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» Need to pick one... pulling my hair out!!!!

Need to pick one... pulling my hair out!!!!

P: 8/25/2006 2:52:12 PM
MarkP1 Rough Rock Total Posts: 39 Last Post: 9/7/2006 Member Since: 8/13/2006	Hi everyone, I have three diamonds to pick from... I'm being picky, but it's a huge decision for me. I need to let the retailer know which two I would like them to ship in so that I can take a look. Please help me determine which two of the three below. On paper they all look to be very nice. Does anything stand out? Thank-you very much for your help. Diamond #1 Round, 1.06, F, VS1 HCA: 1.8 AGA: 1A Combined AGS0 & GIA Excellent: Both Yes (from PDF chart John posted) Depth - 62% Table - 55% C.A. - 34.5 C.H. - 15.5% P.A. - 41 P.D. - 43% Star Length - 55% Lower Half - 75% Girdle - Med. Culet - None Polish & Symmetry - Excellent Fluoro. - None Diamond #2 Round, 1.07, E, VS1 HCA: 1.7 AGA: 1A Combined AGS0 & GIA Excellent: Both Yes (from PDF chart John posted) Depth - 60.6% Table - 56% C.A. - 34.5 C.H. - 15% P.A. - 41 P.D. - 43% Star Length - 50% Lower Half - 75% Girdle - Thin Culet - None Polish & Symmetry - Excellent Fluoro. - None Comments: Surface & Internal Graining not shown Diamond #3 Round, 1.08, F, VVS2 HCA: 1.0 AGA: 1A (C.A. - 1B) Combined AGS0 & GIA Excellent: No (from PDF chart John posted) Depth - 61.5% Table - 56% C.A. - 33.5 C.H. - 14.5% P.A. - 41 P.D. - 43% Star Length - 55% Lower Half - 75% Girdle - Med. - Sl. Thick Culet - None Polish & Symmetry - Excellent Fluoro. - Faint Comments: Additional pinpoints not shown Thanks again.
Posted: 8/25/2006 2:52:12 PM

There are 25 replies to this message. There are 25 replies on this page.

P: 8/25/2006 3:00:42 PM
belle Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,287 Last Post: 4/3/2008 Member Since: 11/19/2004	they all have great potential but since you would have to see #2 to determine what effect the internal/external surface graining would have, i would say nix that one. it's not worth bringing in, just to make that determination. especially since the other two look like they could be great and you don't have that issue. i would go for #1 & #3. (•.Έ(`•.ΈΈ.•΄)Έ.•) ¨`•.Έ belleΈ.• ΄¨ (Έ.•(Έ.•΄ `•.Έ)•.Έ)
Posted: 8/25/2006 3:00:42 PM

P: 8/25/2006 3:15:29 PM
MarkP1 Rough Rock Total Posts: 39 Last Post: 9/7/2006 Member Since: 8/13/2006	Thanks Belle! I am curious to hear what others think.
Posted: 8/25/2006 3:15:29 PM

P: 8/25/2006 3:42:25 PM
JohnQuixote Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,212 Last Post: 5/24/2008 Member Since: 9/9/2004	Mark, all 3 have great potential. I expect #1 and #2 to look more similar to each other, since the crown height on #3 is lower: Perhaps a little more fire in #1 & #2 and a little more brightness in #3. Sometimes graining, pinpoint or clouds are ID'd on a report for sake of thoroughness, but if they're listed as 'not shown' on a GIA report it means they're non-issues (the exception may be clouds in an SI2). Belle is very considerate - and is being cautious on your behalf - but in this case there should be nothing to worry about. John __________________________ John Pollard Whiteflash Director of Education 2004-2007
Posted: 8/25/2006 3:42:25 PM

P: 8/25/2006 4:19:12 PM
strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003	#1 or #2 given just those 3 options and the limited info. With the c/p angles of #3 id want a lgf of 80% not 75% Do you have IS images? ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K
Posted: 8/25/2006 4:19:12 PM

P: 8/25/2006 8:39:17 PM
MarkP1 Rough Rock Total Posts: 39 Last Post: 9/7/2006 Member Since: 8/13/2006	Thank-you for the feedback. Unfortunately, I do not have Ideal-Scope images. I guess my only concerns, and the reason why I am looking for advice is (possible negatives of each stone): Diamond #1 - Depth of 62% Diamond #2 - Internal and Surface graining Diamond #3 - AGA Class 1A (but C.A. - 1B) & it does not fall on the "Combined" AGS0/GIA Excel. chart from John. Thanks John for your comments on "graining"/"pinpoints"/etc.
Posted: 8/25/2006 8:39:17 PM

