Diamond Jewelry Forums

Picture Gallery

Video Gallery

|

Search |

Posted Today |

Most Active |

Help

ť Home ť

ť Diamond Prices and Grading ť

ť RockyTalky ť

ť Unnerved by local appraisers' procedures

Unnerved by local appraisers' procedures

P: 11/3/2006 6:53:13 PM
JoelCFC25 Rough Rock Total Posts: 3 Last Post: 11/4/2006 Member Since: 11/3/2006	I just got engaged, and presented my lovely bride-to-be with an engagement ring. The setting and the stone were sourced separately, the jeweler through whom I got the setting actually performed the mounting of the stone. We need to get the ring appraised for insurance purposes, obviously. I have done a lot of searching of this board prior to posting this thread, so I realize that the vast majority of users would recommend having the stone appraised loose, and then again after setting. Obviously that did not occur in our case, so please consider that outside the scope of this thread, regardless of how critical you may be of my decision making. I first looked at the Appraisers link of this site and found two gentlemen here in the Twin Cities. One of them I am skeptical to deal with because I left a perfectly clear message on the individual's voice mail and never heard a single thing in reply. The other claims to do in-home appraisals and my fiancee's gut instinct is to be leery of that. We called a couple of local jewelers using the Find an Appraiser link on the AGS website. Both indicated that they would need to hold the stone for anywhere from a couple days to a week. One even said they would unmount the stone. Perhaps I am overly paranoid, but both of those things set alarm bells ringing. Having read of individuals on this site who will do in-person appraisals, I am wondering if this "you'll have to leave it with us for a week" approach is common? And yes, I am also aware of the considerations to be made of an appraiser who is also in the business of selling jewelry. The stone is an AGS 0 round but does not happen to have any inscription on the girdle, so while the reasonable part of my brain says there is no obvious reason to distrust, the paranoid side says "how will you know?".... In my searches I failed to find any threads that would indicate the responses we got from local appraisers are standard fare or not. If someone would be so kind as to reassure me or suggest an alternate strategy, I would be grateful. Joel
Posted: 11/3/2006 6:53:13 PM

There are 15 replies to this message. There are 15 replies on this page.

P: 11/3/2006 7:16:11 PM
swingirl Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,283 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 4/6/2006	There are appraisers who will do an appraisal with you there. You came in, they do their thing, talk to you about what they are doing and the results and you leave (it might take a while for them to type up the official paperwork). You need to feel comfortable with anyone you leave your ring with. I would NOT want my stone taken out of the mounting!! There is no need for that if you have an AGS document. Hopefully, someone will have a recommendation in your area.
Posted: 11/3/2006 7:16:11 PM

P: 11/3/2006 7:21:13 PM
ForteKitty Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,414 Last Post: 8/6/2009 Member Since: 10/7/2004	NO WAY! My jewler was able to do an unofficial appraisal just by using a loupe, the measuring gauge, and some other lights. If your diamond has an AGS report, they don't need to unmount it. What if they chip it?!?
Posted: 11/3/2006 7:21:13 PM

P: 11/3/2006 7:22:40 PM
shel Cut Rock Total Posts: 141 Last Post: 12/2/2008 Member Since: 8/28/2006	Sorry to hear about your experience but that doesn't sound normal. You should try to get an appraiser who is independent and who can do the work in your presence, without the ring leaving your sight. In no case should they unmount the stone without your permission. I looked for appraisers in Minnesota using Pricescope and found only 1 name with full info. Is that person one of the gentlemen you tried contacting? Shel
Posted: 11/3/2006 7:22:40 PM

