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Help me choose between 2 beautiful diamonds!!!!

P: 9/6/2006 5:00:27 PM
dms23 Rough Rock Total Posts: 11 Last Post: 2/1/2007 Member Since: 9/6/2006	I am going back and forth and have done quite a bit of research to narrow down my choices to the following 2 diamonds. Which, in your opinion is the better "deal?" I am going through Mervis -- while they may be a tad more expensive than Blue Nile or other internet retailers, I know someone there that is wonderful, and their service is unparalleled. Thus, I am happy paying a bit more of a premium for this type of establishment. These are the two round diamonds: 1) GIA 1.75 carat / VS2 / G Since it is an older GIA report (late 2005), it does not have all the information such as crown and pavilion angles. Here is the info it does have: 7.94 - 7.98 x 4.61mm Depth: 57.9% Table: 59% Girdle: Very thin to thin, faceted Culet: None Polish: Very Good Symmetry: Very good Fluorescence: None PRICE: $17,500 2) AGS 1.73 carat / VS1 / E 7.68 - 7.72 x 4.80mm Table: 57% Depth: 62.3% Crown: 15.5%; 35.6 degrees Pavilion: 43.3%; 41.0 degrees Faceted 1.0% to 1.9% Pointed AGS Ideal (0) Cut Grade Polish: Ideal Symmetry: Ideal Proportions: Ideal Fluorescence: Inert PRICE: $19,400 My question is, is the difference in price worth it? Both are spectacular diamonds, and either way, I will likely be happy, right? I'm just looking for nit-picking... either way. Your help is appreciated!
Posted: 9/6/2006 5:00:27 PM

There are 20 replies to this message. There are 20 replies on this page.

P: 9/6/2006 5:03:59 PM
JulieN Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,147 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 7/25/2005	Is the AGS report on #2 light performance based? Looks and numbers aside, I do not like the VTN girdle on #1. If you have the GIA number, you can look up the angles, though the shallow depth is probably not a good sign.
Posted: 9/6/2006 5:03:59 PM

P: 9/6/2006 5:23:47 PM
diamondseeker2006 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 17,609 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 1/11/2006	I don't think it is nit-picking because I don't see these two stones as equal. #1 is waaaay too shallow and has a very thin girdle. It would not be considered ideal or excellent cut, I don't think (but I'm too lazy to go look up the numbers for you!). #2 is better, but it faces up a little smaller than others it's size because it is pretty deep. It's better if you can stay at 62% depth or above. I totally respect your wanting to buy from a particular jeweler, so I am not attempting to sway you except to suggest that you ask your jeweler to bring in some more stones for you to see. Here's an example of a similar size stone with ideal cut: H VS2 1.76 cts., 7.75mm $16,470. http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/2366/ ~~~ When in doubt...don't.~~~
Posted: 9/6/2006 5:23:47 PM

P: 9/6/2006 7:11:45 PM
dms23 Rough Rock Total Posts: 11 Last Post: 2/1/2007 Member Since: 9/6/2006	I'm not sure if it is light-performance based. I am just using the information off of the AGS certification that is online. The link to find the actual certification is here: http://www.mervisdiamond.com/inventory/diamonds/dia_results.php3?shape=ROUND&fromprice=15000&toprice=22000&fromsize=&tosize=&order=order+by+size+asc You can find it by item # (80170) or by other stats (1.75/G/VS2) Also, I am a relatively new buyer, so I don't know too much about why a specific depth or girdle is bad or good. Any more details would be greatly helpful.
Posted: 9/6/2006 7:11:45 PM

P: 9/6/2006 7:35:25 PM
JulieN Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,147 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 7/25/2005	A very thin girdle poses durability problems. The purpose of a diamond is to return light to the viewer. There some variables that the cutter can control in order to return more light to the viewer. The first stone is very shallow, which will not return light in the direction of the viewer. The crown angle was 33, and the PA was 40.4 The second stone is overly deep, and will allow light to leak out of the diamond. Also, the second stone's AGS report is 2006, but it is not light performance-based. A cautious shopper may assume that such a stone would not pass the light performance test.
Posted: 9/6/2006 7:35:25 PM

P: 9/6/2006 8:08:00 PM
dms23 Rough Rock Total Posts: 11 Last Post: 2/1/2007 Member Since: 9/6/2006	Thanks Julie (and others). This is a big help. Tell me if this diamond is better or worse? It is AGS performance-based 1.62 / F / VS2 7.52-7.56 x 4.62mm Depth: 61.3% Table: 56.3% Crown: 15%; 34.6 degrees Pavilion: 43.1%; 40.8 degrees Pointed Faceted: 1.1% to 4.0% Light Performance: 0 Proportion Factors: 0 Finish: 0 Polish: Ideal Symmetry: Ideal PRICE: $17500 This is a little smaller than I intended (as compared with the previous stones) but if it will reflect more light, its probably worth the difference, right?!
Posted: 9/6/2006 8:08:00 PM

