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»  » Asscher ASET Image
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Asscher ASET Image |
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| P: 11/26/2006 11:14:25 PM | |
kenny Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,819 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005 |
Pricescope just posted this ASET explanation, below on the left. I'm wondering how good this asscher ASET image is, on the right. It is of the 2.26 ct. I just bought. Can someone elaborate on exactly why it is good? If it could be improved upon what exactly would look different? - i.e. More red here or less blue there.  |
| Posted: 11/26/2006 11:14:25 PM | |
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There are 25 replies to this message. There are 25 replies on this page. |
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| P: 11/26/2006 11:17:41 PM | |
Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,579 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
That is very nice - lots of red, and enough parts that are blue or green to ensure great contrast. That ASET has been done with DiamCalc without leakage. Personally i prefer to see the version with leakage. If you have a gemadviser model you can attach the file to a post please Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 11/26/2006 11:17:41 PM | |
| P: 11/26/2006 11:21:27 PM | |
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kenny Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,819 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005 |
Thanks Garry. I tried to download the Gem Advisor software but it didn't work. Maybe because I have a MAC. (Does it work on a MAC?)
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| Posted: 11/26/2006 11:21:27 PM | |
| P: 11/26/2006 11:26:48 PM | |
Pricescope Administrator Total Posts: 8,265 Last Post: 1/5/2008 Member Since: 1/1/2000 |
I think both DiamCalc and GemAdvisor run on Windows only. The picture was originaly posted by JohnQ in AGS Grading System: ASET (Angular Spectrum Evaluation Tool) 
Pricescope |
| Posted: 11/26/2006 11:26:48 PM | |
| P: 11/26/2006 11:30:36 PM | |
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Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,579 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
Here is the ASET with leakage shown as white Kenny. Face up (more important for asschers than any other shape - because that is where you see the wonderful falling into the well pattern) this stone has lots of interest and balanced light return and contrasting patterns  Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 11/26/2006 11:30:36 PM | |
| P: 11/26/2006 11:58:25 PM | |
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kenny Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,819 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005 |
Thanks Garry. If white is leakage it looks like there won't be much. When I get the stone I'll use the Idealscope you sold me to see if the leakage locations are similar. Or is the ASET and IS different technology? BTW, Gem Advisor must work on mathematical descriptions of every angle of every facet since it is not an image captured optically. Right? How were those angles captured? Were they measured off the actual stone using a micrometer or a laser, or is the file the mathematical model that was the *goal* for the cutter?
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| Posted: 11/26/2006 11:58:25 PM | |
| P: 11/27/2006 12:15:07 AM | |
JulieN Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,145 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 7/25/2005 |
Helium scan, isn't it?
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| Posted: 11/27/2006 12:15:07 AM | |
| P: 11/27/2006 12:31:34 AM | |
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Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,579 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
Date: 11/27/2006 12:15:07 AM Author: JulieN Helium scan, isn't it? Yes The stone sits table down on the scanner stage that sits between a big german lens and CCD camera and a white screen on the other side. The stage rotates and 400 to 800 seperate black and white photo's are taken and the 3D model is made from that. Then that is imported into Sergey's DiamCalc virtual optical software (or Gem adviser which is a free mickey mouse version). Here you can see that I have changed the blue light from 30 degrees to 40 degrees - one of the tests that AGS use to see if a stone looses too much light (relevant to another thread running concurrently). We can see this stone of yours still has pretty good light return even when you put your noggin right up close, where as many asschers will die in the pavilion region when a lot of light is blocked in the center. I posted this so anyone with DiamCalc can see how to change the settings. You can also save the setting and use it later. But inside this control I often check to see where the 'hit' starts when I am buying stones sight unseen.  Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 11/27/2006 12:31:34 AM | |
| P: 11/27/2006 12:35:55 AM | |
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Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,579 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
The dialogue box blocked the red return bit - your stone is mostly red in the table region to 34 degrees - and is still showing some red parts at 40. I think you will enjoy it a lot :-)  Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 11/27/2006 12:35:55 AM | |
| P: 11/27/2006 12:52:26 AM | |
strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003 |
One of if not the best large asschers around. In a smaller asscher Id like more blue to show the patterns better in a 2ct plus its perfect. ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K |
| Posted: 11/27/2006 12:52:26 AM | |
| P: 11/27/2006 12:55:37 AM | |
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strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003 |
