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 Another dog symptom question!

P:  10/19/2007 3:15:36 PM  
musey
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My poor dog is having a rough week.

We boarded him for three days/two nights this past weekend, at a nice facility where we felt he'd be happy and safe. It's the first time we've boarded or even taken him to daycare (he's 18 months old).

From the moment we got him back, he's seemed a little sick. He was shivering a bit on and off the first 24 hours (Monday) and then stopped. It was abnormally cold in LA that day/night, so I figured he just wasn't used to the temp. He's been snoring some at night--and making snoring sounds even when he's awake! This is new, and not normal for his breed.

His biggest symptom is this forced exhale thing, almost like wheezing. He's always done this occasionally, while drinking or when overly excited, so at first I didn't think much of it. But this week he's been doing it quite a bit, and under non-normal-for-him circumstances (waking up during the night having wheezing attacks, etc.).


Anyway I was reading about kennel cough thinking that may be it, but the incubation (no symptoms) time is supposed to be 8-10 days, and this was immediate. Also, it's not a cough or a hack--a wheeze.

Any idea what could be up? We like to watch him a bit and ask around before going to the vet, as his visits usually end up costing us minimum $50 (and we've been alarmist in the past, so he's averaged 1 vet visit per month minimum).

And because I know PSers love pics, here's the sicky puppy:


Posted:  10/19/2007 3:15:36 PM

 There are 28 replies to this message.  There are 28 replies on this page.

P: 10/19/2007 3:31:53 PM
happyfeet1988
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I hate to tell you this, but it does sound like kennel cough. My dog had it when he was a puppy, and it was more of a wheeze than anything. It also could be a respiratory infection or something like that. I really would take him to the vet, because a dog wheezing isn't normal, so you're not being too paranoid.

Posted:  10/19/2007 3:31:53 PM
P: 10/19/2007 3:34:59 PM
musey
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Date: 10/19/2007 3:31:53 PM
Author: happyfeet1988

I hate to tell you this, but it does sound like kennel cough. My dog had it when he was a puppy, and it was more of a wheeze than anything. It also could be a respiratory infection or something like that. I really would take him to the vet, because a dog wheezing isn't normal, so you're not being too paranoid.

The reason we haven't is that, like I said, he's done it his entire life, he's just doing it more now. The vet said that wheezing while excited or drinking too quickly is normal for his breed.

So it could still be kennel cough, regardless of the fact that it skipped the entire incubation period?


ETA: The other advice we've heard/seen on kennel cough is that it clears up on its own in the majority of cases... is this incorrect? (re: advising a vet visit)

Posted:  10/19/2007 3:34:59 PM
P: 10/19/2007 4:26:51 PM
DivaDiamond007
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It sounds like kennel cough to me. One of my mom's dogs has it right now and the poor little girl is wheezing like you wouldn't believe. My mom did some research online and found out that kennel cough generally goes away on its own, but if it is really bad a chid's dose of regular Robatussin (or generic) can help allieviate the symptoms. If the cough persists then a vet visit is recommended to rule out other illnesses.

Is the "forced exhale" actually a sneeze? I don't remember the term, but one of my pugs had this snorty thing going on once (more than her usual snorts) and so off we went to the vet. She was sneezing backwards or something - I really wish I could remember the term. All in all, it ended up being nothing to worry about and it went away after a few days.

I hope the little one starts feeling better soon. Give her some pug hugs and kisses for me!

~Jess~

Posted:  10/19/2007 4:26:51 PM
P: 10/19/2007 4:33:36 PM
musey
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Thanks DD! We'll have to look into the kid's robitussin thing. Do you know how long qualifies as "persisting" for these symptoms? It's been only 5.5 days so far. It usually takes me much longer to get over a cold than that, so I know it's probably not "too long" yet...?

