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ť Need advice on AGS vs GIA

Need advice on AGS vs GIA

P: 2/25/2003 3:30:57 PM
Upgrading_finally Rough Rock Total Posts: 23 Last Post: 4/15/2003 Member Since: 2/25/2003	I am looking into getting a: 1.15 - 1.25 round Ideal cut AGS preferred G/H SI1 Faint Flor okay Do you all think I can get this stone for around $5500? TIA
Posted: 2/25/2003 3:30:57 PM

There are 15 replies to this message. There are 15 replies on this page.

P: 2/25/2003 4:06:54 PM
Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,893 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002	You can definitely get a stone within your parameters for around that pricing. I ran a quick Pscope search and it found over 60 records of stones that are 1.15-1.25c G/H VS2/SI1 with AGS 0 ratings (Ideal Cut, Ideal Symm, Ideal Polish) and there were a bunch in the $5500-6000 range (mostly 1.15-1.18c G VS2/SI1s and 1.20 H/VS2 and 1.24 H/SI1). This does not mean that there are 64 stones, since many vendors have access to the same stones, but there is a good amount out there. Keep in mind that when you say 'Ideal' cut, that is just a brand name that someone can slap on a stone to make it sell for more $$. If you are looking for an AGS 0 stone, that is something you can easily search on, BUT it does not mean that all stones in the AGS 0 range are going to be beautiful stones. The AGS 0 range is very large. and far from foolproof. If you are looking at stones online, would suggest you request the vendor send you enlarged pictures of the stones and IdealScope images so that you can gauge the light return of the stones and see where the leakage is of any serious contenders. Also, run the crown and pav angles through the HCA and see what sort of scores the stones you are considering get (under 2.0 is excellent). Using these tools can help you narrow down the AGS 0 range stones to find the ones that really 'shine'. Good luck!! ________________________________ "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein
Posted: 2/25/2003 4:06:54 PM

P: 2/25/2003 4:11:26 PM
Upgrading_finally Rough Rock Total Posts: 23 Last Post: 4/15/2003 Member Since: 2/25/2003	Thanks! I always thought that if I ask for an Ideal stone with AGS cert, I'm sure to get the best stone. But I sure will ask for the specifics!
Posted: 2/25/2003 4:11:26 PM

P: 2/25/2003 4:25:24 PM
optimized Cut Rock Total Posts: 306 Last Post: 11/1/2003 Member Since: 12/28/2002	Hi Tia, I think you should certainly be able to find a very nice diamond within those specs for the price you mentioned. I don't have the time to do a major search right at the moment, but I'd recommend you check out the Pricescope diamond search engine, as well as some of the fine retailers who frequent the boards. As is usually the case when a question like this pops up, I did a quick search of SuperbCert and came up with one especially attractive-looking value that appears to be quite reasonably priced: Product: 1652 VertCert: 1180451 Cert: GIA Price: $5,643.00 Cut: Super Ideal Color: H Clarity: SI1 Carat Weight: 1.1 Ever-so-slightly smaller than your criteria, but right around your budget. The BScope looks extremely good on it, and although the inclusions are under the table the high-res photos don't show anything (although I DO wish SC would post some dark-field photos for stones like these). Probably well worth checking out while you're searching... -Tim "Economy of words has never been my strong suit"
Posted: 2/25/2003 4:25:24 PM

P: 2/25/2003 4:47:42 PM
Upgrading_finally Rough Rock Total Posts: 23 Last Post: 4/15/2003 Member Since: 2/25/2003	Thanks Tim. I'm actually looking for the look of 1.25, but thinking that I want to pay for the price of an 1.15 only! So I think 1.15 would be the smallest I would go. Another question, what do the measurements on the stones mean? Does that translate into the % of crown and pavilion?
Posted: 2/25/2003 4:47:42 PM