P: 8/25/2006 8:43:30 PM
JulieN Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,145 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 7/25/2005	1-Not a big deal to me, as the angles are good. 3-Is in GIA EX grade, and as long as it's not a steep/deep combo, it can still be a good thing.
Posted: 8/25/2006 8:43:30 PM

P: 8/25/2006 9:06:36 PM
MarkP1 Rough Rock Total Posts: 39 Last Post: 9/7/2006 Member Since: 8/13/2006	#3 should not be a steep/deep (C.A. - 34.5, P.A. - 41, P.D. - 43.5%) The other thing that is holding me back from eliminating #3 is that it got an HCA score of 1.0
Posted: 8/25/2006 9:06:36 PM

P: 8/26/2006 4:08:13 AM
MarkP1 Rough Rock Total Posts: 39 Last Post: 9/7/2006 Member Since: 8/13/2006	Thanks for everyone's help. I appreciate it. Still not sure which two I'll ask to be brought in... I'll do a little more reading.
Posted: 8/26/2006 4:08:13 AM

P: 8/26/2006 10:30:42 AM
diamondseeker2006 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 17,609 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 1/11/2006	I think I'd want #1 and #2. Why not take the two that qualify as AGS0? Since John said the graining is a non-issue for #2, I might just take #2 over both of the others. ~~~ When in doubt...don't.~~~
Posted: 8/26/2006 10:30:42 AM

P: 8/26/2006 10:43:39 AM
fire&ice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,827 Last Post: 3/30/2009 Member Since: 7/22/2002	I'd pick #2. I like the numbers. The internal graining is a non issue. And, most likely the spreader (face up bigger) of them all. If I were to pick two, then probably #2 & #1. What are the prices attached to each? Are they all 6 1/2 dozen of the other?
Posted: 8/26/2006 10:43:39 AM

P: 8/26/2006 11:46:53 AM
MarkP1 Rough Rock Total Posts: 39 Last Post: 9/7/2006 Member Since: 8/13/2006	Thanks "diamondseeker2006" & "fire&ice" for your opinions. Can someone please clarify this for me... Originally I used the PDF charts that John posted previously to determine (based on Table) if the diamonds were "Combined AGS0 + GIA Excel." Both #1 and #2 came back as "yes" - AGS0 Last night I put the proportions for each into HCA and neither fell within the "white box" therefore neither according to HCA is AGS0??? Why is this? Thanks.
Posted: 8/26/2006 11:46:53 AM

P: 8/26/2006 12:26:46 PM
fire&ice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,827 Last Post: 3/30/2009 Member Since: 7/22/2002	What white box are you talking about? That said, please don't pull your hair out! Honestly, these are some fine stones.
Posted: 8/26/2006 12:26:46 PM

P: 8/26/2006 12:29:56 PM
MarkP1 Rough Rock Total Posts: 39 Last Post: 9/7/2006 Member Since: 8/13/2006	When you run the HCA with your proportions... the results are plotted on the color grid. A certain area is outlined in white and it states above the grid that if your plotted point falls within the white box it's considered AGS0 for that table %.
Posted: 8/26/2006 12:29:56 PM

P: 8/26/2006 12:36:29 PM
JohnQuixote Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,212 Last Post: 5/24/2008 Member Since: 9/9/2004	Mark is talking about the X on the HCA chart falling outside the predicted AGS 0 candidates. John __________________________ John Pollard Whiteflash Director of Education 2004-2007
Posted: 8/26/2006 12:36:29 PM

P: 8/26/2006 12:39:35 PM
JohnQuixote Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,212 Last Post: 5/24/2008 Member Since: 9/9/2004	Mark - don't stress about this. The diamonds you have chosen have great numbers. They are just that: Numbers. The cutting guideline charts AGS provides are for manufacturers... They are a prediction only, and can vary depending on level of detail. For instance, here is the broad GIA/AGS comparison chart you are referring to. In broad terms the numbers on your diamond may qualify for AGS0 (and GIA EX). John __________________________ John Pollard Whiteflash Director of Education 2004-2007
Posted: 8/26/2006 12:39:35 PM

