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 » RockyTalky
»  » Did i get a deal?
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Did i get a deal? |
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| P: 9/14/2007 1:08:49 AM | |
azabs Rough Rock Total Posts: 17 Last Post: 11/29/2007 Member Since: 9/14/2007 |
Sorry if this against the forum's TOS, i looked at the faq's briefly but did not see anything about asking this question. i bought this stone from a wholesaler...was wondering if I got a deal. unfortunately, without knowing the proportions. $5011 EGL report 1.08 E color vs2 60 Depth 57 Table Ex/Ex None Supposedly Ideal Cut even if its egl, with these stats, is it likely that i got a really dull stone (fire,brightness, scil-wise)? I ask because as i was shopping one jeweler compared two diamonds by blocking some of the room light with his hand to show the sparkle of one of the diamonds in semi-darkness. Now when i did this to my stone it didn't seem to sparkle as much as i remembered. i figured it would be atleast close to the sparkle i saw that day... what's the verdict? |
| Posted: 9/14/2007 1:08:49 AM | |
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There are 18 replies to this message. There are 18 replies on this page. |
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| P: 9/14/2007 1:44:09 AM | |
luckystar112 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,797 Last Post: 11/16/2009 Member Since: 1/8/2007 |
We need a lot more information... Shape? Crown angle? Pavilion angle? "Wholesaler" seems fishy to me. If you find out the crown and pavilion angles, you can enter the percentages into the halloway cut advisor (under "tools" and it should give you a good idea if it is perfoming well.
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| Posted: 9/14/2007 1:44:09 AM | |
| P: 9/14/2007 1:55:10 AM | |
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azabs Rough Rock Total Posts: 17 Last Post: 11/29/2007 Member Since: 9/14/2007 |
oops. round brilliant alas, i don't have the angles or any other measure of proportion. i'm pretty sure of the wholesaler status. i had to go to the diamond district in nyc and get id/fingerprinted and then close one door before i could open another (to sum it all up quickly).
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| Posted: 9/14/2007 1:55:10 AM | |
| P: 9/14/2007 2:09:07 AM | |
heraanderson Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,139 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 7/13/2007 |
1. get the egl report number, go to this website and fill the info out: http://www.eglusa.com/customerlogin.html then give us those angles. 2. For that price, you could get something from GIA ( and guarantee the accuracy of the lab as EGL is known to be a little lax) 3. What's your budget?
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| Posted: 9/14/2007 2:09:07 AM | |
| P: 9/14/2007 5:48:49 AM | |
Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,254 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005 |
EGL provides angles in percentage form, which aren't as accurate as angles, but they would still give us an idea. Look on the EGL report and you should see them listed as crown and pavillion percents. Also which branch of EGL graded this diamond, EGL USA, Europe, Antwerp, Israel etc? It should say on the report. Also light performance or sparkle can be variable, make sure your diamond is as clean as possible and take it into as many different lighting situations as you can to judge it.  Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn |
| Posted: 9/14/2007 5:48:49 AM | |
| P: 9/14/2007 7:30:31 AM | |
diamondseeker2006 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 17,609 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 1/11/2006 |
Unfortunately, you are not buying from a wholesaler if they sell to the public. With EGL, the color and clarity may or may not be accurate, so even if you get the angles, it would be impossible for us to know if the price was good or not. It would be a very good price if the stone really was E VS2 and had excellent cut. The only way to really know is to go to an independent appraiser and have them evaluate the stone for you. As far as the difference in sparkle goes, all jewelers seem to have lights that make all diamonds look great. They don't always look as great in other lighting. All diamonds will look different in different types of lighting, though. Hopefully you really got a great stone at a great price. We're just a little skeptical on EGL because the best stones generally are sent to GIA or AGS since stones with those certs will command a higher price.
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| Posted: 9/14/2007 7:30:31 AM | |
| P: 9/14/2007 9:12:25 AM | |
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azabs Rough Rock Total Posts: 17 Last Post: 11/29/2007 Member Since: 9/14/2007 |
I think the report will be from EGL israel. I know there is a difference between EGL and EGL USA but is there a difference between EGL and EGL israel? I actually don't have the report yet...i met the seller through my cousin and she said i could trust the seller. So...i trust that the EGL report will be what the seller told me. However, i wish i had known about the angles and the differences between EGL GIA and AGS a little sooner. I found this site yesterday, dang, if only it had been a couple of weeks ago. As for the title of the seller, it seems the seller is a diamond manufacturer. that's what the business card says anyway.
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| Posted: 9/14/2007 9:12:25 AM | |
| P: 9/14/2007 9:21:35 AM | |
thing2of2 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,675 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 1/1/2007 |
EGL is known to be loose in their grading, especially EGL Israel. Therefore, your E VS2 would probably have been graded an F/SI1 or even G/SI2 by GIA or AGS. If it is an excellent cut and it's graded fairly accurately it might not be such a bad deal. You can do a search here on Pricescope for similar diamonds to see what prices they're going for. An independent appraisal will help determine if it is graded accurately.
