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Need legal advice... |
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| P: 3/6/2007 1:22:11 AM | |
ForteKitty Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,414 Last Post: 8/6/2009 Member Since: 10/7/2004 |
I've been working for L.A. County for 2 years now. I was promoted to my current job 19 months ago, from a different department. Last tuesday, I received a phone call from HR stating that because my previous job was on a higher "pay schedule", my transfer was technically a "demotion", not a "promotion". Because of that, I was NOT entitled to a raise (which I got), but instead should have gotten a DECREASE in salary! Umm... had they told me that, I would have never accepted the position in the first place. They apologized for their mistake, admitted it was an internal error. However, they want me to pay back $6000! 19 months later!! I have a letter from the HR division head at the time of transfer, and it clearly stated my starting salary and date of confirmation, signed. I also have a form with a signature stating all of the information was correct and in accordance to County Civil Service rules. I am fuming, and intend to do whatever it takes to fight this. I have documented everything, and ready to file a grievance report tomorrow. Has anyone ever heard of this happening? If so, do I have a chance in court? |
| Posted: 3/6/2007 1:22:11 AM | |
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There are 18 replies to this message. There are 18 replies on this page. |
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| P: 3/6/2007 1:24:45 AM | |
diamondfan Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,997 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 6/17/2005 |
I am not a lawyer but to me, if you have documentation stating all of it, they are full of bunk and it sounds just ludicrous to me. I am not sure, though, legally, if they can now claim otherwise and ask to be paid back. I would think not, this is what they told you nearly two years ago, and I would think that they need to honor that, error or no error. What a bunch of BS if you ask me. I would definitely ask an employment rights attorney...
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| Posted: 3/6/2007 1:24:45 AM | |
| P: 3/6/2007 1:28:33 AM | |
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ForteKitty Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,414 Last Post: 8/6/2009 Member Since: 10/7/2004 |
I have a Confirmation of Appointment with my starting step and salary, and the document is signed by the Division Head of Human Resources. Also, in the County, in order to demote someone, proper paperwork has to be filled. I was never given such papers. So my transfer was processed as a promotion up until last week when I got promoted again... that's when someone said, "hmm... oops." They have been afraid to send me anything in writing so far, so all I have done is send them emails detailing all the meetings and asking for confirmations. I know they have read the emails because they are tracked, and everything is printed. I have 10 business days to file a grievance report, so I'm not going to wait. That report is going out tomorrow. I'm so mad... it's a bait and switch!
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| Posted: 3/6/2007 1:28:33 AM | |
| P: 3/6/2007 2:34:40 AM | |
Beacon Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,734 Last Post: 11/9/2009 Member Since: 7/14/2006 |
Well I think it's crazy. You have a letter stating what you are to be paid and you entered employment on that basis and they have been paying you this all along. I cannot imagine how they can try and back out of it. I am sure you will be protected by some labor laws. It's pretty much fraud to try and re-write the rules after the game. I am no lawyer, but it seems like common sense. Someone is trying to cover their fanny and hoping you'll go along with it. No way!
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| Posted: 3/6/2007 2:34:40 AM | |
| P: 3/6/2007 6:53:20 AM | |
MiniMouse Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,013 Last Post: 11/5/2007 Member Since: 12/1/2004 |
ForteKitty, I'm no lawyer and therefore can't advise you but I just want you to know I'm so sorry for what you're going through. It's your employer's fault. You have everything clear in writing, so I don't see how they can now turn around and say they want you to take a drop in salary, and give back thousands of dollars. I truly hope you manage to sort this out amicably with no loss to you. Wishing you all the best and a good outcome.
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| Posted: 3/6/2007 6:53:20 AM | |
| P: 3/6/2007 9:43:28 AM | |
Kaleigh Ideal Rock Total Posts: 25,906 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 11/18/2004 |
FK, I have no legal advice for you but the whole thing is so insane!!! Please let us know how it goes!!!