P: 2/25/2003 5:01:42 PM
Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,893 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002	Measurements mean the following...for the most part! Take a round brilliant that measures 7.12-7.18x4.08 (my stone's measurements!) means that the diameter (top) of the stone is 7.12-7.18 (when measured at various points), this also means that my stone is not perfectly round but that is okay because it's pretty hard to find a perfectly round stone! But you do want to find a stone that has a small range of measurements, for example a 7.10-7.30 would mean the stone is pretty asymmetrical which you really don't want in a round stone. A smaller range is better. You can also use these numbers to gauge how well cut your stone is. For example, my stone has a diameter of 7.12-7.18 for a 1.23c. But really an excellent cut 1.23c should have a smaller diameter...maybe more around 6.95-7mm...mine is a little bit shallow (hence the slightly larger diameter and slightly more shallow depth). The last number (4.08mm) means the depth of the stone as measured from the table to the culet I believe. Your depth will tell you how shallow or deep the stone is (too shallow is not good and too deep means you are paying for extra weight in the bottom of the stone as opposed to the top, and a too deep stone usually looks smaller than it is and has loss of light return). For example, my stone has 4.08mm depth which is a little shallow for a stone of this size, it should be more around 4.24 or so. But if it was 4.50mm it would be too deep. Sorry that was a bit of a ramble but you get the idea! Use the measurements to help you weed out horribly cut stones (e.g. too deep or too shallow), then continue to get the specs on the ones you are considering to finalize the choices. Good luck!! ________________________________ "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein
Posted: 2/25/2003 5:01:42 PM

P: 2/25/2003 5:11:32 PM
Upgrading_finally Rough Rock Total Posts: 23 Last Post: 4/15/2003 Member Since: 2/25/2003	Can I use the measurements that I get and pluck them into HCA? What measurements should a perfectly cut stone have? Thanks.
Posted: 2/25/2003 5:11:32 PM

P: 2/25/2003 5:54:53 PM
Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,893 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002	No the HCA operates by using the following data: crown angle, pavilion angle, culet, table % and total depth %. Some stones you look at will not have the crown and pav angle, ask for a Sarin report which will have the info. OR if you are looking at stones with an AGS cert, the certification will have the angles. GIA does not have angles on its certificates. EGL has the crown and pav percentages which are not as accurate as the angles, but will work in a pinch. Keep in mind, if you are looking at EGL stones, be sure its EGL USA as they are more reputable on grading, and then still get it checked out. There is no one set of measurements for a perfectly cut stone in a carat weight...there are always ranges. You can determine a general range for a well cut stone by searching on A Cut Above, SuperbCert, or Hearts and Arrows stones which are usually pretty well cut, and look in your carat range to find a good indicator of a range of where an excellent cut stone's dimensions should be. But using the measurements is not an exact science, but rather to help you weed out bad stones with obvious depth problems and/or too large crowns. Don't stifle yourself by just looking at a specific range of measurements...but use it as a filter. ________________________________ "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein
Posted: 2/25/2003 5:54:53 PM

P: 2/25/2003 10:16:19 PM
Richard Sherwood Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,874 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 9/25/2002	Mara and Tim, tag-teaming. Nice work guys. Rich, Independent GG Appraiser Sarasota Gemological Laboratory
Posted: 2/25/2003 10:16:19 PM

P: 2/26/2003 4:17:38 AM
Giangi Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,530 Last Post: 10/29/2006 Member Since: 1/23/2003	Check out these: Whiteflash.com: Item Code AGS-3490609 Price US$ $6,520.00 Certification AGS-3490609 Shape A Cut Above H&A Carat 1.153 Color H Clarity SI1 Measurements (mm) 6.82-6.83 x 4.12 Table % 55 Depth % 60.3 Crown Angle ° 34.9 Crown % 15.4 Pavilion Angle ° 40.8 Pavilion % 42.9 Polish Ideal Symmetry Ideal Girdle 0.9%-1.5% Thin to Medium Facet Culet Pointed Fluorescence Inert (this one is slightly over your budget, though) ________________________ http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=11-1-2245 ________________________ http://www.niceice.com/certcopies/gia11665893/index.htm Giangi _____________ Omnia Mea Mecum Porto. Giangi
Posted: 2/26/2003 4:17:38 AM

P: 2/26/2003 10:11:49 AM
Upgrading_finally Rough Rock Total Posts: 23 Last Post: 4/15/2003 Member Since: 2/25/2003	Thanks for all the advise. So should I spring the extra $$ for an AGS stone vs GIA? I know they cost more and now I'm thinking that it's the stats of the diamond that is more important then who graded it. And what do you all think about buying on Ashford or Diamond.com vs the other sites? I have still very afraid of making such a big purchase online and I have a friend who's purchased on Ashford, so I know they are trustworthy. Thanks!
Posted: 2/26/2003 10:11:49 AM