P: 9/6/2006 8:08:47 PM
JulieN Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,147 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 7/25/2005	You do get to see these in person, right? The F looks very nice on paper.
Posted: 9/6/2006 8:08:47 PM

P: 9/6/2006 8:11:52 PM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	The F sounds great! And visually you are really not losing much. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 9/6/2006 8:11:52 PM

P: 9/6/2006 8:20:24 PM
dms23 Rough Rock Total Posts: 11 Last Post: 2/1/2007 Member Since: 9/6/2006	Unfortunately I don't... Mervis is around the Washington DC area. I lived there over the summer with my girlfriend and we went into the store and really liked their selection. Most importantly though, she is very picky on the settings and we looked long and hard for one she liked. She finally picked out one from Mervis, and although I have the designer and model number, no other store in the country seems to carry it (and trust me, I've tried!). I'm a guy, so obviously I wouldn't be able to tell exactly what she likes, and I feel like their diamond prices are competitive, so I would feel more comfortable going there because I know the setting is the perfect one that she wants. Unfortunately, I have since moved to North Carolina, and don't plan on going back to DC. I suppose, if its important I can make the drive (its only about 4 hours). What can I see in person that I don't see on paper? I'm not a diamond aficionado, so I'm not sure I'd even be able to tell a D color from a G, let alone any of these cut proportions. Now I'm stressing out that I won't get the perfect one! Advice?
Posted: 9/6/2006 8:20:24 PM

P: 9/6/2006 8:25:48 PM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	dm, could you ask the jeweler if he can get you a Sarin report, and possibly an IS image? That would help greatly. Or, could you purchase the stone with the stipulation that if it doesn't pass inspection with an independant appraisor, you get a full refund? That might be best anyway, if they will agree. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 9/6/2006 8:25:48 PM

P: 9/6/2006 8:31:26 PM
dms23 Rough Rock Total Posts: 11 Last Post: 2/1/2007 Member Since: 9/6/2006	I can surely ask. Pardon my ignorance, but what is a SARIN report or IS report? Is it something that can't be told from just looking at the certification? Also, what is an independent appraiser likely to tell me? Wouldn't they just produce a report similar to a GIA or AGL report? If I were to stipulate that I want an independent appraiser, would I need to order the loose diamond without the setting, or is it possible to get it appraised already set? I know these questions probably seem basic (and maybe stupid), but all the help you are giving me is truly appreciated. I'm learning (just slowly!). Not to mention I'm in law school, so if they try anything funny, they're in trouble!
Posted: 9/6/2006 8:31:26 PM

P: 9/6/2006 8:42:07 PM
JulieN Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,147 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 7/25/2005	Sarin is an instrument that scans the proportions of the stone. You do not need one for the F VS2. Ideal Scope: www.ideal-scope.com I have yet to see a "bad" Ideal Scope image of an AGS 0 stone. An independent appraisal is always a good idea, money and time permitting, just so you know exactly what you're getting, be it durability issues, slight disagreements with the lab report, or performance. An appraisal is best done with the stone loose. Yes, some appraisals are very basic...giving you pretty much the same details as a lab report. Some are much more thorough. Also, there are pre-purchase appraisals where the vendor ships the stone to a local appraiser and you can view it before buying. Great thread here on what you can expect from some appraisers who post on PS: http://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=37560; why you should consider an appraisal: http://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=10662; a whole appraisal here: http://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=17770
Posted: 9/6/2006 8:42:07 PM

P: 9/6/2006 8:50:22 PM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	Julie is right, I totally forgot it was an AGS000 stone, which really does rule out the need for sarin and IS. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 9/6/2006 8:50:22 PM

P: 9/6/2006 9:04:53 PM
dms23 Rough Rock Total Posts: 11 Last Post: 2/1/2007 Member Since: 9/6/2006	Wow thanks guys... those other posts are more than helpful. I think thats what I'm going to do -- and just to think that I almost purchased the stone without listening to the advice on here! So, as far as the F VS2 stone, that one doesn't need a Sarin or IS but the others do? Thats because the others (G VS2 and E VS1) don't have the information? Or is it that they likely wouldn't pass the test?
Posted: 9/6/2006 9:04:53 PM