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| Posted: 9/14/2007 9:21:35 AM | |
| P: 9/14/2007 11:43:39 AM | |
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luckystar112 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,797 Last Post: 11/16/2009 Member Since: 1/8/2007 |
Date: 9/14/2007 1:55:10 AM Author: azab i'm pretty sure of the wholesaler status. i had to go to the diamond district in nyc and get id/fingerprinted and then close one door before i could open another (to sum it all up quickly). I'm sorry, but that sounds SHADY with a capital S! Reminds me of my future mother-in-law who went to NYC and did the same thing in a room of designer purses. (I.D., doors, everything) and she bought herself a burberry bag only for it to be a fake. Of course. Just watch out for those crazy scam artists!!! It's also shady that you have the stone, but he has failed to give you the report. What's the hold up? I would get that thing appraised as soon as possible! Edit: I realize that there is obviously a level of security that needs to be maintained when dealing with diamonds...and I've never been to the NYC diamond district, so I have no idea how these companies operate, but I'm just telling you the first thing I thought of. Just be careful. 
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| Posted: 9/14/2007 11:43:39 AM | |
| P: 9/14/2007 11:53:07 AM | |
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Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,254 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005 |
Date: 9/14/2007 9:12:25 AM Author: azabs I think the report will be from EGL israel. I know there is a difference between EGL and EGL USA but is there a difference between EGL and EGL israel? I actually don't have the report yet...i met the seller through my cousin and she said i could trust the seller. So...i trust that the EGL report will be what the seller told me. However, i wish i had known about the angles and the differences between EGL GIA and AGS a little sooner. I found this site yesterday, dang, if only it had been a couple of weeks ago. As for the title of the seller, it seems the seller is a diamond manufacturer. that's what the business card says anyway. If you do a search for EGL Israel, you will find lots of opinions from the pros concerning reliability, EGL USA is thought to be the most accurate for grading. Could you not return the diamond now you have some more knowledge and start again? If not, the only way you are going to know if this diamond is accurately graded is to spend out $ 100 - 150 for an independant appraisal. Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn |
| Posted: 9/14/2007 11:53:07 AM | |
| P: 9/14/2007 4:05:32 PM | |
hedarud Cut Rock Total Posts: 141 Last Post: 8/28/2009 Member Since: 4/20/2007 |
Are you asking because you can return it for a refund??? Or just to know....if it is the latter, you did OK. if it is the former I would get my money back and order online |
| Posted: 9/14/2007 4:05:32 PM | |
| P: 9/14/2007 4:23:31 PM | |
DMBsGirl Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,583 Last Post: 10/3/2009 Member Since: 9/29/2006 |
Date: 9/14/2007 11:43:39 AM Someone posted about their experience visiting Mark T, and they had to have their ID scanned and got fingerprinted, so it seems like this is pretty standard procedure and not something to be worried about. Author: luckystar112 Date: 9/14/2007 1:55:10 AM Author: azab i'm pretty sure of the wholesaler status. i had to go to the diamond district in nyc and get id/fingerprinted and then close one door before i could open another (to sum it all up quickly). I'm sorry, but that sounds SHADY with a capital S! Reminds me of my future mother-in-law who went to NYC and did the same thing in a room of designer purses. (I.D., doors, everything) and she bought herself a burberry bag only for it to be a fake. Of course. Just watch out for those crazy scam artists!!! It's also shady that you have the stone, but he has failed to give you the report. What's the hold up? I would get that thing appraised as soon as possible! Edit: I realize that there is obviously a level of security that needs to be maintained when dealing with diamonds...and I've never been to the NYC diamond district, so I have no idea how these companies operate, but I'm just telling you the first thing I thought of. Just be careful. 
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| Posted: 9/14/2007 4:23:31 PM | |
| P: 9/14/2007 11:23:14 PM | |
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azabs Rough Rock Total Posts: 17 Last Post: 11/29/2007 Member Since: 9/14/2007 |
lucky, you do have a point about the elaborate things scammers would do to make a buck. however, they would not have stayed in the same location for very long if there were selling really bad diamonds (my cousin had bought a huge rock up to a year ago). i am also comforted by the fact that midtown Manhattan is crazy expensive for a sixth floor office and the lobby had a cheesy diamond sculpture. then again, i shall heed all the advice on getting an independent appraisal. anyone know any good ones in northern virginia? i hear there's a list on this site with honest appraisers but i did not find it. i was just thinking about taking it to jared's in tyson's corner for $150. as for a refund...i wish. at this point it is just to know. it will eat me up if i don't atleast know if i was robbed blind, struck gold, or did just OK. i'm supposed to get the report next week or the week after. i really hope the proportions are decent. it is weird though that the seller doesn't have the report.
