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Comparing two diamonds

P: 10/1/2007 4:59:18 PM
takingtheplung Rough Rock Total Posts: 52 Last Post: 10/12/2007 Member Since: 9/26/2007	What diamond would you chose? Price - $9,900 Report GIA Cut - Excellent Carat - 1.28 colour E clarity Vs1 Depth % 62.2 Table % 55% Crown Angle 35 Crown % 16% Pavilion Angle 41.2 Pavillion % 43.50% Girdle Medium Measurements 6.95 - 7.01 X 4.34 Polish VG Symmetry VG Fluorescence none Price $9,000 Report GIA Cut Excellent Carat 1.28 colour G clarity Vs2 Depth % 61.2 Table % 56 Crown Angle 35 Crown % 15.5 Star Pavilion Angle 40.8 Pavillion % 43 Girdle M Measurements 6.99 - 7.06 X 4.30 Polish Excellent Symmetry Excellent Fluorescence none
Posted: 10/1/2007 4:59:18 PM

There are 16 replies to this message. There are 16 replies on this page.

P: 10/1/2007 5:03:53 PM
bill83 Rough Rock Total Posts: 13 Last Post: 6/26/2008 Member Since: 9/30/2007	i'm just starting to look myself but I would say the first one. Better color and clarity for only $900 more. I'll let the more experienced people opine.
Posted: 10/1/2007 5:03:53 PM

P: 10/1/2007 5:54:24 PM
takingtheplung Rough Rock Total Posts: 52 Last Post: 10/12/2007 Member Since: 9/26/2007	Thanks for the feedback.. I am curious to see what the experts will say about the pollish and symmetry plus the over all measurements.. I personally think the $9,000 diamond is a better diamond.
Posted: 10/1/2007 5:54:24 PM

P: 10/1/2007 6:07:13 PM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	Date: 10/1/2007 5:54:24 PM Author: takingtheplung Thanks for the feedback.. I am curious to see what the experts will say about the pollish and symmetry plus the over all measurements.. I personally think the $9,000 diamond is a better diamond. And you would be right. The angles are much "safer", since we don't truly know what they are. Looks lovely, and would be my pick as well. The other is at the steep/deep level, where leakage is quite possible. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 10/1/2007 6:07:13 PM

P: 10/1/2007 6:07:59 PM
esumsea Cut Rock Total Posts: 144 Last Post: 10/4/2008 Member Since: 8/28/2007	I would say the first one. You go up in clarity and way up in color. Check the % and make sure they don't take you down a level in cut quality but they seem close so I don't think that will be a problem. I am not an expert but I think they will weigh in soon. Good luck! Mario To assume makes an ass out of u and me
Posted: 10/1/2007 6:07:59 PM

P: 10/1/2007 6:09:28 PM
aljdewey Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,236 Last Post: 2/11/2008 Member Since: 11/25/2002	Date: 10/1/2007 6:07:13 PM Author: Ellen Date: 10/1/2007 5:54:24 PM Author: takingtheplung Thanks for the feedback.. I am curious to see what the experts will say about the pollish and symmetry plus the over all measurements.. I personally think the $9,000 diamond is a better diamond. And you would be right. The angles are much 'safer', since we don't truly know what they are. Looks lovely, and would be my pick as well. The other is at the steep/deep level, where leakage is quite possible. Ditto this in pink. (Ellen is SOOOOOOOOOOO smart! ) She's learned well, grasshop! _____________________ Note: Chainsaw Not Sold Separately.
Posted: 10/1/2007 6:09:28 PM

P: 10/1/2007 6:11:29 PM
esumsea Cut Rock Total Posts: 144 Last Post: 10/4/2008 Member Since: 8/28/2007	Date: 10/1/2007 6:07:13 PM Author: Ellen Date: 10/1/2007 5:54:24 PM Author: takingtheplung Thanks for the feedback.. I am curious to see what the experts will say about the pollish and symmetry plus the over all measurements.. I personally think the $9,000 diamond is a better diamond. And you would be right. The angles are much 'safer', since we don't truly know what they are. Looks lovely, and would be my pick as well. The other is at the steep/deep level, where leakage is quite possible. Ah, Ellen confirmed that the angles downgrade the "safeness" of the cut. I am not that knowledgable on diamonds in general and much less so with anything other than ECs and Asschers. To assume makes an ass out of u and me
Posted: 10/1/2007 6:11:29 PM