P: 9/6/2006 9:11:58 PM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	Date: 9/6/2006 9:04:53 PM Author: dms23 Wow thanks guys... those other posts are more than helpful. I think thats what I'm going to do -- and just to think that I almost purchased the stone without listening to the advice on here! So, as far as the F VS2 stone, that one doesn't need a Sarin or IS but the others do? Thats because the others (G VS2 and E VS1) don't have the information? Or is it that they likely wouldn't pass the test? Stick with the FVS2, it is by far the best stone. A real winner. No need for the other info. And to your last question, answer is, both. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 9/6/2006 9:11:58 PM

P: 9/6/2006 9:27:36 PM
dms23 Rough Rock Total Posts: 11 Last Post: 2/1/2007 Member Since: 9/6/2006	Does it change your opinion at all that I went to GIA's website and entered the GIA number for the 1.75 G stone, and entered in all the dimensions, angles, etc. into the cutadvisor on pricescope and it came back with a score of 1.2?
Posted: 9/6/2006 9:27:36 PM

P: 9/6/2006 9:38:04 PM
JulieN Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,147 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 7/25/2005	Yes, I saw that. There are certain usage warnings with HCA. http://diamonds.pricescope.com/ideal.asp There are many different environments and viewing conditons that the stone will be in, and certain proportions are better under different circumstances. Unfortunately, you can only have one diamond, and it would be good to have a combination that performs well in more conditions. If you try table=59, CA=34, PA=40.7, that is also HCA=1.2, but it is a combination that will probably be much more pleasing to your eyes. And since that combination isn't a "sweet spot," any variations in symmetry would negatively impact the stone. Also, the GIA stone is a GIA "VG" cut at best due to the girdle, and only VG on finish. That would make it very overpriced compared to: http://www.niceice.com/certcopies/gia15170365/index.htm $17160 Oh, yeah, what's the designer of the setting she liked?
Posted: 9/6/2006 9:38:04 PM

P: 9/6/2006 9:51:52 PM
dms23 Rough Rock Total Posts: 11 Last Post: 2/1/2007 Member Since: 9/6/2006	Its a Judith Conway, but a particular model that very few have even heard of, let alone that they can order. I think it may be a discontinued model, although I'm just guessing there. Judith Conway LS-0183
Posted: 9/6/2006 9:51:52 PM

P: 9/6/2006 10:24:02 PM
diamondseeker2006 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 17,609 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 1/11/2006	Date: 9/6/2006 8:08:00 PM Author: dms23 Thanks Julie (and others). This is a big help. Tell me if this diamond is better or worse? It is AGS performance-based 1.62 / F / VS2 7.52-7.56 x 4.62mm Depth: 61.3% Table: 56.3% Crown: 15%; 34.6 degrees Pavilion: 43.1%; 40.8 degrees Pointed Faceted: 1.1% to 4.0% Light Performance: 0 Proportion Factors: 0 Finish: 0 Polish: Ideal Symmetry: Ideal PRICE: $17500 This is a little smaller than I intended (as compared with the previous stones) but if it will reflect more light, its probably worth the difference, right?! This one looks great! I could probably order this one without further info. I totally understand the setting issues. It's worth it to get the one she really loves because they are hard to find!!! ~~~ When in doubt...don't.~~~
Posted: 9/6/2006 10:24:02 PM

P: 9/7/2006 5:21:56 AM
Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,228 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005	Date: 9/6/2006 10:24:02 PM Author: diamondseeker2006 Date: 9/6/2006 8:08:00 PM Author: dms23 Thanks Julie (and others). This is a big help. Tell me if this diamond is better or worse? It is AGS performance-based 1.62 / F / VS2 7.52-7.56 x 4.62mm Depth: 61.3% Table: 56.3% Crown: 15%; 34.6 degrees Pavilion: 43.1%; 40.8 degrees Pointed Faceted: 1.1% to 4.0% Light Performance: 0 Proportion Factors: 0 Finish: 0 Polish: Ideal Symmetry: Ideal PRICE: $17500 This is a little smaller than I intended (as compared with the previous stones) but if it will reflect more light, its probably worth the difference, right?! This one looks great! I could probably order this one without further info. I totally understand the setting issues. It's worth it to get the one she really loves because they are hard to find!!! Ditto 'Seeks! I would snappity snap this one up Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn
Posted: 9/7/2006 5:21:56 AM

P: 9/7/2006 5:27:11 AM
Giangi Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,530 Last Post: 10/29/2006 Member Since: 1/23/2003	The G and the E are not exciting to me. The F looks, on paper, much better. I'll second everyone else as I think this one is worth a look. _____________ Omnia Mea Mecum Porto. Giangi
Posted: 9/7/2006 5:27:11 AM

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