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| Posted: 9/14/2007 11:23:14 PM | |
| P: 9/15/2007 12:04:53 AM | |
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johngalt2004 Rough Rock Total Posts: 89 Last Post: 12/10/2007 Member Since: 9/8/2007 |
hey azabs, did you look at it yourself with a loupe? was your impression that it is very very clean? I'm a total newb here so I probably should keep my opinion to myself, but it seems like even if the EGL grading is extremely soft and if graded by GIA the stone would be a super clean SI2, G, 1.08 with a very good cut... it's not like you got killed or anything. But it also seems unlikely from everything I've read everywhere - and my own experience - that you were embraced into an inner dark diamond dealer circle where you bought something at a true steal either - because from all I've read.... that just doesn't happen in the trade - only maybe on ebay or craigslist with a distress sale. But sounds like a pretty neat diamond to me! By the way I bought an IGI "ideal cut" ten years ago - got just MURDERED on the price like maybe 200% markup (I had no bargaining power, no credit, no internet savvy)... anyway it is a gorgeous stone that outshines most others at any given dinner table... and it doesn't really matter how soft it is graded. I have a feeling there are lots of really good buys on really good cuts from ELG out there. I hope you end up happy whatever you find out. If it were me, and the stone was unreturnable, I don't know if I'd push it if I loved the stone... why rain on my OWN parade?
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| Posted: 9/15/2007 12:04:53 AM | |
| P: 9/15/2007 9:30:53 AM | |
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thing2of2 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,675 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 1/1/2007 |
Go to the resources heading at the top right of the page and click on appraisers. You should be able to find information there on someone in your area. I did a quick search and there are 5 independent appraisers that pop up for VA.
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| Posted: 9/15/2007 9:30:53 AM | |
| P: 9/22/2007 11:42:43 PM | |
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azabs Rough Rock Total Posts: 17 Last Post: 11/29/2007 Member Since: 9/14/2007 |
Update... did I get a good deal? it almost sounds too good to be true now that i have the EGL report. even if it's a SI1 F. $5011 EGL antwerp report 1.08 6.70 x 6.67 x 4.00 E color vs2 59.8 Depth 57 Table Ex/Ex None Ideal Cut crown height 14% pavilion depth 43% thin to medium 0.7 on HCA i did take a look in a loupe but i didn't know what to look for. i couldn't see anything odd. now that i have the report, i see a small red squiggly line right on the edge of the table. (good spot imo) getting an independent appraisal (from Martin Fuller) in a couple of weeks. thanks for all your support PS! i was feeling a little queasy right after i bought it, but you guys made me feel better, even before i got the report.
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| Posted: 9/22/2007 11:42:43 PM | |
| P: 9/23/2007 2:12:00 PM | |
surfgirl Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,438 Last Post: 5/19/2009 Member Since: 4/5/2007 |
I think the more important question is...is it a lovely stone? Does it have fire, scintillation, brilliance? Or does it sit there like a dead, grey lump of glass? If it's the former then you have a nice stone. If not, return it!
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| Posted: 9/23/2007 2:12:00 PM | |
| P: 9/23/2007 6:34:01 PM | |
WorkingHardforSmallRewards Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,234 Last Post: 12/14/2008 Member Since: 6/6/2007 |
I would recommend getting the appraisal as soon as possible, just in case there was something up. for instance, if it was off by 2 color grades or so you might have some legal recourse, but the longer you wait the more trouble it will be. I would also call up right away and check what his return policy is, and if he has anything official I would make sure to get it done within that period of time.
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| Posted: 9/23/2007 6:34:01 PM | |
| P: 10/3/2007 12:00:19 AM | |
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azabs Rough Rock Total Posts: 17 Last Post: 11/29/2007 Member Since: 9/14/2007 |
Update: I got it independently appraised by Martin fuller. EGL color E MF color H (3 friggin color grades!) EGL clarity vs2 MF clarity si1 borderline si2 (eye clean to me) EGL cut excellent MF cut excellent so in the end i didn't get ripped off. but it wasn't a fantastic deal either. i still think it was pretty good. and i saw pretty good hearts and arrow pattern. that was definitely a bonus. so altogether $5011 EGL antwerp report 1.086 6.70 x 6.67 x 4.00 H color SI1/SI2 (eye clean) 59.8 Depth 57 Table Ex/Ex None Ideal Cut crown height 14% pavilion depth 43% thin to medium 0.7 on HCA probably H&A so it looks like i saved at least 300-600 off internet price (as opposed to b&m)...i think. what do you think?
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| Posted: 10/3/2007 12:00:19 AM | |
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