Date: 11/27/2006 12:35:55 AM Author: Garry H (Cut Nut) The dialogue box blocked the red return bit - your stone is mostly red in the table region to 34 degrees - and is still showing some red parts at 40. I think you will enjoy it a lot :-) 40 degree aset is bogus. Thanks for posting that as I thought from the other thread this image proves it. AGS does not use it for their cut grade. ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K |
| Posted: 11/27/2006 12:55:37 AM | |
| P: 11/27/2006 12:57:05 AM | |
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strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003 |
Date: 11/27/2006 12:15:07 AM No, sarin but its big enough the sarin does a good job.Author: JulieN Helium scan, isn't it? The asscher is too big for a helium scanner to be used. ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K |
| Posted: 11/27/2006 12:57:05 AM | |
| P: 11/27/2006 1:01:36 AM | |
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Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,579 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
Date: 11/27/2006 12:55:37 AM Author: strmrdr Date: 11/27/2006 12:35:55 AM Author: Garry H (Cut Nut) The dialogue box blocked the red return bit - your stone is mostly red in the table region to 34 degrees - and is still showing some red parts at 40. I think you will enjoy it a lot :-) 40 degree aset is bogus. Thanks for posting that as I thought from the other thread this image proves it. AGS does not use it for their cut grade. I am sorry that you believe that and even sorrier that you feel that way Storm. AGS do use 40 degree ASET data in tilt tests right thru from face up to 45 degrees. They have a proprietary weighting they apply, which I hope in the case of asschers is much more heavily weighted to face up than that they use for rounds and princess cuts. Here is one of their print-outs  Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 11/27/2006 1:01:36 AM | |
| P: 11/27/2006 1:04:20 AM | |
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Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,579 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
Date: 11/27/2006 12:57:05 AM Author: strmrdr Date: 11/27/2006 12:15:07 AM No, sarin but its big enough the sarin does a good job.Author: JulieN Helium scan, isn't it? The asscher is too big for a helium scanner to be used. The asscher may be too big for Jonathon's Helium (which has a maximum of 8.4mm width of diamond). But there are much bigger Helium lens systems. But it is true that Sarin has an easier time on bigger stones. Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 11/27/2006 1:04:20 AM | |
| P: 11/27/2006 1:07:28 AM | |
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kenny Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,819 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005 |
Is there enough information out this early to predict if this asscher will get an AGS 0 cut rating?
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| Posted: 11/27/2006 1:07:28 AM | |
| P: 11/27/2006 1:10:48 AM | |
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Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,579 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
Date: 11/27/2006 1:07:28 AM Author: kenny Is there enough information out this early to predict if this asscher will get an AGS 0 cut rating? The stone must go to AGS Kenny as they are very very strict on sym and polish (too strict in my view). But they will not be issuing reports until Feb 2007 Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 11/27/2006 1:10:48 AM | |
| P: 11/27/2006 1:13:08 AM | |
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kenny Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,819 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005 |
Thanks Garry. It means a lot to me that you and Strm both approve of the stone. It is an important purchase for me. Kinda scary, actually.   
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| Posted: 11/27/2006 1:13:08 AM | |
| P: 11/27/2006 1:19:34 AM | |
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strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003 |
Date: 11/27/2006 1:01:36 AM Author: Garry H (Cut Nut) Date: 11/27/2006 12:55:37 AM Author: strmrdr Date: 11/27/2006 12:35:55 AM Author: Garry H (Cut Nut) The dialogue box blocked the red return bit - your stone is mostly red in the table region to 34 degrees - and is still showing some red parts at 40. I think you will enjoy it a lot :-) 40 degree aset is bogus. Thanks for posting that as I thought from the other thread this image proves it. AGS does not use it for their cut grade. I am sorry that you believe that and even sorrier that you feel that way Storm. AGS do use 40 degree ASET data in tilt tests right thru from face up to 45 degrees. They have a proprietary weighting they apply, which I hope in the case of asschers is much more heavily weighted to face up than that they use for rounds and princess cuts. Here is one of their print-outs That does not agree with other published data Garry. Also that face up is weighted more heavily than other shapes does not make sence, from between 8 and 22 degrees of tilt is where an asscher will have in a lot of cases more light return even more so than face up. This gives them a huge scint effect when tilted back and forth. sending huge flashes of light out.  ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K |
| Posted: 11/27/2006 1:19:34 AM | |
| P: 11/27/2006 1:22:10 AM | |
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strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003 |
Date: 11/27/2006 1:13:08 AM Its an awesome asscher, I wish I owned it. :}Author: kenny Thanks Garry. It means a lot to me that you and Strm both approve of the stone. It is an important purchase for me. Ignore my and Garry's discussion as it has nothing to do with the quality of your asscher. ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K |
| Posted: 11/27/2006 1:22:10 AM | |
| P: 11/27/2006 1:30:43 AM | |
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strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003 |
Date: 11/27/2006 1:07:28 AM Author: kenny Is there enough information out this early to predict if this asscher will get an AGS 0 cut rating? In my opinion ignoring polish/symmetry for a second if this stone dont score AGS0 in performance then there is a serious problem with the AGS asscher scoring system. Because in its size class they just dont get any better. ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K |