Posted:  10/19/2007 4:33:36 PM
P: 10/19/2007 4:40:33 PM
Mara
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when portia had kc it was a hacking cough and then it would culminate in a super big hack but nothing would come out (yeah appealing huh). she did it so much that i was afraid her throat was raw and making it worse (like when we have a cough and air makes us cough more) so i started spoon feeding her honey after she'd hack for a while. it seemed to help, but really it just had to heal on it's own. we did get the vaccination after she got over it, but it's no 'guarantee' and you have to do it like once a year i think. but she hasn't gotten it since then (knock on wood). but i don't think she had shivers or anything like that. and she wasn't really wheezing. maybe it depends on the size of the dog and their windpipe/trachea?

the other thing is that in spring and fall, especially fall, portia gets allergies just like we do. so sometimes her nose runs, she sneezes a lot and she'll wheeze a little when sleeping or similar. so it could be just allergies for change of season possibly?

one thing the vet always tells us is that if she is running, playing, eating, drinking, acting normal...don't worry so much about it and see how it progresses over a few days. if she isn't eating or is lethargic, won't drink water or any of the 'big' changes, then def make an appt to take her in.

good luck and what a super CUTE picture!!

________________________________

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

-Albert Einstein

Posted:  10/19/2007 4:40:33 PM
P: 10/19/2007 4:49:35 PM
musey
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Thanks Mara! I wonder if it could be allergies??

When he wheezes, it's through his nose. His mouth is always closed, and I can hear that sort of rattle of mucous (like when a person has a stuffy nose and sniffles). So it's not a dry-anything, it seems like an excess of phlegm. That makes me think maybe it is allergies?

He really is acting completely normally otherwise... a little more tired during the day than usual, but I think it's because he can't get a good night's sleep with his wheezing attacks.

Posted:  10/19/2007 4:49:35 PM
P: 10/19/2007 4:51:21 PM
AGBF
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I agree that it sounds as if he has kennel cough. We adopted our dog when he was two. He started to socialize with two dogs that belonged to a friend and promptly got kennel cough. None of us had ever thought that either of my friend's dogs appeared to have kennel cough, but apparently socializing with new dogs can cause it. I have no scientific explanation for the incubation period!

Deborah

A Girl's Best Friend

Posted:  10/19/2007 4:51:21 PM
P: 10/19/2007 5:15:07 PM
musey
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Thanks for your reply, Deborah!

Posted:  10/19/2007 5:15:07 PM
P: 10/19/2007 5:18:46 PM
bee*
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it definitely sounds like kennel cough. It can start with wheezing and then end up with a full on hacking cough like Mara described. Most of the cases that we get in are ones that have come straight from kennels.

Posted:  10/19/2007 5:18:46 PM
P: 10/19/2007 5:21:33 PM
musey
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Date: 10/19/2007 5:18:46 PM
Author: bee*
it definitely sounds like kennel cough. It can start with wheezing and then end up with a full on hacking cough like Mara described. Most of the cases that we get in are ones that have come straight from kennels.

Thanks for replying, bee! Does your office usually recommend letting it run its course, or setting up an appointment to get an antibiotics (or otherwise) prescription?

Posted:  10/19/2007 5:21:33 PM
P: 10/19/2007 6:11:25 PM
door knob solitaire
door knob solitaire

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Can't tell you anything about KC, fortunately I have no experience with it.

One of my girls had something this spring.  Actually I thought she had something stuck in her throat.  She was ...taking in air or/blowing air forcibly.  Sorta a vacuum noise but loud like a cough would be.  Took her to vet and he just laughed.  He said your baby has allergies.  HUH?  She is lowering her head to the ground and that big ol nose is sucking in all sorts of stuff.  Said it would pass.  And it did.  We give her local honey everyday to boost her immunity.

I would like to point out your little one has been through a traumatic experience.  You took him to a place and left.  He had no idea you were coming back.  There were other dogs yakking constantly.  He got no measure of rest.  His eyes may have closed but when a strange dog begins to bark, your baby woke up to hear the conversation or be part of it.  He was there all alone no one or nothing familiar.

