend?' is, in my humble opinion, a loaded question. As long as I'm paying a reasonable amount based on market prices for similar stones, and am not being grossly overcharged, I'll be happy.

That depends on your girl.  Does she like more flash or something more subtle??? 

Question 2: regarding the premium that the downtown Chicago stores charge for their stones, is that reasonable? What benefits does one receive for the premium?

I've also looked online at the Natural Sapphire Company.

Question 3: if NSC self-grades one of their own stones as 'IF' or 'VVS2', how reliable is that? Is it possible to get the stone re-certified using GIA, etc?

Question 4: Is NSC reputable? What other internet sites would you say were reliable for big gem purchases? Do you have a bricks & mortar, physical store that you recommend or is recognised to be very respectable? I am prepared to travel out-of-state and even internationally to get this ring.

Question 5: What are the pros and cons of buying a stone and ring separately, as opposed to buying a pre-set ring?

You could have Leon Mege design the ring which would be gorgeous and well crafted or Mark Morrell.

Question 6: Who is 'Wink'? I saw this individual referred to in another post.
http://www.winkjones.com/  owner of Winfield's
Question 7: van Cleef and Arpels yesterday made a big deal about their $91,000 2.6 carat sapphire because it was sourced from Kashmir. Does geographical origin really matter?

Question 8: What are typical bargaining parameters? Should I expect to pay the marked price, or 5% below it, or 25%, etc?

Thank you so much in advance for your responses. I'm getting excited just thinking about it!

Date: 10/31/2007 10:51:43 AM
Author:ER_Doc_Mike
Please help a complete newbie to the sapphire world to pick out a blue rock in a metal ring for his beloved!

I'd like a light blue sapphire, possibly with diamonds embedded in the ring. Not a 3-stone setting though. The love of my life is quite small (5'4', 115 lb) and as such, I wouldn't want a huge stone which is going to look too big on her.

Question 1: given that money is no object, what carat size should I be looking at? 2 carats? 20 carats?
Well, the size depends upon personal taste.  I find something around 2 to 3 carats tasteful.  Any larger, and my finger cannot pull it off.  I'm probably close to your GF's size.  On the other hand, there are others here who are about the same size as well but are able to carry off larger 4 to 5 carats gemstones.

I went to van Cleef & Arpels and Cartier in downtown Chicago yesterday, and have decided that what I'd really like is a roundish cut. I don't think the emerald or cushion cuts would flatter her features quite as much.
Round cut gemstones brings out the best brilliance.  A good choice, especially in sapphires.

As for money (subject line!), the stone I buy must be reasonable value for money. 'How much would you like to spend?' is, in my humble opinion, a loaded question. As long as I'm paying a reasonable amount based on market prices for similar stones, and am not being grossly overcharged, I'll be happy.
Absolutely, this is the right way of thinking.

Question 2: regarding the premium that the downtown Chicago stores charge for their stones, is that reasonable? What benefits does one receive for the premium?
Sorry, I have no idea.

I've also looked online at the Natural Sapphire Company.
NSC is a good place to start your search.  I would also try:
Wink of www.winkjones.com 
Gary Dutton of www.diamondexpert.com
Barbara of www.acstones.com
Jeff White of www.whitesgems.com
Lembeck Gems in NYC: LembeckGems@msn.com

Question 3: if NSC self-grades one of their own stones as 'IF' or 'VVS2', how reliable is that? Is it possible to get the stone re-certified using GIA, etc?
I remember an older post here on Pricescope where a PScoper was looking to buy a VS stone but the inclusion was obvious to the naked eye.  Not a common occurance but something to keep in the back of your mind.  I would suggest having an independent appraiser to check out the stone of your choice before final acceptance.

Question 4: Is NSC reputable? What other internet sites would you say were reliable for big gem purchases? Do you have a bricks & mortar, physical store that you recommend or is recognised to be very respectable? I am prepared to travel out-of-state and even internationally to get this ring.
Answered at Question 2.

Question 5: What are the pros and cons of buying a stone and ring separately, as opposed to buying a pre-set ring?
I much prefer to buy an unset stone, then pick out the setting of my choice.  It is difficult as it is to purchase a coloured gemstone:  a person has to consider the cutting quality (extinction, windowing, facet points, etc.), the colour (saturation, tone, hue, zoning, etc.) and clarity and size.  Unset gemstones are also much easier to access unset.

Question 6: Who is 'Wink'? I saw this individual referred to in another post.
Refered to in my answer to Question 2.  He sourced 2 dreamy velvety yet electric blue sapphire sidestones for my right hand ring.

Question 7: van Cleef and Arpels yesterday made a big deal about their $91,000 2.6 carat sapphire because it was sourced from Kashmir. Does geographical origin really matter?
Yes, and no.  Kashmir is know for that velvety electric blue sapphires.  However, one can also get lousy blue sapphires from that region (although I'm 100% VCA sells top notch stuff so it's most likely to be the nice sapphires.)  It is also possible to get sapphires with the Kashimir look from elsewhere without the Kashmir pricetag.  It all depends on what bragging rights you are after.

Question 8: What are typical bargaining parameters? Should I expect to pay the marked price, or 5% below it, or 25%, etc?
It doesn't hurt to ask the vendor for a discount.  Pricing all depends on the treatment (or lack of - but heat treatment is acceptable, all others aren't), colour, cutting, size, and clarity and rarity (which is a factor of all that were mentioned), and to a certain degree, its pedigree (country of origin).  AND also, the vendor's markup.  Online vendors probably have the least markup.

Thank you so much in advance for your responses. I'm getting excited just thinking about it!

Date: 10/31/2007 7:50:37 PM
Author: Ninama

I know this isn't what have in mind, but I love this circa 1935 VC&A diamond (2.2 ct) and sapphire ring....

Date: 11/1/2007 11:09:54 AM
Author: ER_Doc_Mike


Wow, Ninama! Where is this from?

Date: 11/1/2007 8:47:00 PM
Author: widget
I bought a beautiful unheated Burma Sapphire from Cherrypicked... Robert at www.preciousgemstones.com might be another good source.

While doing the hunting yourself can be fun, I've been really impressed with the gems that Leon Mege has sourced for his clients. If I were you, I'd be tempted to let him do the stone hunting, and then have him mount it.

widget

PS: I was just thinking...If I had a huge budget, I'd be sorely tempted to look for an authentic old mine certified Kashmir Sapphire....particularly if it performed like they are fabled to perform (Soft glow with little extinction). One way to get a feel for what they're selling for is to check out auction results at Sotheby's, Christies, etc.