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| Posted: 3/6/2007 9:43:28 AM | |
| P: 3/6/2007 10:03:56 AM | |
lumpkin Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,491 Last Post: 2/29/2008 Member Since: 5/24/2005 |
I can't imagine how they can possibly do that. I'm not a lawyer, but I just don't see how they can! Please post updates, Forte Kitty. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * |
| Posted: 3/6/2007 10:03:56 AM | |
| P: 3/6/2007 10:40:56 AM | |
winternight Cut Rock Total Posts: 365 Last Post: 10/26/2009 Member Since: 11/13/2006 |
Wow, sorry to hear it! Its really great that you have everything in writing - I can't tell you how many attorneys I know that have gotten job offers and had problems later with salary issues - some didn't get their salary offer in writing and they ended up being the worst off. Good luck!
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| Posted: 3/6/2007 10:40:56 AM | |
| P: 3/6/2007 10:44:09 AM | |
crown1 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,374 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 11/22/2006 |
sounds like they are making you the scape goat for their mistake. i'd file promptly! good luck!
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| Posted: 3/6/2007 10:44:09 AM | |
| P: 3/6/2007 10:02:49 PM | |
codex57 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,492 Last Post: 1/21/2008 Member Since: 12/18/2004 |
Are you in a union? That's gotta violate some rule somewhere.
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| Posted: 3/6/2007 10:02:49 PM | |
| P: 3/8/2007 12:30:15 AM | |
kev_800 Cut Rock Total Posts: 117 Last Post: 11/1/2008 Member Since: 1/27/2007 |
Date: 3/6/2007 1:22:11 AM Author:ForteKitty I've been working for L.A. County for 2 years now. I was promoted to my current job 19 months ago, from a different department. Last tuesday, I received a phone call from HR stating that because my previous job was on a higher 'pay schedule', my transfer was technically a 'demotion', not a 'promotion'. Because of that, I was NOT entitled to a raise (which I got), but instead should have gotten a DECREASE in salary! Umm... had they told me that, I would have never accepted the position in the first place. They apologized for their mistake, admitted it was an internal error. However, they want me to pay back $6000! 19 months later!! I have a letter from the HR division head at the time of transfer, and it clearly stated my starting salary and date of confirmation, signed. I also have a form with a signature stating all of the information was correct and in accordance to County Civil Service rules. I am fuming, and intend to do whatever it takes to fight this. I have documented everything, and ready to file a grievance report tomorrow. Has anyone ever heard of this happening? If so, do I have a chance in court? I've never heard of that identical scenario, but I do know that if you change your conduct in reliance upon the promise of another, and the other party breaks their promise, you can recover for damages that are directly the result of your reliance. Not to mention you clearly have all the evidence you need to show that they intended to give you a pay increase, as you already received the $6000 (unless I'm mis-reading your post). I think you should see an employment lawyer or a plaintiff's lawyer in your town. Contact the local bar association they'll have a referrral hotline. That is ridiculous. In my practice I deal frequently with the county. They don't seem to listen unless there is a lawsuit involved where they can lose their pants. |
| Posted: 3/8/2007 12:30:15 AM | |
| P: 3/23/2007 4:39:28 AM | |
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ForteKitty Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,414 Last Post: 8/6/2009 Member Since: 10/7/2004 |
Update: I'm preparing to sue... Which is rather unfortunate, since I'll likely spend more than $6000 on attorney fees. But it's a matter of principle. They're claiming the "overpayment" is due to human error and that money has to be recovered. However, I have documentation that they intentinally witheld information from me. I'm claiming they bait & switched me, and that I have actually lost more than $10k in potential earnings. Hopefully the judge will side with me. This totally pisses me off because I was supposed to take a few weeks off to visit friends, and now I have to prepare for court... whenever that may be. @#%&#$%...
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| Posted: 3/23/2007 4:39:28 AM | |
| P: 3/23/2007 5:12:00 AM | |
Maisie Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,766 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 12/30/2006 |
Thats really awful. Its such a shame that its come this far. I believe however that once they see you are sincere when you say you will go to court they will back off. Its obvious they are in the wrong and they are trying to bully you into paying them back. Good luck and well done for standing your ground!! Maisie
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| Posted: 3/23/2007 5:12:00 AM | |
| P: 3/23/2007 11:28:33 AM | |
bee* Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,103 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 5/14/2006 |
Date: 3/23/2007 5:12:00 AM Author: Maisie Thats really awful. Its such a shame that its come this far. I believe however that once they see you are sincere when you say you will go to court they will back off. Its obvious they are in the wrong and they are trying to bully you into paying them back. Good luck and well done for standing your ground!! Maisie I think the exact same. I'd say they'll back off when they know that you are definitely prepared to sue them. I think its great that you're going ahead with it-its rediculous what they're doing
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| Posted: 3/23/2007 11:28:33 AM | |
| P: 3/23/2007 12:13:46 PM | |
Aloros Ideal Rock Total Posts: 872 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 5/3/2006 |
If you're in the right, I'm pretty sure you can get them to pay your legal fees too. That sucks that you have to go through this. My best wishes for a speedy courtroom appearance and a ruling in your favor!