The shivers are more than likely his nerves.  This was his first time to be left.  It is going to take some time to recover.  My first dog NEVER was the same after a 2 week stay at the finest kennel in town.  It took her months...to sleep peaceful.  She shivered and quivered even while in my arms.  It was like shell shock from the war.  I realize this is hard to hear.  But if one reader reads this and has an alternative to boarding...I so hope they will take it.  Some dogs can't take it.  We swore we would NEVER board again.  And we haven't.  Marriages and births and family reunions we have missed out on.  Vacations we no longer take.  I do regret missing some of those milestone events...but I wouldn't change my decision for anything. 

The best advice has already been given.  Spend the $50 and have the dog checked just in case everyone is right on the KC.  As for the shivers.  Try to carry him and bed him and talk to him even spare minute you have.  Take him in the bath when you shower.  Try to let him see as much of you as possible.  You are going to have to build up his trust again.

DKS

Posted:  10/19/2007 6:11:25 PM
P: 10/19/2007 6:21:14 PM
door knob solitaire
door knob solitaire

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MORE THOUGHTS:  A kennel has all sorts of new smells and dogs have dander and there are cats and well it is a alphabet soup of allergens.  I just re read your description and it is what mine had.  If it were a cough...or a hack...or a sneeze you would have used that word to describe it.

But instead you are saying a forced air noise.  I just spoke to hubby and he corrected me...ours wasn't a vacuum sound it was a blower sound.  Like what you would do if a tiny gnat flew up your nose.  An exhale.

Call your vet and describe the noise...I bet allergies may be what he says.  The kennel may have had fans and it blew over one dander rich fur and was breathed in by yours.

Also...the stress of the stay may have lessened his defense to such things.  His sleep and food has a lot to do with immunity just like yours does.

DKS

Posted:  10/19/2007 6:21:14 PM
P: 10/19/2007 6:45:00 PM
musey
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Date: 10/19/2007 6:11:25 PM
Author: door knob solitaire

I would like to point out your little one has been through a traumatic experience. You took him to a place and left. He had no idea you were coming back. There were other dogs yakking constantly. He got no measure of rest. His eyes may have closed but when a strange dog begins to bark, your baby woke up to hear the conversation or be part of it. He was there all alone no one or nothing familiar.

The shivers are more than likely his nerves. This was his first time to be left. It is going to take some time to recover.

We took every precaution to make sure his boarding experience would be a good one. He's an unbelievably adaptable dog, and doesn't get easily upset by anything. He's been "left" many times, just not at a boarding facility before. We got him used to it at a young age. He's spent two weeks at parents' houses (without us) three separate times, and 5 or 6 separate "overnights" with friends.

This was the first time we had absolutely no alternative to boarding, because all of our go-to dogwatchers were with us on our trip. We visited 3 of the top boarding facilities in LA county before settling on this one. He wasn't just dropped off at boarding this past weekend, he spent the two weeks prior doing both short and extended daytime visits, both with and without us present, so that he'd know it was a temporary situation. He also finished out the weekend with a complete "report card" from the staff, saying that he did unbelievably well while he was there and detailing his interactions and behavior.

He slept straight through every night after picking him up until the last two, and has 100% of every day with me (we planned it so I wouldn't have work this week).

Sorry if I come off as defensive, but we are extremely conscientious pet parents, and I get a little hurt if others seem to have assumed otherwise.


Anyway, like I said, we like to watch him and ask around regarding his symptoms before (not in lieu of) visiting the vet in case it's obviously nothing serious. Our vet doesn't offer free advice over the phone (or anything free, for that matter--that's LA for ya ... last time we went in for a health certificate to fly it cost us $85 for the 2-minute checkup), so that has proven to be the best thing for us before booking an appointment.

Posted:  10/19/2007 6:45:00 PM
P: 10/19/2007 7:19:51 PM
VegasAngel
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Oh my goodness that picture is just adorable.