| Posted: 11/27/2006 1:30:43 AM | |
| P: 11/27/2006 5:01:51 AM | |
Paul-Antwerp Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,908 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 9/3/2002 |
Date: 11/27/2006 1:30:43 AM Author: strmrdr Date: 11/27/2006 1:07:28 AM Author: kenny Is there enough information out this early to predict if this asscher will get an AGS 0 cut rating? In my opinion ignoring polish/symmetry for a second if this stone dont score AGS0 in performance then there is a serious problem with the AGS asscher scoring system. Because in its size class they just dont get any better. It is far too soon to say anything about the scores of current Asschers on the upcoming AGS-system. Remember the not too distant past, when AGS just put us on another planet, with their princess-grading-system. Live long, Paul Slegers |
| Posted: 11/27/2006 5:01:51 AM | |
| P: 11/28/2006 9:14:10 PM | |
beryl Cut Rock Total Posts: 185 Last Post: 12/4/2008 Member Since: 11/6/2003 |
Date: 11/27/2006 5:01:51 AM Paul: Please explain what you mean 'just put us on another planet'
Author: Paul-Antwerp Date: 11/27/2006 1:30:43 AM Author: strmrdr Date: 11/27/2006 1:07:28 AM Author: kenny Is there enough information out this early to predict if this asscher will get an AGS 0 cut rating? In my opinion ignoring polish/symmetry for a second if this stone dont score AGS0 in performance then there is a serious problem with the AGS asscher scoring system. Because in its size class they just dont get any better. It is far too soon to say anything about the scores of current Asschers on the upcoming AGS-system. Remember the not too distant past, when AGS just put us on another planet, with their princess-grading-system. Live long, Bruce L. Harding |
| Posted: 11/28/2006 9:14:10 PM | |
| P: 11/28/2006 9:25:47 PM | |
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Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,579 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
Hi Beryl Paul will be sound asleep - so may I start his answer before you go to sleep? Date: 11/28/2006 9:14:10 PM Author: beryl Date: 11/27/2006 5:01:51 AM Paul: Please explain what you mean 'just put us on another planet'Author: Paul-Antwerp Date: 11/27/2006 1:30:43 AM Author: strmrdr Date: 11/27/2006 1:07:28 AM Author: kenny Is there enough information out this early to predict if this asscher will get an AGS 0 cut rating? In my opinion ignoring polish/symmetry for a second if this stone dont score AGS0 in performance then there is a serious problem with the AGS asscher scoring system. Because in its size class they just dont get any better. It is far too soon to say anything about the scores of current Asschers on the upcoming AGS-system. Remember the not too distant past, when AGS just put us on another planet, with their princess-grading-system. Live long, AGS will be guiding cutters to 'sweet spots' using their ASET modelling etc. This is an example of a stone with a very small table, rather shallow depth etc that it is highly unlikely anyone would ever "chance" upon as a proportion set. AGS found it during their research. I have shown it here with Kenny's stone and various DiamCalc scores. Kenny's stone is exceptional - but there will be more exceptional possabilities once AGS publish their cutters guide lines. I hope I got that right Paul  Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 11/28/2006 9:25:47 PM | |
| P: 11/29/2006 6:57:38 AM | |
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Paul-Antwerp Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,908 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 9/3/2002 |
Nice example, Garry, and good to hear from you again, Bruce. Basically, what I learned from the AGS-princess-system, is the following. Most researchers in the field of diamonds are looking at existing stones, in order to draw conclusions on patterns in light performance, and how good a certain shape can perform. Because AGS worked with virtual diamonds, they have given us proportion-combinations, which no cutter on earth was using. Most were not even close to the existing way of cutting princess-cuts. But, where the existing way would now score AGS-4 at best, or thereabout, we now have combo's which score AGS-0, and whose light performance is close to that of an AGS-0 round brilliant. In a sense, they have put us on another planet in this way. I do not know whether we will experience the same thing in other shapes, although Garry gives a nice example here. But the recent history in princess-cuts taught me to be careful in predicting an AGS-grade, if I did not study the system in detail yet. In other words, if we did not cut some stones within that system yet. Live long, Paul Slegers |
| Posted: 11/29/2006 6:57:38 AM | |
| P: 11/29/2006 10:01:05 AM | |
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strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003 |
couple things.... An asscher can be very bright but butt fugly. Once Jon stopped using the b-scope to select asschers his quality went way up on them. As Paul was quick to point out shallow asschers are not going to be cut for $$ reasons. I have found some very high performance shallowish combos but they will never be cut for that reason. Brightness is the enemy of contrast in an asscher and without enough contrast to form patterns an asscher is just as boring as a princess cut. ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K |
| Posted: 11/29/2006 10:01:05 AM | |
| P: 11/29/2006 11:05:31 AM | |
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Paul-Antwerp Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,908 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 9/3/2002 |
Date: 11/29/2006 10:01:05 AM Author: strmrdr As Paul was quick to point out shallow asschers are not going to be cut for $$ reasons. I have found some very high performance shallowish combos but they will never be cut for that reason. Clarification. It is difficult to find a rough stone, in which such shallow cut makes sense. With the right piece of rough, it is a wonderful solution. Live long, Paul Slegers |
| Posted: 11/29/2006 11:05:31 AM | |
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