P: 11/3/2006 7:48:35 PM
JoelCFC25 Rough Rock Total Posts: 3 Last Post: 11/4/2006 Member Since: 11/3/2006	Thank you all for the replies so far. The gentleman I attempted to contact was Harry Cannon, who is listed on this site. My voice mail left my name (even spelled it), my phone number, and a fairly detailed message of what I was looking for. Never got a call back. I am hesitant to do business with someone who gives the appearance of being dismissive or inattentive to potential customers. I am definitely put off by the idea of the stone being unmounted (with or without my permission), that seems unreasonable. I am willing to accept the tradeoff of what might be considered a less than perfect appraisal, if that's what you get by treating the ring as a whole without separating it. Simply leaving the ring with someone for days on end would require extraordinary reassurances in my mind. I understand the need to be thorough but that just seems over the top. I think we will try to contact the other Minnesota appraiser listed on this site, a Mr. Buchowsky I think it was. Thank you everyone!
Posted: 11/3/2006 7:48:35 PM

P: 11/3/2006 8:43:18 PM
Modified Brilliant Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,148 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 3/24/2005	NO...a diamond should never be removed from a setting to perform an appraisal. Only in very certain instances, that might apply with client consent. An appraiser/gemologist in a retail store might also be the manager, owner or top salesperson who has 1000 other tasks to perform on a daily basis. I know of a few AGS stores where this is the case. Therefore, they ask that you leave your item to be appraised for one day or a few days...longer is unreasonable. An independent appraiser, in most cases works by appointment only. You (the client) receives the undivided attention that you deserve. Your item is usually appraised while you watch and any questions that you may have should be answered. An independent appraiser is serious about his/her profession and provides superior customer relations which includes very timely return of phone calls and e-mails. Ideally, in a perfect world, all appraisers would adhere to these fundamental practices. www.metrojewelryappraisers.com Jeff Averbook, G.G. Graduate Gemologist since 1986. Member NAJA. Life Member AIN.
Posted: 11/3/2006 8:43:18 PM

P: 11/3/2006 8:48:19 PM
denverappraiser Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,614 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 7/21/2004	1) Waiting. Many stores dont have an appraiser working there full time. They either send the work out to an outside contractor or the appraiser has a route that brings them by the store occasionally. In the former case you have no choice to leave it or shop elsewhere. In the latter you may be able to schedule an appointment with the appraiser on whatever day it is that they are expected to be there. Most appraisers are very accustomed to this request and have some sort of way of addressing it. 2) Home appraisals. A fair number of appraisers are pretty low budget and single person businesses that prefer to avoid the costs associated with maintaining an office. One way to do this is to offer a strictly portable service. This is generally more for their convenience and security than yours but it can often be a good service. It is a little difficult to carry much in the way of tools and they are therefore sometimes limited in the services they can offer but this is not, in and of itself, a reason to avoid a particular appraiser. 3) Pulling stones from the mounting. There is almost never a good reason to do this on a piece that isnt already known to be damaged or one that isnt being disassembled for some other reason, like to reset the stones into a new mounting. Every now and then its is helpful for clients who are selling certain very expensive items that need a GIA report to document specific details like origin of color. This is way outside the range of a typical appraisal assignment. 4) Voicemail manners. I agree, bad manners is a bad sign. I dont answer my telephone when Im with a client, which is a fair amount of the time, because I feel it prevents me from giving them the full attention that they deserve. This means that callers are often greeted by my voicemail when they call and I find myself making several return calls between clients. If the caller is equally difficult to reach directly it can be sort of cumbersome to make telephone contact. Some people find this pretty disconcerting and unbusinesslike but I feel it allows me to offer a better service and it saves me from needing to hire a secretary and putting up with the added costs, security concerns, privacy issues and other problems that this would then entail. I surely occasionally miss a few and I hereby apologize to anyone Ive dumped this way. It surely costs me some customers in the form of people who refuse to leave a message or who leave something that is incomprehensible, but it still seems like a sensible approach for my particular business. Neil Beaty GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA Professional Appraisals in Denver There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.
Posted: 11/3/2006 8:48:19 PM

