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 » RockyTalky
»  » Desirable Princess Cut Table/Depth?
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Desirable Princess Cut Table/Depth? |
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| P: 2/23/2003 8:36:09 PM | |
ccoobs Rough Rock Total Posts: 11 Last Post: 2/25/2003 Member Since: 2/23/2003 |
I've been shopping around for a stone online and locally, but haven't come across "the perfect stone" just yet. I'm wondering why almost all the stones I see have tables that are 75%+? Is this normal for a princess cut? I can't seem to find what an ideal princess cut diamond should have for stats? Also, has anyone bought from any of the pricescope sites? I was originally looking at BlueNile, but have found stones on the other sites that were more reasonably priced. I'm just concerned with the reliability of some of those sites. I'm referring to JewelryZone, AffordableDiamondsOnline, WhiteFlash, USA Certed, Diamonds.com, Abazias, etc. I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable buying from some of them. Any recommendations? 
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| Posted: 2/23/2003 8:36:09 PM | |
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There are 17 replies to this message. There are 17 replies on this page. |
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| P: 2/23/2003 8:56:31 PM | |
abbott Cut Rock Total Posts: 173 Last Post: 4/25/2006 Member Since: 10/22/2002 |
Hi.. I recently purchased a 2.25 oval from Dirt Cheap Diamonds and was very happy with Jim's advise, service, and price. Very good experience!!!!! 
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| Posted: 2/23/2003 8:56:31 PM | |
| P: 2/23/2003 9:31:59 PM | |
barry Cut Rock Total Posts: 440 Last Post: 12/1/2003 Member Since: 3/22/2001 |
Princess cuts have traditionally been the refuge for irregular shaped diamond rough that was considered too expensive to cut into round brilliants or the traditional fancy shapes such as marquise, pear, and oval. The primary concern by manufacturers for the Princess was (and still is in many cases)weight retention; hence spready tables, midget crowns, and bottom heavy pavilions resulting in Table/Total depth percentages ranging from the high 70's to low 80's. With the recent rising popularity of the Princess Cut due in great measure to the effective DeBeers marketing and advertising campaign, demand for better cut Princess' has increased on the part of consumers. Maximizing light output and minimizing light leakage in this cut is possible and can be arrived at by several table/depth, crown/pavilion combinations. There are no hard and fast rules or numbers regarding Princess Cuts and you really need to see and compare them. A useful guidline and charts are offered by Dave Atlas (www.gemappraisers.com) and should help get you started. Barry www.superbcert.com
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| Posted: 2/23/2003 9:31:59 PM | |
| P: 2/23/2003 9:35:53 PM | |
Richard Sherwood Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,879 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 9/25/2002 |
CC, you might find the AGA Cut Class categories a good place to start in your princess cut search. It has cut category rankings for princess cut diamonds which should be used as a guide, not a bible. There' a lot more "leeway" in the cut of fancies than there is in diamonds. Sometimes you'll run across a stone that shouldn't look good "according to the numbers", but in actuality looks great. However, the AGA charts will give you an idea of what is traditionally considered "good stats" for a princess cut. http://www.gemappraisers.com/chrt4.htm You might also consider purchasing an IdealScope to help in your quest for a good cut. The IdealScope is great for eliminating poor performers and clueing you in on good ones. You can read about it on the menu at the top of your screen. A good $25 investment. Rich, Independent GG Appraiser |
| Posted: 2/23/2003 9:35:53 PM | |
| P: 2/23/2003 9:39:02 PM | |
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Richard Sherwood Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,879 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 9/25/2002 |
Barry knows what he's talking about when it comes to well cut princess cuts. Some of the best princess cut idealscope images I've seen have been from his site.