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| Posted: 3/23/2007 12:13:46 PM | |
| P: 3/24/2007 3:41:45 PM | |
fire&ice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,827 Last Post: 3/30/2009 Member Since: 7/22/2002 |
Date: 3/6/2007 1:22:11 AM I've never heard of this happening with a signed employment letter. I don't think they have a leg to stand on. Can you just let them sue you for the money instead of racking up legal bills on your side? I can't imagine they can dock your pay. Author:ForteKitty I have a letter from the HR division head at the time of transfer, and it clearly stated my starting salary and date of confirmation, signed. I also have a form with a signature stating all of the information was correct and in accordance to County Civil Service rules. I am fuming, and intend to do whatever it takes to fight this. I have documented everything, and ready to file a grievance report tomorrow. Has anyone ever heard of this happening? If so, do I have a chance in court? Also, what about an arbitration board?
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| Posted: 3/24/2007 3:41:45 PM | |
| P: 3/25/2007 12:54:36 AM | |
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ForteKitty Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,414 Last Post: 8/6/2009 Member Since: 10/7/2004 |
Date: 3/24/2007 3:41:45 PM Author: fire&ice I've never heard of this happening with a signed employment letter. I don't think they have a leg to stand on. Can you just let them sue you for the money instead of racking up legal bills on your side? I can't imagine they can dock your pay. Also, what about an arbitration board? I already went thru the Departmental internal hearing process. No resolution... all they offered me was a payment plan, to "soften" the financial burden.. BS, I said. It's not about that at this point. It's a matter of what's right and what's wrong. And yes, they can just dock my pay. If I do not pay up by April 1, 2007, it goes to County Auditor-Controller, and they will start deducting from my pay, using the 12-month payment plan they offered me.
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| Posted: 3/25/2007 12:54:36 AM | |
| P: 3/25/2007 9:40:56 AM | |
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fire&ice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,827 Last Post: 3/30/2009 Member Since: 7/22/2002 |
Date: 3/25/2007 12:54:36 AM Maybe I've never worked for the government - but this sounds INSANE. They are bullying you. Someone f'ed up & won't take the responsibility.Author: ForteKitty Date: 3/24/2007 3:41:45 PM Author: fire&ice I've never heard of this happening with a signed employment letter. I don't think they have a leg to stand on. Can you just let them sue you for the money instead of racking up legal bills on your side? I can't imagine they can dock your pay. Also, what about an arbitration board? I already went thru the Departmental internal hearing process. No resolution... all they offered me was a payment plan, to 'soften' the financial burden.. BS, I said. It's not about that at this point. It's a matter of what's right and what's wrong. And yes, they can just dock my pay. If I do not pay up by April 1, 2007, it goes to County Auditor-Controller, and they will start deducting from my pay, using the 12-month payment plan they offered me. Does the county have a labor relations board/group? Does the state/city where you live have an labor advocatcy/relations board? Here in VA, we have both. If neither of these work, hire an attorney. Run this by the attorney or labor group - If they arbitrarily can dock your pay, file a letter stating that you have NOT authorized such payment, do not feel you owe & it is in dispute. I would seriously consider looking for another job. Don't just quit though. This is just plain wrong. I'm so sorry.
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| Posted: 3/25/2007 9:40:56 AM | |
| P: 3/25/2007 11:50:36 AM | |
chiefneil Cut Rock Total Posts: 174 Last Post: 7/11/2008 Member Since: 2/7/2007 |
Your elected officials might be able to help too, like the County Board of Supervisors. Probably once you get a lawyer and file a lawsuit for breach of contract they'll cave and settle, and you can get them to pay your lawyer's fees as well.
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| Posted: 3/25/2007 11:50:36 AM | |
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