P: 10/1/2007 6:24:44 PM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	Date: 10/1/2007 6:09:28 PM Author: aljdewey Ditto this in pink. (Ellen is SOOOOOOOOOOO smart! ) She's learned well, grasshop! Ah, but I had excellent teachers. And thankies. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 10/1/2007 6:24:44 PM

P: 10/1/2007 6:44:51 PM
takingtheplung Rough Rock Total Posts: 52 Last Post: 10/12/2007 Member Since: 9/26/2007	Ellen, I was hoping that would be the response from the experts.. I was putting two diamond dealers up against each other. One is really putting me off on the exact specs($9,900 diamond) telling me its an "excellent cut" regardless. The other is really selling me on the measurements ($9,000 damond). Can you please help me understand why the 9,000 diamond has "safer" measurements? And I have the GSA sheet.. I can provide you what ever other info you might need. The angles are much safer sine we don't truly knwo what they are???
Posted: 10/1/2007 6:44:51 PM

P: 10/1/2007 7:01:05 PM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	Date: 10/1/2007 6:44:51 PM Author: takingtheplung Ellen, I was hoping that would be the response from the experts.. I was putting two diamond dealers up against each other. One is really putting me off on the exact specs($9,900 diamond) telling me its an 'excellent cut' regardless. The other is really selling me on the measurements ($9,000 damond). Can you please help me understand why the 9,000 diamond has 'safer' measurements? And I have the GSA sheet.. I can provide you what ever other info you might need. The angles are much safer sine we don't truly knwo what they are??? GIA "rounds" their numbers. If you do a search on here, you'll find more than you probably want to know about this. lol So, the numbers on the second one, even though they could be slightly different than what's listed, should still "work" together. C&P angles are kind of like a see saw, if one is up, the other should be down some, and vice versa. That first one has both going the same way (for lack of a better explanation), and that can cause some leakage, which will make it not as nice and bright as it could be. You could also do a search for "steep/deep, and that may help you understand it better. Now, I have a question for you. What is a GSA sheet? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 10/1/2007 7:01:05 PM

P: 10/1/2007 7:04:25 PM
gontama Cut Rock Total Posts: 170 Last Post: 12/23/2007 Member Since: 6/2/2007	Date: 10/1/2007 6:44:51 PM Author: takingtheplung Ellen, I was hoping that would be the response from the experts.. I was putting two diamond dealers up against each other. One is really putting me off on the exact specs($9,900 diamond) telling me its an 'excellent cut' regardless. The other is really selling me on the measurements ($9,000 damond). Can you please help me understand why the 9,000 diamond has 'safer' measurements? And I have the GSA sheet.. I can provide you what ever other info you might need. The angles are much safer sine we don't truly knwo what they are??? Ellen: I was editing while you were posting... do not you think #1 and #2 "can" be much closer than they are shown in the report, due to the rounding you refer to. Ellen meant (I think) that based on the GIA information on the crwon and pavilion angles, #2 is less likely cause leakage under the table of the diamond. In other words, #2 is likely to have a better light return than #1. This makes sense. However, if your choice is between the two, you might want to see them in person - GIA provides rounded c/p angles: In the "best" case, #1 can have c/p combo 34.75+ / 41.1+. In the "worst" case, #2 can have c/p combo 35.25- / 40.9-. where "I" would look at each of them more carefully not only with my eye but also with Ideal Scope to see the leakage. They can be much closer to each other than they appear in GIA reports. Spread of #2 is very good, but #1 is not too bad either depending on other properties. You will not see the small difference (<0.05mm) with you eye. But you may see the difference in color between the 2. Just FYI - with the price of #1, I think you can afford a very nice h&a with the color/clarity of #2 (g/vs2) from the top vendors here.
Posted: 10/1/2007 7:04:25 PM