Rich, Independent GG Appraiser |
| Posted: 2/23/2003 9:39:02 PM | |
| P: 2/24/2003 7:44:27 AM | |
Giangi Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,530 Last Post: 10/29/2006 Member Since: 1/23/2003 |
Also, I prefer princesses with 10 % or more crown height... Giangi _____________ |
| Posted: 2/24/2003 7:44:27 AM | |
| P: 2/24/2003 8:01:59 AM | |
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barry Cut Rock Total Posts: 440 Last Post: 12/1/2003 Member Since: 3/22/2001 |
Giangi; Good point. Princess cuts with Crown % of 9+ are certainly more likely to be superior light performers compared to stones with numbers below this point. But this is not an absolute as I can show you Princess Cuts with Crown height % of 9+ that are poor light performers with significant leakage. There are other variables that interact with crown % that are just as important. This notion of Crown height importance may come from Blue Nile. They promote their Signature Princess Cut Diamonds as being very brilliant by virtue of their having Crown height % of 8+. Unfortunately, they do not provide any kind of evidence(Idealscope/BrillianceScope)to support this. Barry www.superbcert.com
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| Posted: 2/24/2003 8:01:59 AM | |
| P: 2/24/2003 9:10:56 AM | |
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ccoobs Rough Rock Total Posts: 11 Last Post: 2/25/2003 Member Since: 2/23/2003 |
thanks, guys.
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| Posted: 2/24/2003 9:10:56 AM | |
| P: 2/24/2003 9:35:29 AM | |
Rhino Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,865 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 3/29/2001 |
It's funny but when you take all the princess cuts with tables over 75% you eliminate QUITE A LOT of diamonds on the market. As a general rule of thumb, my first piece of advice is to look for princess cuts with tables that are smaller than their total depths. I like them to be around 5% less. So if total depth is 73 I like to see a table of at least 68. This however is not a hard fast rule. I don't like to go above 76% depth and if a client is looking for a princess cut and there are none with notably smaller tables I'll consider stones with tables up to the total depth BUT before calling them in for analysis there are certain combinations of crown height/angles and pavilion depth/angles that the stone MUST meet before I'll start spending money and calling in stones. I'll reconfirm the info that crown heights over 9% are a plus (though I like em as high as 15%) but without knowing the pavilion depth/angles that are coupled with that crown the point is moot. If you are particularly interested in getting one of the most beautiful princess cuts possible I cannot stress MORE THAN ANYTHING having the expertise of a bricks and mortar establishment help you in your search. Nothing against online brokers but they do not see what it is they are selling so for any broker to tell you how beautiful a stone is (cut wise) just from a GIA Report & EVEN A SARIN REPORT alone is sheer lunacy. The reason I state this is because I've been studying princess cuts quite intensely over the past year and very few people have the battery of lab equipment that we do for analysis of light return, optical symmetry, etc and what makes this harder to communicate to people is that you have 3 pavilion angles to be considered as well as no lesst than 2 crown angles. We can all help you out with basic and general guidelines but nothing's is guaranteed unless the stone is personally examined. Peace, Rhino Rhino |
| Posted: 2/24/2003 9:35:29 AM | |
| P: 2/24/2003 10:27:38 AM | |
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Giangi Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,530 Last Post: 10/29/2006 Member Since: 1/23/2003 |
Hi Barry... You're 100% right, but as a guideline, I'd avoid any diamond with a crown height of less than 9%. Surely you can find a poor performers with 68% table and 12% crown, but it's much more likely to find a dog  with 85% table and 4% crown (!!!! !!!!)...I'd use this criteria to make a first selection and, after doing that, each stone should be considered properly... I hope my English is not too confusing  !Giangi _____________ |
| Posted: 2/24/2003 10:27:38 AM | |
| P: 2/24/2003 11:03:32 AM | |
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barry Cut Rock Total Posts: 440 Last Post: 12/1/2003 Member Since: 3/22/2001 |
Giangi; Good procedure to follow. BTW, your English is superb. Barry www.superbcert.com
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| Posted: 2/24/2003 11:03:32 AM | |
| P: 2/24/2003 11:15:56 AM | |
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barry Cut Rock Total Posts: 440 Last Post: 12/1/2003 Member Since: 3/22/2001 |
Richard; Thanks very much. Barry www.superbcert.com
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| Posted: 2/24/2003 11:15:56 AM | |
| P: 2/24/2003 1:16:27 PM | |
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Giangi Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,530 Last Post: 10/29/2006 Member Since: 1/23/2003 |
Hey Barry... You ROCK! 
