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ť ASSCHER EXPERTS - HELP! Can a large table be OK?

ASSCHER EXPERTS - HELP! Can a large table be OK?

P: 6/18/2007 3:44:14 PM
vespergirl Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,949 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 1/29/2007	So, today I went to the B&M jeweler where we bought my engagement ring to see abuot trading my asscher in for another one that has better numbers. The thing that's bothgering me about my current diamond is that it has a wide step in the middle that looks like a large black shadow whenever the diamond is viewed face-on. I saw a diamond with perfect numbers, that was nice, and only would have cost a few hundred more for a trade-up, but it didn't dazzle me in person. It was very nice, but I didn't think it was much nicer than the stone I already have, even though the specs were better. Click this link to see specs: http://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=63836 However, they also showed me another diamond that I absolutely LOVED. It was an F color, which I liked so much better than my H, and it had so many narrow steps it looked more sparkly than mine, a lot more like a Royal Asscher. The thin steps gave it so much more fire than my stone, and I couldn't stop staring at it. The only hitch - the table is 69%, which I know is supposed to be too large. But, it didn't look bad to me in the store, and I've heard that sometimes you have to judge fancies more by eye than by numbers, but I don't know if a large table is always bad in an asscher. The other hitch is that it will cost almost $4000 to upgrade to that stone. I don't have a copy of the report, but here are the essential specs that I remember - if you are a jeweler or have asscher expertise, let me know what you think - should I take the plunge? EGL - square emerald cut Carat: 2.25 ct Color: F Clarity: VS1 Size: 7.19 x 7.13 mm Depth: 69.1% Table: 69% Crown height: 15% Girdle: medium Polish: Very good Symmetry: Very good Culet: None Flourescence: None I wish I had taken a picture to show you guys ... what do you think?
Posted: 6/18/2007 3:44:14 PM

There are 20 replies to this message. There are 20 replies on this page.

P: 6/18/2007 3:54:57 PM
Chrono Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,342 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 4/22/2004	I guess the 15% crown height is the saving grace of the large 69% table, which is probably why the asscher doesn't look glassy. Have you viewed this stone away from the store lights (by the window for natural sunlight) and in their back office with fluorescent lighting? If it still wows you, then I guess this must be it. I'm guessing the extra 4K must be for the F colour. All the other stats look pretty good too. As for the step pattern, well, can't say anything without a picture.
Posted: 6/18/2007 3:54:57 PM

P: 6/18/2007 3:59:44 PM
decodelighted Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,630 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 7/27/2005	Interesting! I'll fess up that my Asscher has a 67% table ... but was the best looking one I saw. In the end I used my "gut" & "eye" rather than anyone else's set rules. Did you look at it in many lighting situations -- would they ever let you take it home for a few days (if you left your own e-ring as collateral!) Pictures would be great but they just don't tell the whole story with asschers -- we might be able to judge it from a single angle but -- so so so different than the living, scintillating, moving, sparkling real thing.
Posted: 6/18/2007 3:59:44 PM

P: 6/18/2007 4:33:47 PM
vespergirl Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,949 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 1/29/2007	I am posting this diagram to show that the stone I liked seems to be a "narrow step" asscher which seems to be what I like best. Is that less desireable than wide step?
Posted: 6/18/2007 4:33:47 PM

P: 6/18/2007 4:37:19 PM
Chrono Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,342 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 4/22/2004	I don't think in this case that one is more desirable than the other - it is more of a personal taste, just like there is nothing "wrong" with the drop style, it's just not for you. It seems like you like the high pattern contrast/scintillation of the narrow step pattern.
Posted: 6/18/2007 4:37:19 PM

P: 6/18/2007 4:49:27 PM
vespergirl Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,949 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 1/29/2007	I was able to look at the ring in different lighting situations (halogen, flourescent, daylight, shade), and I didn't notice any large "dark steps" like my current stone has. There was contrast, of course, but since all of the steps were even and narrow, it gave it more of the RA type look than the drop style look. I can't stop thinking about that stone, but now that I'm a PSer, I guess I'm letting the 69% table bother me, even though the ring looked good to me in the store. The sales rep brought the head jeweler/franchise owner into our room to talk to me about their asschers (they showed me several). I asked him if I gave him a set of specs, could he find me one that met my requirements. He said that they could, but it wouldn't necessarily be something that I loved, because the stone that brought me in the store, with the perfect specs, I didn't love in person, and that could happen with any of them. He explained that the difference between his stores & other retailers is that they purchase & own all of their diamonds, as opposed to other retailers that act as clearinghouses that have stuff brought in on request. So, his choices are limited, because they only have the diamonds that they have, and only purchase a few times a year. So, it may be a while until they found something else that I love within my price range. I have to say, honestly, I loved the stone so much, but I'm hesitant to pay $4000 extra for something that doesn't have perfect specs. Am I being anal, or should I just go with what I like?
Posted: 6/18/2007 4:49:27 PM