P: 10/1/2007 8:17:25 PM
takingtheplung Rough Rock Total Posts: 52 Last Post: 10/12/2007 Member Since: 9/26/2007	Oops GIA - Thanks guys... This has been realy helpfull. I have one dealer that comes highly recomended and is very successful in the market, but his prices seem too good.. I have another dealer that is higher priced and says he buys only the best cut diamonds he can find.. He is very picky in his cuts.. So far this turned out true according to the data... By the way, neither of you mentioned the vergy good pollish/symmetry vs. the excellent on these diamonds.. was that because it doesn't matter? so the question for an untrained eye like mine.. should I just shoot for an AGS Zero? Does this elliminate "some" of the guess work?
Posted: 10/1/2007 8:17:25 PM

P: 10/1/2007 8:29:25 PM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	Date: 10/1/2007 8:17:25 PM Author: takingtheplung Oops GIA - Thanks guys... This has been realy helpfull. I have one dealer that comes highly recomended and is very successful in the market, but his prices seem too good.. I have another dealer that is higher priced and says he buys only the best cut diamonds he can find.. He is very picky in his cuts.. So far this turned out true according to the data... By the way, neither of you mentioned the vergy good pollish/symmetry vs. the excellent on these diamonds.. was that because it doesn't matter? so the question for an untrained eye like mine.. should I just shoot for an AGS Zero? Does this elliminate 'some' of the guess work? Yup. You won't see the difference. Yes, shooting for AGS0 can eliminate a lot of guesswork, and assure you a pretty stone, although they are not all created equal, some may be better than others. But I'd still bet that #2 is a really pretty stone. Any way you could compare it to an AGS0? That would be ideal. (the situation, not the diamond) gontama, I think you are asking me if I think these two could be much closer in the actual angles? Maybe, but it would just be a guess.... ETA, you have already given us everything the GIA report would have on it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 10/1/2007 8:29:25 PM

P: 10/1/2007 8:37:53 PM
diamondseeker2006 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 17,609 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 1/11/2006	Date: 10/1/2007 8:17:25 PM Author: takingtheplung Oops GIA - Thanks guys... This has been realy helpfull. I have one dealer that comes highly recomended and is very successful in the market, but his prices seem too good.. I have another dealer that is higher priced and says he buys only the best cut diamonds he can find.. He is very picky in his cuts.. So far this turned out true according to the data... By the way, neither of you mentioned the vergy good pollish/symmetry vs. the excellent on these diamonds.. was that because it doesn't matter? so the question for an untrained eye like mine.. should I just shoot for an AGS Zero? Does this elliminate 'some' of the guess work? It makes it easier, but it's not necessary as long as you are looking at GIA Excellents with numbers like #2. ~~~ When in doubt...don't.~~~
Posted: 10/1/2007 8:37:53 PM

P: 10/1/2007 10:35:02 PM
takingtheplung Rough Rock Total Posts: 52 Last Post: 10/12/2007 Member Since: 9/26/2007	ok - i am still trying to understand your response about crown and pavilion. I understand the concept but still don't really understand what the exact numbers should be and how they should move with each other. I understand that GIA rounds numbers so its impossible to know exactly what each is.. but i still don't understand what numbers I should be looking for in a crown and pavillion..
Posted: 10/1/2007 10:35:02 PM

P: 10/2/2007 7:59:43 AM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	I can't give you an exact set of numbers, but I'm going to give you the link to a post JohnQ made, that could help in picking GIA stones. Something else you could use is the HCA. Try to get numbers that fall within both the GIA and AGS zone. I don't know where you're shopping, and if a Sarin report, and/or Idealscope image is possible, but one or both of those would be great to have. His post is the second one down. http://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=55849&pageNo=2 Have you decided not to get the second one? It looks really nice... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 10/2/2007 7:59:43 AM

P: 10/2/2007 8:46:03 AM
takingtheplung Rough Rock Total Posts: 52 Last Post: 10/12/2007 Member Since: 9/26/2007	Ellen - Gontama HCA scores were so helpful.. Thank you so much.. I went through and did the HCA scores for all the diamonds I have received paperwork on and I think I found a real good purchase.. I am going to start a new thread.
Posted: 10/2/2007 8:46:03 AM

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