I think DKS pretty much summed it up. Take your dog to the vet just to be on the safe side. There are a lot of variables here.  Boarding can be very stressful for animals & your dog may be reacting to it. Could be early symptoms of kennel cough which is very common no matter how clean the facility. If it is KC there is nothing the vet can do but give you a prescription cough suppression to ease symptoms & let it run it's course. There is a chance your dog picked up another type of infection which is why you should get him vet checked.  Maybe your dog has allergies or is reacting to the chemicals they use to clean/disinfect the facility?  Poor baby I hope he gets back to normal quick.     

"Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly." GK Chesterton

Posted:  10/19/2007 7:19:51 PM
P: 10/19/2007 7:35:20 PM
musey
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Thanks for replying, VegasAngel!

Posted:  10/19/2007 7:35:20 PM
P: 10/19/2007 9:02:53 PM
Dogmom
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Musey, What an adorable picture!!

I don't have a LOT of experience with kennel cough, but I do seem to remember it does cause a very distinct *cough* in the patient, rather than a wheeze.  One thought I had, though, was that most boarding facilities require your pet to be up-to-date on all vaccines, including bordatella.  Did the vet include that in his latest round of vaccinations?

I know exactly how you feel about wanting to make sure he's fine, but not wanting to over-react.  I hope your munchkin feels better very soon!!

"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened." ~ Anatole France

Posted:  10/19/2007 9:02:53 PM
P: 10/19/2007 11:47:06 PM
door knob solitaire
door knob solitaire

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Sweetie...I am glad you did take planning and precautions ahead of time.  That was most intuitive and as you said you did everything you could have done. I have never known anyone to take that much preparation. You should be commended for that.  
 
To form my opinion this is what I given to understand...
"It's the first time we've boarded or even taken him to daycare (he's 18 months old)."
If the interpretation of my assumption offended you I apologize.  Sincerely.

You had three issues...one shivers...and one a kacking noise...one odd snoring coupled with the first time you've boarded or EVEN taken him to daycare.  Any logical summary would tie the boarding with the issues.

Now my offending assumption WAS- as responsible of pet owners as you are...you realize that a shiver can mean serious fever just like that of a child.  If climate or environment was not to blame...what could be?  I assumed you had not seen it previously.  (It was my experience the boarding caused our dogs quivers-hence my comments on boarding.  And it was the shivers of your dog that got me frazzled.)  That coupled with the KACK prompted you to post on this forum, for answers.  There was also the fact of snoring...which indicates lack of sleep...a swelling in the passage ways from over use...or an issue in breathing.  So it was my understanding that you knew it was not normal...and yet it wasn't serious enough to warrant a vet appointment.  You knew your dog wasn't seriously sick...that was obvious...(or you would have gotten an appointment ASAP-emergency center if need be.  You just spent 2 weeks familiarizing your dog with a boarding facility)  I assumed the reason for your post was you just couldn't figure out the elements involved in the symptoms. 

Putting your offense aside (and I hope you can...cause I wuv you), wouldn't you agree a stay in the home of your familiar parents/friends is different that a stay in a kennel in a boarding house?  Your parents home was quite after 10 o'clock...that was not the case in the boarding facility-the noise octives were a tad different.  Your pups freedom was not the same in both experiences.  Don't you agree?  We have to understand the psyche of dogs and know that they are territorial. The sounds and scents and odors are SOOO offensive to dogs.  They communicate so much through these sensories.  No amount of prepardedness will make it the same as a home...any home...friend or family. 

My beloved pet experienced sensory overload.  And it is my opinion and still is... even having learned of all your preparation...that your dog did as well. 

Again kuddos, applause, standing ovation for your prepardedness.   I am sorry I offended you, sincerely.

DKS



Posted:  10/19/2007 11:47:06 PM
P: 10/20/2007 12:30:05 AM
NewEnglandLady
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Such a cute pup, love him!