P: 6/18/2007 4:55:04 PM
Chrono Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,342 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 4/22/2004	With all fancy cuts, the final test is with the eyes. Sometimes not all the #s fall into the ideal specs because the paper cannot account for all the facet angles and how they interplay with each other. What is the store's return policy? I can tell you love the stone but the table % is making you hesitate. Your eyes are saying you love it but your mind is playing tricks on you. I would trust the eyes, and if the return policy is good, I'd take the stone for a really good spin. If at the end of that "trial" period, you don't like it, you can return the stone with very little risk.
Posted: 6/18/2007 4:55:04 PM

P: 6/18/2007 5:01:23 PM
vespergirl Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,949 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 1/29/2007	Hi everyone, Here's a link to a picture of a stone that looks very very much like the one I saw today - larger table and thinner steps - tell me what you think ... http://www.jamesallen.com/grading_report.asp?type=2&pic=1049357
Posted: 6/18/2007 5:01:23 PM

P: 6/18/2007 5:02:08 PM
decodelighted Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,630 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 7/27/2005	Date: 6/18/2007 4:49:27 PM Author: vespergirl I have to say, honestly, I loved the stone so much, but I'm hesitant to pay $4000 extra for something that doesn't have perfect specs. Am I being anal, or should I just go with what I like? What are "perfect specs" anyway? The specs Stmdr has popularized? The ones used to create Royal Asschers? I wonder if that famed Cartier 1922 asscher fell into those "perfect specs" ... or, if, perhaps there ARE NO "PERFECT" SPECS for asschers. My personal belief is the latter ... that general guidelines might help people who don't trust their eyes weed out "dogs" but ... SERIOUSLY ... anyone who admires asschers and who has seen several in person should know what appeals to THEMSELVES & trust that. Some things are TRULY just a matter of personal preference. I am POSITIVE that there is nothing "better" or "worse" about any of the types of asschers ... PERSONALLY I like the bright drop style. I don't like the narrow-step ones (including Royal Asschers) unless they are at or over 2cts ... and the bigger they are the more I like them. Seems like it's a mind-clean issue for you ... I just question what you think you know. How "perfect" those "perfect specs" you've been looking for really are -- ESPECIALLY since you've JUST WITNESSED the imperfect, unattractive stone with these so-called "perfect specs". Whether the new stone is worth 4K that your current stone ... or whether it will truly make you happier ... or whether what someone else or some intenet "other" thinks of your stone without having ever seen it will affect your own feelings about it even if you do get it ... only you can determine.
Posted: 6/18/2007 5:02:08 PM

P: 6/18/2007 5:06:47 PM
vespergirl Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,949 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 1/29/2007	Hi Chrono, The store has a 100% lifetime tradein policy, and you can trade in your current stone for a new one even if the new stone is only a few dollars more. In fact, the owner suggested what you did, that I had nothing to lose to trade it in, because if ultimately I'm not in love, I could always go back and swap it for something else, or even my original stone (they have a 30 day return/exchange policy). Thge only thing is, my current stone is a trade-up, so I was hoping that this would be the final stone ...
Posted: 6/18/2007 5:06:47 PM

P: 6/18/2007 5:12:14 PM
vespergirl Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,949 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 1/29/2007	Deco, your comments are bringing me down right down to earth! You're right - before I got on PS, I would have picked that stone hands down, because I like the way that it looks the best. Heck, my current stone has better numbers than that one, but everyone in the room today thought the one I want is indeed much prettier. Now that I know that I want it, there is that pesky matter of the $4000 ... I thought I was going to go in there today and pay $500 for a tradeup, but this is now a big issue because that's some serious cash ... If the stone I wanted was only $500 more, no question, I would have gotten it today - but for $4000, I think that I need to sleep on it ...
Posted: 6/18/2007 5:12:14 PM

P: 6/18/2007 7:57:24 PM
strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003	first question: which egl and how accurate is the grading? a high crown can help large tabled asschers did you view it on your finger and moving or just static? ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K
Posted: 6/18/2007 7:57:24 PM