P: 11/3/2006 9:07:23 PM
Modified Brilliant Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,148 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 3/24/2005	Neil is right. I agree. I also won't answer the phone if am with a client (which is often the case). It's your time and it would be rude to do this. Please be understanding if I can't return your call immediately. I check my messages as often as possible www.metrojewelryappraisers.com Jeff Averbook, G.G. Graduate Gemologist since 1986. Member NAJA. Life Member AIN.
Posted: 11/3/2006 9:07:23 PM

P: 11/3/2006 9:13:54 PM
tdiggity Rough Rock Total Posts: 65 Last Post: 6/5/2007 Member Since: 10/23/2006	I know Mr. Buchkowsky. He is a great guy. I would take it there. One of my friends worked for him for years while she was in college at Northwestern. He is very respectful and is even supportive of the online thing (has his own system for it). I'd give him a try!
Posted: 11/3/2006 9:13:54 PM

P: 11/3/2006 9:30:48 PM
RockDoc Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,509 Last Post: 6/17/2007 Member Since: 8/16/2000	Date: 11/3/2006 8:43:18 PM Author: Modified Brilliant NO...a diamond should never be removed from a setting to perform an appraisal. Only in very certain instances, that might apply with client consent. An appraiser/gemologist in a retail store might also be the manager, owner or top salesperson who has 1000 other tasks to perform on a daily basis. I know of a few AGS stores where this is the case. Therefore, they ask that you leave your item to be appraised for one day or a few days...longer is unreasonable. An independent appraiser, in most cases works by appointment only. You (the client) receives the undivided attention that you deserve. Your item is usually appraised while you watch and any questions that you may have should be answered. An independent appraiser is serious about his/her profession and provides superior customer relations which includes very timely return of phone calls and e-mails. Ideally, in a perfect world, all appraisers would adhere to these fundamental practices. www.metrojewelryappraisers.com Never removed from the mounting? Jeff, I respectfully do not agree. Whether or not to unset a stone I believe has to do with the scope of the assignment, and what the client needs to know. Many of the tests for color, clarity, proportion simply done in mountings are nothing more than guesses. If the client wants a guess, and they realize the risk of grading stones in mountings that is fine, but in the situations where the view of the stone is extremely limited, the appraiser needs to seriously consider will "damage" the customer by rendering potentially inaccurate information, and good ethics sometimes results in refusing the assignment. In my practice, I internvew the customer who brings in a mounted piece, and take a look at it first, then make a decision as to the importance of examining it set or unset. If I feel I can't see what I need to see to make a reasonably accurate conclusion, then I want it to be unset, or I don't do the job. Guess it's a call of how accurate you want to be. This obivously wouldn't apply to stone that a clarity grade can be made from viewing the stone mounted such as I-1 etc, and even some SI-1's. But for VVS ones, it is far more difficult to be accurate, and again this is a situation by situation call. Needless to say it depends on how the stone is set. If it is in a simple prong setting it is reasonably easy with little risk to do. For stones that are set with major lab documentation, what I do is limited to coming up with a money valuation, not a gemological one. I state in the report that I have relied on the quality grading details of the major lab report. So Never Say Never.... Rockdoc Bill Leiberum 1948-2007 Thanks for everything and Rest In Peace,Bill.
Posted: 11/3/2006 9:30:48 PM