The wheezing is completely normal for kennel cough and since this was his first stay at a kennel, it seems extremely likely that KC is the culprit. Unfortunately the KC vaccines only work on very few strains. Our pup started going to doggy daycare when he was right at a year old. What's the first thing that happened? He got KC and naturally I was concerned because at that time I thought the KC vaccine prevented dogs from getting it and I thought he was really sick. Took him to the vet, was told it was kennel cough and when the doggy daycare owner came to pick Byron up the next day, she informed me that nearly every dog she has introduced to the playgroup has contracted KC, then that's it, they don't usually get it again unless they pick up another strain from somewhere else.

I think your pup will be perfectly fine, though obviously if the wheezing hasn't improved over the weekend, you may need to tak her in case she needs something for her throat.

Posted:  10/20/2007 12:30:05 AM
P: 10/20/2007 11:32:25 AM
Lorelei
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I have had dogs with kennel cough in the past and it is usually a fairly messy and noisy business.  There is a vaccine available now which is normally administered intranasally ( up the nose) - although if it is KC then it won't help on this occasion.  It may or may not be that which is wrong with him, keep a very close eye on him, if he seems worse then take him to the vet as soon as you can.  It could also be allergies or related issues in the throat/ chest area, if he is having trouble breathing at any time, then that is a true emergency and you will need the vet.

Good informative link on kennel cough.

http://www.thepetcenter.com/gen/kenc.html  









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Posted:  10/20/2007 11:32:25 AM
P: 10/20/2007 12:23:41 PM
musey
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Date: 10/19/2007 11:47:06 PM
Author: door knob solitaire

Putting your offense aside (and I hope you can...cause I wuv you)

LOL dks, you're too cute thanks, and sorry I overreacted. I hear "traumatized" in relation to my little bear and I think "nooooooo but a lurrve him!"

Anyway, yes, totally different situations. I would really like to think that, because of the preparation, his "traumatization" was minimized. I'd also really like to believe that he knew we were coming back for him. Otherwise I just feel like a horrible parent

Author: NewEnglandLady

nearly every dog she has introduced to the playgroup has contracted KC, then that's it, they don't usually get it again unless they pick up another strain from somewhere else.

Sorta like chickenpox, huh? That's very good to hear. I hope this is the most common strain around here so he won't have to deal with it again!

Dogmom, he got all his shots about 3 weeks ago (including bordatella). The boarding facility was really strict with his records, I had to have them faxed over (very very good thing).

Lorelei, thank you very much for the info and the link. I will be reading that after I post this.


He slept straight through the night. He just finished up a nearly-10-minute-straight wheezing episode. Poor little guy!! FI's mother has a vet tech friend who recommended the robitussin thing. We gave him about 1/4 tsp. and are watching him closely. I'm of course freaking out about the possibility of him OD'ing or having an allergic reaction but she says it should be fine for him.

Posted:  10/20/2007 12:23:41 PM
P: 10/20/2007 12:48:31 PM
BizouMom
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One of my dogs has allergies and he has red eyes and licks his paws along with the wheezing.  I have a smushed face breed (Japanese Chin) and they do the wheezing/reverse sneeze alot.  I found that with my little one, if I gently rub his ribs, he will stop the wheezing.  I think he gets himself all upset and can't stop.  I realize that this is different than kennel cough but he may be comforted by trying it.  I also give him 1/4 to 1/2 of a children's benedryl when his allergy symptoms are really bad. 

Posted:  10/20/2007 12:48:31 PM
P: 10/20/2007 1:41:49 PM
bee*
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Date: 10/19/2007 5:21:33 PM
Author: musey
Date: 10/19/2007 5:18:46 PM

Author: bee*

it definitely sounds like kennel cough. It can start with wheezing and then end up with a full on hacking cough like Mara described. Most of the cases that we get in are ones that have come straight from kennels.


Thanks for replying, bee! Does your office usually recommend letting it run its course, or setting up an appointment to get an antibiotics (or otherwise) prescription?


Hi Musey, we recommend and appointment asap as unfortunately it can get worse quite quickly. If it is in it's early stages, you can usually treat it quite quickly with antibiotics. If it gets to full on coughing it can take a couple of weeks to cure.