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| Posted: 2/24/2003 1:16:27 PM | |
| P: 10/16/2003 8:37:37 PM | |
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HDIC Rough Rock Total Posts: 1 Last Post: 10/16/2003 Member Since: 10/16/2003 |
I understand your pain. I have researched the heck out of Princess cuts. The boyfriend is leaving this up to me...not because he is insensitive....because he knows I know more There are lots of unbiased place online to get infor. I think it has been mentioned but www.gemappraisers.com is a great site. It will provide a great guideline for what level of stone you are looking for and the have a wonderful little chart that lets you put the stones measurements in and calculate it's rating. Now I know you jewelers out there might cringe at the thought or not seeing every stone, but some of us have jobs and I would rather narrow my search to the exactly what I am looking for then go find it. I had never done this before, so have fun with it!! So search the web for with all your 4 C's in mind and then start comparing. When it came down to my purchase my research paid off....i think- $10,600 1.7 E Vs1 66.5 D 71 Table GIA Med to SThk Crown 9% EX/EX pol/sym
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| Posted: 10/16/2003 8:37:37 PM | |
| P: 10/16/2003 8:47:43 PM | |
jenibear Cut Rock Total Posts: 312 Last Post: 12/14/2005 Member Since: 8/10/2003 |
I also drove myself crazy with princesses - spending weeks researching and looking for the perfect stone. I found it at Diamond Brokers of Florida. I recommend determining the criteria you want and choosing a vendor to find the stone you want. That's what I did and got lucky that DBOF had what I wanted in stock. But Jan will find the stone you want. My ring should be ready in the next few days and I will definitely post the finished product. Jan says its "blinding"!  Good luck Jenibear
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| Posted: 10/16/2003 8:47:43 PM | |
| P: 10/17/2003 9:36:58 AM | |
k-man Rough Rock Total Posts: 48 Last Post: 3/3/2004 Member Since: 9/9/2003 |
Check out this posting here on Pricescope if you're interested: Search for the title: "Hows this princess's idealcope?", author is me (k-man). It lists the specs and has the idealscope photo. Pay attention to the crown height, depth % and table % and the idealscope photo. I based my decision on what was available, the charts and my price range. The numbers aren't perfect but the diamond really does look amazing and sparkles a lot! You truly do have to see them first hand I think (although I never did - I purchased online). Also, I wanted the best and got obsessed with all the numbers reading all these posts and opinions. But to tell you the truth I went to a B&M store just to check things out first and they showed me a J colour, SI2 princess that didn't have any measurements at all, no cert, etc. and it looked great! What I mean is, I'm not a pro and probably would never notice/appreciate the difference between a 10% crown height or one with 7%. To the general consumer as I am (and most people are) and more importantly to the people we're purchasing these stones for, all diamonds look great and sparkle like crazy! GOOD LUCK.
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| Posted: 10/17/2003 9:36:58 AM | |
| P: 10/17/2003 9:48:24 AM | |
JustJamie Rough Rock Total Posts: 3 Last Post: 10/19/2003 Member Since: 10/17/2003 |
---------------- I'm not the original poster, but I'm in the market for a princess and found your post very helpful!! Thanks
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| Posted: 10/17/2003 9:48:24 AM | |
| P: 10/17/2003 2:35:52 PM | |
Josh@JA Cut Rock Total Posts: 366 Last Post: 2/18/2008 Member Since: 9/11/2003 |
My personal preference is to have a depth percentage that falls between 68%-75% and a table percentage that falls between 68%-72%. The princess cut diamond that I bought for my fiancee had a depth of 71.8% and a table of 69%. However, this isn't to say that you can't find a quality princess cut diamond that falls outside of these ranges. This is just my preference. I also would recommend everyone taking a look at www.gemappraisers.com. I found it to be very helpful and infomative. 
_______________ |
| Posted: 10/17/2003 2:35:52 PM | |
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