P: 11/3/2006 9:59:50 PM
Modified Brilliant Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,148 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 3/24/2005	Date: 11/3/2006 9:30:48 PM Author: RockDoc Date: 11/3/2006 8:43:18 PM Author: Modified Brilliant NO...a diamond should never be removed from a setting to perform an appraisal. Only in very certain instances, that might apply with client consent. An appraiser/gemologist in a retail store might also be the manager, owner or top salesperson who has 1000 other tasks to perform on a daily basis. I know of a few AGS stores where this is the case. Therefore, they ask that you leave your item to be appraised for one day or a few days...longer is unreasonable. An independent appraiser, in most cases works by appointment only. You (the client) receives the undivided attention that you deserve. Your item is usually appraised while you watch and any questions that you may have should be answered. An independent appraiser is serious about his/her profession and provides superior customer relations which includes very timely return of phone calls and e-mails. Ideally, in a perfect world, all appraisers would adhere to these fundamental practices. www.metrojewelryappraisers.com Never removed from the mounting? Jeff, I respectfully do not agree. Whether or not to unset a stone I believe has to do with the scope of the assignment, and what the client needs to know. Many of the tests for color, clarity, proportion simply done in mountings are nothing more than guesses. If the client wants a guess, and they realize the risk of grading stones in mountings that is fine, but in the situations where the view of the stone is extremely limited, the appraiser needs to seriously consider will 'damage' the customer by rendering potentially inaccurate information, and good ethics sometimes results in refusing the assignment. In my practice, I internvew the customer who brings in a mounted piece, and take a look at it first, then make a decision as to the importance of examining it set or unset. If I feel I can't see what I need to see to make a reasonably accurate conclusion, then I want it to be unset, or I don't do the job. Guess it's a call of how accurate you want to be. This obivously wouldn't apply to stone that a clarity grade can be made from viewing the stone mounted such as I-1 etc, and even some SI-1's. But for VVS ones, it is far more difficult to be accurate, and again this is a situation by situation call. Needless to say it depends on how the stone is set. If it is in a simple prong setting it is reasonably easy with little risk to do. For stones that are set with major lab documentation, what I do is limited to coming up with a money valuation, not a gemological one. I state in the report that I have relied on the quality grading details of the major lab report. So Never Say Never.... Rockdoc Rockdoc, Please see my second sentence. Of course, there will be instances when a client will want you to remove the diamond. Is it the "norm?" No it is not. www.metrojewelryappraisers.com Jeff Averbook, G.G. Graduate Gemologist since 1986. Member NAJA. Life Member AIN.
Posted: 11/3/2006 9:59:50 PM

P: 11/3/2006 11:24:41 PM
jazmine Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,013 Last Post: 11/17/2009 Member Since: 7/12/2005	Just wanted to add that there is nothing wrong with an at-home appraisal. My appraiser, who was wonderful and is a member here, has an office and also a portable gem lab that he uses to do appraisals on the road. Please don't let this be a deciding factor.
Posted: 11/3/2006 11:24:41 PM

P: 11/3/2006 11:45:30 PM
lost_boy Rough Rock Total Posts: 10 Last Post: 11/7/2006 Member Since: 10/18/2006	Joel, Give Harry Cannon another call. I just called him on Thursday and set up an appointment for Friday morning. He spent about an hour and a half Friday morning appraising my ring (already mounted) and all while I was sitting there. He then explained his findings, his professional opinion, and answered any and all of my questions. He knows his stuff and is extremely professional and helpful. I think he's a busy guy but is very good at what he does. In fact, he inspected both of Dante Culpepper's ear-rings, both of which were around four carrats each. Give him another call. You can sit in on the appraisal with him. Hope this helps. Mike
Posted: 11/3/2006 11:45:30 PM

P: 11/4/2006 1:44:26 PM
Richard Sherwood Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,879 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 9/25/2002	Date: 11/3/2006 11:24:41 PM Author: jazmine Just wanted to add that there is nothing wrong with an at-home appraisal. My appraiser, who was wonderful and is a member here, has an office and also a portable gem lab that he uses to do appraisals on the road. Please don't let this be a deciding factor. Thanks for the plug, Jazmine. Probably a third of my business is done on a mobile basis. Some people love the convenience of it (including banks, attorneys & trust departments), as they can carry on with their day at home or their office instead of having to sit in my office for hours on end. They also love the fact that the jewelry never leaves their sight. My equipment packs into seven cases that fit neatly on a collapsible dolly. It takes me fifteen minutes to set up and fifteen to break down. Once I'm set up the client has the full benefit of all the equipment I use daily in my office (including the SAS2000, which is a rugged portable unit). Mobile work can lead to some interesting scenarios. The longest mobile job I've done so far was a nineteen day job for a wealthy couple in Bird Key, Sarasota. I sat overlooking the ocean from their mansion while being served food and drink by their chef. It was only really a ten day job, but I stretched it to nineteen because I was having so much fun. Rich, Independent GG Appraiser Sarasota Gemological Laboratory
Posted: 11/4/2006 1:44:26 PM