Posted:  10/20/2007 1:41:49 PM
P: 10/20/2007 1:45:22 PM
bee*
bee*

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One other thing-do you guys have a kennel cough vaccine over in the US? I presume you probably do, but next time you're going into kennels get your pup this vaccine about ten to fourteen days before he goes into kennels. It is squirted up the nose but it works wonders. My babies have been left into kennels before and thankfully they have never contracted anything.

Posted:  10/20/2007 1:45:22 PM
P: 10/20/2007 7:22:03 PM
door knob solitaire
door knob solitaire

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Hey board...I think this KC thing just snowballed.  Hey I am not knocking the suggestion and the continued concern for Museys baby...if it did end up KC all of you deserve kuddos for your insistance.

I think Musey is trying to describe something that isn't a cough...or a wheeze...it is a STRANGE noise.  Having experienced it I know it is almost impossible to describe.

BizouMom...hit the nail on the head...I THINK...with a reverse sneeze.  It is unbelievable to hear.  Most scary if you have never heard it.  It is a result of an allergy of something.  Could be pollens, dander, foods etc.

Musey...that gets me to the reason of this latest post.  Did you leave your own food at the kennel?  If you did/or didn't...do you think it is possible that the staff could have fed your baby something else?  Even a treat made from some other ingredient could cause a allergic reaction.

Just another thought.

DKS

Posted:  10/20/2007 7:22:03 PM
P: 10/20/2007 8:54:41 PM
Mara
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bee, when portia had KC...the vet did give us something but they said it was really just more like cough medicine....and that there really is no medication for KC as it's like the human version of a common cold. so it's not something treated with antibiotics like strep. they gave us antibiotics to prevent secondary infection and also for the cough but really they said we just had to wait it out.

however what i have found with dog care is that one vet says one thing and another says something else. so i have a hard time believing cut or dry stuff when it comes to the vet visits!

________________________________

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

-Albert Einstein

Posted:  10/20/2007 8:54:41 PM
P: 10/21/2007 3:04:06 AM
musey
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DKS, it's not something that's really strange/scary, since he's done it his whole life when overly excited... just really hard to describe, not like anything I'm familiar enough to compare it to. A wheeze really is the closest thing. It's almost like a sob when he has attacks... trembling inhale, etc. But definitely NOT a cough. His mouth is always closed, everything's through his nose.

We did leave our own food at the kennel. They mix in wet food if they can't get a dog to eat, but they said he didn't need it.


We saw a vet today, not our usual office as they were all booked up through Wednesday. He of course didn't have a single wheeze while in with the vet (isn't that how it always goes?). The vet said it sounds like a "something similar to kennel cough," and that if we wanted, he'd do chest x-rays to confirm. We ended up passing on the x-rays, and got a prescription for antibiotics and a nasal decongestant. He'll be on meds for the next 2 weeks, then hopefully it will all have cleared up!

Posted:  10/21/2007 3:04:06 AM
P: 10/21/2007 3:17:05 AM
door knob solitaire
door knob solitaire

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Great news that you got a professional, involved.    Good job to all the PS medical staff on calling the KC and being right!

DKS

Posted:  10/21/2007 3:17:05 AM
P: 10/21/2007 6:35:46 AM
AGBF
AGBF

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Date: 10/20/2007 12:30:05 AM
Author: NewEnglandLady

Our pup started going to doggy daycare when he was right at a year old. What's the first thing that happened? He got KC.... Took him to the vet, was told it was kennel cough and when the doggy daycare owner came to pick Byron up the next day, she informed me that nearly every dog she has introduced to the playgroup has contracted KC, then that's it, they don't usually get it again unless they pick up another strain from somewhere else.



This is the same phenomenon I was describing in my earlier posting about what happened after I adopted a dog. After he was exposed to new dogs at our house (after being the only dog in a family's more isolated home), he immediately got kennel cough.

Deborah

A Girl's Best Friend

Posted:  10/21/2007 6:35:46 AM

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