P: 6/18/2007 8:22:17 PM
vespergirl Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,949 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 1/29/2007	Hi strmrdr, I didn't know that there were different EGL labs until tonight, so I'm not sure. The stuff was written in English, does that make a difference? I was able to view it on my finger in a temp setting, and it was gorgeous. I tried on 4 stones today - mine, the one I love, the one with great specs that I went in to see, and another one that I didn't care for. The one with the large table and narrow steps seemed to have the best concentric square pattern now that I think of it, the patterns were crisp and easy to see - it looked more like looking down into a series of squares, rather than chunky facets. It also had a lot more scintillation than the other stones. When I complained about the table size, the owner told me that in that particular stone, the table made it appear bigger, and the table allowed space for all of the squares to show, which is why the patterns were so clear ... I don't know if that's just a line or not, but when I held it next to my current stone, I liked it better, no question. Now that I don't have it with me, I am really missing it. But $4000? I mean, I just got my ring last year ... I feel like for that amount of extra cash, it should be "perfect" - as you can see, I'm still undecided. By the way, the cost of the diamond altogether will be about $22,500 after adding in tax. Does anyone thnk that's too high for this stone?
Posted: 6/18/2007 8:22:17 PM

P: 6/18/2007 8:58:17 PM
strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003	price is about internet price for a gia graded stone so it comes down too which egl and how accurate is grading? ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K
Posted: 6/18/2007 8:58:17 PM

P: 6/18/2007 9:17:32 PM
decodelighted Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,630 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 7/27/2005	The price actually sounds good to me ... especially for a B&M! A similar-sized Royal would be 30K easily or more. For comparison sake -- a 1.5 carat asscher in a Daniel K setting was about 22K a couple years ago ... probably more like 25K these days. Whether it's worth 4K more TO YOU versus your current stone is such a personal decision. 4K is "worth" different amounts to different people depending on the circumstances. Some times in my life I would have thought it was "worth it" ... right now, I don't think I'd make that choice for that amount ... but I'd totally understand if you did ... if it's reasonable in your world right now.
Posted: 6/18/2007 9:17:32 PM

P: 6/18/2007 10:23:13 PM
Tacori E-ring Ideal Rock Total Posts: 16,106 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 8/15/2005	It's an EC but my stone has a large table. I love it and would not change the cut for anything. If it looks pretty to you then that is ALL that matters!
Posted: 6/18/2007 10:23:13 PM

P: 6/19/2007 5:45:05 AM
simplysplendid Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,607 Last Post: 11/10/2009 Member Since: 11/19/2006	Hi Vespergirl, Sometimes I feel that asschers with large tables just have their fire on the outer edge of the diamond but not so much nearer to the centre of the stone, whereas the stones with smaller tables have fire in more areas.. that's just my observation when I went asscher hunting. But if it appeals to you, I guess that's all that matters.. have fun!
Posted: 6/19/2007 5:45:05 AM

P: 6/19/2007 9:44:21 AM
dsy Rough Rock Total Posts: 16 Last Post: 10/30/2008 Member Since: 4/24/2007	I couldn't help but notice that you also have diamonds in your wedding band. If you go from an H to an F for your engagement ring, would you have to upgrade the color of your wedding band diamonds as well? Just something to consider... Also, I went for an asscher that had the extra step and love the look of narrow steps as well!
Posted: 6/19/2007 9:44:21 AM

P: 6/19/2007 11:31:02 AM
vespergirl Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,949 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 1/29/2007	OK, I've decided - numbers be damned, I'm going for it! Upon thinkiong about it, the best judge of a diamond is my EYES. Since that stone LOOKED so much better to me than any of the others, that's the one I need to have. I'm going to call the jeweler today. It's going to be a couple of weeks until I have it (they need to send it to Verragio for a new head to be set) but I'll post pics as soon as I get them.
Posted: 6/19/2007 11:31:02 AM

P: 6/19/2007 12:11:07 PM
Chrono Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,342 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 4/22/2004	There! Now that you've pulled the trigger, I'm sure a boatload of worrying has been relieved. I hope to see pics of that pretty new thing here soon.
Posted: 6/19/2007 12:11:07 PM

P: 6/19/2007 1:46:22 PM
decodelighted Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,630 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 7/27/2005	Date: 6/19/2007 11:31:02 AM Author: vespergirl OK, I've decided - numbers be damned, I'm going for it! YUMMO! Can't wait to see the new batch of pix. The color is gonna be fine with your eternity band too ... even if the stones are G-H ... smaller stones look whiter. SQUEE!!!
Posted: 6/19/2007 1:46:22 PM

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