P: 11/4/2006 1:46:00 PM
JoelCFC25 Rough Rock Total Posts: 3 Last Post: 11/4/2006 Member Since: 11/3/2006	Terrific replies from everyone. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the input. For reference, here is a picture of the ring: close up It's a Jeff Cooper setting and a .91ct stone. We are both thrilled with it, when I received it from the jeweler I was just ecstatic, it exceeded my expectations. If anyone is wondering, I wouldn't hesitate in the slightest to recommend dealing with Mindy Robbins of Robbins Jewelers in Philadelphia (not to be confused with Robbins Brothers). She operates weddingband.com and was extremely gracious with her time, even dealing with me long distance.
Posted: 11/4/2006 1:46:00 PM

P: 11/4/2006 1:54:24 PM
Richard Sherwood Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,879 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 9/25/2002	Date: 11/3/2006 7:48:35 PM Author: JoelCFC25 I am definitely put off by the idea of the stone being unmounted (with or without my permission), that seems unreasonable. I am willing to accept the tradeoff of what might be considered a less than perfect appraisal, if that's what you get by treating the ring as a whole without separating it. Simply leaving the ring with someone for days on end would require extraordinary reassurances in my mind. I understand the need to be thorough but that just seems over the top. I always tell clients that I consider loose diamond appraisals "100%" appraisals, while a mounted diamond appraisal is more like a "93%" appraisal. Not quite as accurate, but you can usually work around the mounting and get a decent job done. I would not advise removing the diamond, unless there was an extenuating circumstance of some sort. Particularly if the stone already has a major lab report which the appraiser can refer to for a second opinion. As for leaving the diamond with an appraiser, I don't see a need for that if the appraiser is local to you. Most appraisers (who do appraisals for a living) are happy to set up an appointment where they do your stone while-you-wait-and-watch. I personally prefer that method, as the diamond never leaves the client's sight and you have the pleasure of their company while appraising. Rich, Independent GG Appraiser Sarasota Gemological Laboratory
Posted: 11/4/2006 1:54:24 PM

Previous Page

Next Page

Ť Diamond size in wedding band Ť

ť GIA EX/EX- Always good performers? ť

Next Topics
GIA Ex CUT - always good performers? sourcing stones eternity band for an ering.. thoughts please! Which Princess?? Need advice Pavilion angle- princess E ring help PLEASE !!! AGSL ranking of cut Almost pulling the trigger... opinion on this diamond? Pictures of my WF upgrade where to Buy? Update on search for a pear... Terminology for part of Rign Why is this Diamond Cheaper need a lot of help What happens to the trade ins? whiteflash setting size question. Help with Solasfera Matching Wedding Bands....separate from E-Ring? Where in the World is Best? more 'sparkly' and brilliant...radiant, princess, or jubilee? Pricescope gurus I need advice on this Round Brilliant A Jaffe Ring - opinions pls!! Van Craeynest antique design settings Needing Help... Diamond avice for a novice 1.783ct. bargain Emerald cut dilemma - Opinions needed Need cost of resizing (in Philadelphia area) Ebay seller 5th-ave-jewels JEWELERS HELP!!! Can this ring be re-sized??? Diamond advice/suggestion for 1st timer

Jump to:

Contact Us \| Back Home \| Privacy Statement \| Forum Agreement \| Forum Policies
Ideal BB Version: 0.1.5.4.beta1	Message forum software powered by the Ideal BB

Pricescope - Knowledge - Diamond Prices - Tools - Resources - About

Š 2000-2009 Pricescope. Terms of Use Privacy Policy Disclaimer
forum archives