P: 2/26/2003 12:34:21 PM
Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,893 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002	AGS and GIA are both highly reputable grading labs, you should be fine with either and I would not limit your search to just AGS or just GIA. Any diamonds graded by either should be fine. The only difference that sometimes may lead people to target AGS stones is that they give the crown and pav angles of the stone which then lets you use tools such as the HCA and lets some of the residents on here post DiamCalc images of what your stone could look like with light return, etc. With a GIA cert and no Sarin information, you cannot get that extra info. My comments on Ashford.Com, BlueNile.Com, Diamond.Com as the top three most well known sites for buying diamonds on the web...you will pay more for their marketing and branding and it will not necessarily net you a better stone. Sites such as WhiteFlash.Com, SuperbCert.Com, GoodOldGold.Com, DiamondOptics.Com, DiamondWholesale.CC, AffordableDiamonds.Com, BuyDiamondsDirect.Com etc etc are just as reputable as the ones you mentioned, possibly slightly less well-known but with usually excellent customer service and people who really want to help you get the best possible stone for your budget. My experience with BN, and D.Com etc is that the people working their customer service and email and phones etc are not the most knowledgeable about stones as they could be...the other sites definitely have a leg up on that in my mind. Many of the sites I listed have excellent feedback on this forum from past customers...I would check them out, run a Pricescope search, check out Giangi's stones (all nice!), and then when you are close to purchasing, post your stone and choice of vendor on this forum and ask for feedback. People will generally be pretty honest on here with their thoughts. Also run a search on the vendor you are planning to use and read positive and negative posts to make your decision! Be sure there is a return policy also..and get the stone double checked when it arrives from an independent appraiser. Good luck!! ________________________________ "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein
Posted: 2/26/2003 12:34:21 PM

P: 2/26/2003 2:16:38 PM
Giangi Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,530 Last Post: 10/29/2006 Member Since: 1/23/2003	Thank you Mara! _____________ Omnia Mea Mecum Porto. Giangi
Posted: 2/26/2003 2:16:38 PM

P: 6/2/2003 5:53:22 PM
pepito Rough Rock Total Posts: 1 Last Post: 6/2/2003 Member Since: 6/2/2003	probably not
Posted: 6/2/2003 5:53:22 PM

P: 6/2/2003 8:13:30 PM
pqcollectibles Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,441 Last Post: 6/18/2005 Member Since: 2/23/2003	Hi Finally! And, Welcome to the Forum! Chiming in on measurements along the same line as Mara. You said you wanted a 1.25 carat but felt like you would "have to settle" for a 1.15 carat. You can actually get the look without the price premium for hitting the mark. And, why pay for the weight when you can get the look. Ideal cuts have larger diameter/weight ratio than non-ideals, typically. Mara's and other larger table/shallow depth are the exceptions. Mara's diamond is spectacular! And, there are others out there like hers. Most people have Maul store diamonds that loose diameter to weight in depth (below the girdle, hehe) that no one sees. An extremely well CUT, lower carat weight will have the same or larger physical diameter and larger visual presence. I have a .766 carat super ideal H&A with a 6 mm diameter. It is .15 mm larger than a .9 carat diamond that was posted on the forum last week. Sounds small on paper, but is visually larger in real life. And, CUT is the key to fire, sparkle, light return, and the colors of the rainbow. The WOW factor! It doesn't just sit on your finger, it grabs people's eye! A great CUT, even if the carat weight is lower, can have the same physical diameter of a heavier weight and speak volumes in performance. Why use a big word when a diminutive word would be succinct! ____________________________________________________________ Just a regular person trying to be helpful. Consult a Pro prior to purchase!
Posted: 6/2/2003 8:13:30 PM

P: 6/2/2003 11:32:22 PM
optimized Cut Rock Total Posts: 306 Last Post: 11/1/2003 Member Since: 12/28/2002	Surprised to see this old thread from February dredged up again. Wonder how Pepito found this one! LOL! Did we ever find out what happened with Upgrading's search? -Tim "Economy of words has never been my strong suit"
Posted: 6/2/2003 11:32:22 PM

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