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Advice on this Diamond Grading......HELP

P: 8/26/2007 11:44:47 PM
vigorgs Rough Rock Total Posts: 13 Last Post: 9/2/2007 Member Since: 8/26/2007	Hello Everyone, This will be my first significant diamond purchase, wondering what you guys thought about this one. Here is the GIA report info let me know what you think. Thanks for any help you can provide. Shape:Square Modified Brilliant Meas: 6.54x6.31x4.72 Weight: 1.59 Depth:74.8% Table: 71% Girdle: thin to slightly thick Cutlet: None Polish: Excellent Symmetry: Very Good Clarity: VS2 Color: G Flourescence: None Comments: Additional clouds are not shown Key to symbols: Cloud
Posted: 8/26/2007 11:44:47 PM

There are 13 replies to this message. There are 13 replies on this page.

P: 8/27/2007 12:41:55 AM
Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,587 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000	I would never buy a diamond with this teeny bit of info. The thin part of the girdle might be a problem. The proportion data is meaningless. Clouds at VS2 can be ok, but not always. If you are buying it unseen then have it sent to an appraiser before you pay Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT HCA and Ideal-scope developer http://www.ideal-scope.com and http://www.HollowayDiamonds.com.au
Posted: 8/27/2007 12:41:55 AM

P: 8/27/2007 1:10:57 AM
Regular Guy Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,327 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 7/7/2004	Date: 8/27/2007 12:41:55 AM Author: Garry H (Cut Nut) Clouds at VS2 can be ok, but not always. Garry, Did you have some kind of conversion experience recently, vis-a-vis clouds. I noted your reportage here. And...even there you say: "I doubt a VS2 can be sleepy." Pretty recently, Richard Sherwood advised a shopper with a big wad of cash to consider not paying a dime towards VS1, when VS2 would really always suffice...unless I misread him. Do you think with clouds as the marker, this clearly should be an exception to this rule? When you have these concerns...AGS light performance calculations & of course HCA must be used with exceptions noted for clarity, as you're indicating here. Do you know to what extent your position on this is unique? You have a lot of credibility here, and it seems you're suggesting the new itch you've got is one we might all scratch. Ira (Ruffles have Ridges) Z. ____________ If you're looking for diamond shopping tips...this (along with this update) might do the trick! however...caution: known to have been regarded as armed and dangerous
Posted: 8/27/2007 1:10:57 AM

P: 8/27/2007 11:13:41 AM
oldminer Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,966 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 9/4/2000	Garry may have a particular VS2 in mind with regards to clouds, but I can't remember a VS2 which made a diamond look bad. There is a range of what clarity faults, etc which determine a VS2 grade, but the vast majority of VS2 diamonds look like and perform as well as flawless diamonds. Exceptions to this are possible due to unusual lighting, specific inclusion relief and location, clarity faults mixing with cutting and possible fluorescence issues. One can't dismiss an overly generous grade from even the most respected of the labs at fault, too. One can buy a fine cut, high quality diamond basically sight unseen, but commercial diamonds and most colored gems elude adequate description and must be seen to be understood for their appearance. This is a good part of why the most recognized diamond web oriented vendors use Branding and specific cutting parameters so that what they represent can be delivered. David S. Atlas GG(GIA), ASG, Sr. Mbr. NAJA www.datlas.com
Posted: 8/27/2007 11:13:41 AM

P: 8/28/2007 10:38:05 PM
vigorgs Rough Rock Total Posts: 13 Last Post: 9/2/2007 Member Since: 8/26/2007	Thanks guys for all your help..... I was told by my local jeweler that this diamond looks pretty good on paper........I guess you really need to see it to tell for sure??? Is there anything else I can do over the Internet to find out more information about this diamond or others to be more confident with my purchase???
Posted: 8/28/2007 10:38:05 PM

P: 8/28/2007 11:11:44 PM
Regular Guy Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,327 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 7/7/2004	Vigors, Actually, sorry for the tangent, and Garry may have felt the notation under his signature covered him. A reflector image, such as from an ASET, could help...even when seeing it live. Ira (Ruffles have Ridges) Z. ____________ If you're looking for diamond shopping tips...this (along with this update) might do the trick! however...caution: known to have been regarded as armed and dangerous
Posted: 8/28/2007 11:11:44 PM

P: 8/28/2007 11:15:02 PM
vigorgs Rough Rock Total Posts: 13 Last Post: 9/2/2007 Member Since: 8/26/2007	Thanks..........and sorry I am New to this
Posted: 8/28/2007 11:15:02 PM