P: 8/26/2006 12:40:40 PM
JohnQuixote Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,212 Last Post: 5/24/2008 Member Since: 9/9/2004	Here is another published AGS cutting chart. On this chart the 34.5/41 combo is also predicted for AGS0. (copyright 2006 AGS, used with permission) John __________________________ John Pollard Whiteflash Director of Education 2004-2007
Posted: 8/26/2006 12:40:40 PM

P: 8/26/2006 12:40:56 PM
belle Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,287 Last Post: 4/3/2008 Member Since: 11/19/2004	mark, the white box identifies ags0 candidates. there is much more that goes into giving the ags0 grade than just numbers. only diamonds that are actually graded ags0 can be termed as such. the hca estimates where these diamonds may fall within the system based on angles but it can't be considered completely accurate. especially with boderline angle combinations. eta: ....der! i see sir john is alread covering this. and, as usual, with much more detail. thanks sir john! (•.Έ(`•.ΈΈ.•΄)Έ.•) ¨`•.Έ belleΈ.• ΄¨ (Έ.•(Έ.•΄ `•.Έ)•.Έ)
Posted: 8/26/2006 12:40:56 PM

P: 8/26/2006 12:42:22 PM
JohnQuixote Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,212 Last Post: 5/24/2008 Member Since: 9/9/2004	Yet another with more detail. This is a guideline chart for near-8mm stones. The 34.5/41 combo is borderline on this one. Again, it's a prediction. (copyright 2005 AGS, used with permission) John __________________________ John Pollard Whiteflash Director of Education 2004-2007
Posted: 8/26/2006 12:42:22 PM

P: 8/26/2006 12:42:56 PM
MarkP1 Rough Rock Total Posts: 39 Last Post: 9/7/2006 Member Since: 8/13/2006	Thank-you everyone! Especially John over the past couple weeks. You have been a huge, HUGE!!!! help in this learning process. Take care, Mark
Posted: 8/26/2006 12:42:56 PM

P: 8/26/2006 12:44:03 PM
JohnQuixote Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,212 Last Post: 5/24/2008 Member Since: 9/9/2004	And for near-6mm stones. On this chart 34.5/41 is outside AGS0. Again, it's a prediction. These are all broad indicators. Details of optical symmetry, minor facet configuration, overall depth, etc. come into play in the actual analysis. The only way to be certain a diamond is AGS0 is to submit it to AGS for the actual light performance grade. John __________________________ John Pollard Whiteflash Director of Education 2004-2007
Posted: 8/26/2006 12:44:03 PM

P: 8/26/2006 12:44:28 PM
JohnQuixote Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,212 Last Post: 5/24/2008 Member Since: 9/9/2004	Here's the chart. (copyright 2004 AGS, used with permission) John __________________________ John Pollard Whiteflash Director of Education 2004-2007
Posted: 8/26/2006 12:44:28 PM

P: 8/26/2006 12:44:53 PM
strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003	honestly you have gone as far as you can with numbers. Either need more info or just buy one or move to a vendor that provides enough information that your comfortable with your purchase or have one of them sent to an independent appraiser or to you to look at in person. ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K
Posted: 8/26/2006 12:44:53 PM

P: 8/26/2006 12:47:41 PM
JohnQuixote Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,212 Last Post: 5/24/2008 Member Since: 9/9/2004	The last thing to remember is that you're working from GIA reports - so the numbers are a bit rounded. You may actually have 40.9 PA on diamonds #1 and #2. It's not enough to stress over because you're going to SEE them. You have 3 very promising candidates... Don't stress anymore, just choose 2 and check 'em out. John __________________________ John Pollard Whiteflash Director of Education 2004-2007
Posted: 8/26/2006 12:47:41 PM

P: 8/26/2006 12:49:53 PM
JohnQuixote Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,212 Last Post: 5/24/2008 Member Since: 9/9/2004	Date: 8/26/2006 12:42:56 PM Author: MarkP1 Thank-you everyone! Especially John over the past couple weeks. You have been a huge, HUGE!!!! help in this learning process. Take care, Mark Hey Mark, it's what we're all here for. Think of everyone in this thread as your support group! I have to run and catch a flight to GIA Symposium. Let us know what you decide. John __________________________ John Pollard Whiteflash Director of Education 2004-2007
Posted: 8/26/2006 12:49:53 PM

P: 8/26/2006 12:50:19 PM
MarkP1 Rough Rock Total Posts: 39 Last Post: 9/7/2006 Member Since: 8/13/2006	Sounds great! Yesterday I ordered an Ideal-Scope and I think I have enough info. now to make the right decision. Thanks again.
Posted: 8/26/2006 12:50:19 PM

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