P: 8/28/2007 11:45:53 PM
vigorgs Rough Rock Total Posts: 13 Last Post: 9/2/2007 Member Since: 8/26/2007	Gary H(Cut Nut) or anyone else, Do you know of where I can send this diamond to be appraised or analyzed using the HCA or Ideal Scope or ASET??? AGain I apologize for my inexpreience in this field. Thanks
Posted: 8/28/2007 11:45:53 PM

P: 8/29/2007 12:29:49 AM
Regular Guy Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,327 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 7/7/2004	Vigorgs, Although at the upper right, under Resources, you can look up your local appraiser...there's typically a big span between the strength of even the typical local independent appraiser, and the pros on this board. Check, then, for JohnQ's first post here for some direction to quality regulars on this board. Ira (Ruffles have Ridges) Z. ____________ If you're looking for diamond shopping tips...this (along with this update) might do the trick! however...caution: known to have been regarded as armed and dangerous
Posted: 8/29/2007 12:29:49 AM

P: 8/29/2007 1:08:27 AM
vigorgs Rough Rock Total Posts: 13 Last Post: 9/2/2007 Member Since: 8/26/2007	Ira Z, Thank You for everything........I truely appreciate all your help to a new guy like myself.......
Posted: 8/29/2007 1:08:27 AM

P: 8/29/2007 1:31:52 AM
WorkingHardforSmallRewards Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,234 Last Post: 12/14/2008 Member Since: 6/6/2007	Yea, I really want to know what Gary is talking about, especially since my diamond is VS2 and the only inclusion is a cloud One, when you say "OK" you mean having no affect and excellent right:) but that somehow sometimes VS2 clouds can be a problem (though I thought you had said otherwise, and I thought JQ has insisted several times that for performance impacting clouds the diamond would be an SI2 or lower which is leaving me perplexed) also when AGS calculates there light performance grade it would factor in the inclusion right? thus if the inclusion were having an impact and causing the diamond to be "sleepy" in anyway it would be unable to optain the 0 for light performance right?　or perhaps that isnt the case? Can you elaborate on your recent experiences that started you out not to long ago posting a therad warning about SI2 and SI1s and now expanding into VS2 territory? ____________________________ "Signature-Ideal Meat I'm Lovin it McDonald's."
Posted: 8/29/2007 1:31:52 AM

P: 8/29/2007 2:07:14 AM
Regular Guy Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,327 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 7/7/2004	Date: 8/29/2007 1:31:52 AM Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards also when AGS calculates there light performance grade it would factor in the inclusion right? thus if the inclusion were having an impact and causing the diamond to be 'sleepy' in anyway it would be unable to optain the 0 for light performance right?　or perhaps that isnt the case? Working, You may find this thread interesting...or at least relevant. I'll try an analogy. AGS doesn't know a diamond in the "biblical" sense...but it raises the mathematical bar, bringing in a calculus inspired improvements...so you can do better & better at defining the area under measurements of the diamond. Therefore...rather than melding HCA with Imagem...it is just a very good HCA. The particulars of the performance of the stone, that would be independent of what could be predicted from it's specific proportions, would be unknown to AGS...as I understand it. But, that is what they are calling "light performance" grading. Frankly...I think this is more a positive testament to the value of good cutting, than a negative to their claim...however...that is really the whole point being raised by Garry, and therefore, you. Ira (Ruffles have Ridges) Z. ____________ If you're looking for diamond shopping tips...this (along with this update) might do the trick! however...caution: known to have been regarded as armed and dangerous
Posted: 8/29/2007 2:07:14 AM

P: 8/29/2007 8:32:22 AM
denverappraiser Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,618 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 7/21/2004	Working, By definition, a VS2 can have no inclusions that materially affect the beauty or durability of the stone. I understand that materially is a slippery word that is subject to different interpretations and that this can lead to confusion between graders but, in this case I think your risk is low. That phrase appears in the definition of SI2, 2 full grades below what were talking about. Neil Beaty GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA Professional Appraisals in Denver There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.
Posted: 8/29/2007 8:32:22 AM

P: 8/29/2007 10:21:46 AM
Regular Guy Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,327 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 7/7/2004	Date: 8/29/2007 8:32:22 AM Author: denverappraiser .... *materially* affect the beauty ... of the stone. ...That phrase (also) appears in the definition of SI2, 2 full grades below what were talking about. Neil Beaty GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA Professional Appraisals in Denver Since there is already a degree of suspicion concerning clouds as dulling agents for light performance in SI stones...I'm not sure how this continuum of assurance (that GIA is extending?) is expected to provide comfort. Ira (Ruffles have Ridges) Z. ____________ If you're looking for diamond shopping tips...this (along with this update) might do the trick! however...caution: known to have been regarded as armed and dangerous
Posted: 8/29/2007 10:21:46 AM

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