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 Chipped Culet--Appraisal question

P:  8/3/2006 8:46:12 PM  
canuk-gal
canuk-gal

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HI:

In an earlier thread l wrote that I had my RB ER of 21 years reappraised today (original documentation lost and subsequent appraisal misplaced) and it was observed by the appraiser that the culet has a very small chip in it.  This was a surprise to me. 

Regardless, I am wondering what the insurance company will "think" with the comment "small chip in the culet".  Will they "care" about this notation?  If the replacement value is designated as XXX dollars, and the stone is grade as XYZ, will this finding adversely affect the coverage, and if so, how? 

cheers--Sharon
"People who possess great qualities, do not need to show off".
Posted:  8/3/2006 8:46:12 PM

 There are 8 replies to this message.  There are 8 replies on this page.

P: 8/3/2006 9:01:05 PM
denverappraiser
denverappraiser

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Sharon,


A chipped culet is a clarity characteristic. It should be present on the plot and the clarity should be graded accordingly.  This may or may not alter the final clarity grade depending on what else is going on in the stone and how small ‘small’ is. 


Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver


 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Posted:  8/3/2006 9:01:05 PM
P: 8/3/2006 9:43:00 PM
canuk-gal
canuk-gal

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HI:

Thank you Neil for your reply.  The appraiser did discuss the "chip" with me, and described it as "very small". I suppose Insurance companies don't concern themselves at the "notes and plots" on the appraisals, but concentrate on the "end ratings and estimated replacement values". 

cheers--Sharon

"People who possess great qualities, do not need to show off".

Posted:  8/3/2006 9:43:00 PM
P: 8/4/2006 11:58:26 AM
oldminer
oldminer

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Sometimes the use of the word such as "chip" on an appraisal creates a problem for insuring an item.  Sometimes it is ignored by the insurance company.  One can't predict how they might react.  Unless there is some real substance to a chip in a rather safe place like a protected culet in a ring, I might choose simply to put it on the clarity plot and not use the word "chip" anywhere in the document.  I might speak with the client about what I see, but likely as not, a small mark on the clarity plot will be no issue and do exactly the same job for getting you sufficient insurance.  A culet of a mounted diamond would hardly ever develop a chip that had not been there since it was an unset stone long ago.  Did the appraiser attempt to decribe how it came into being chipped?  It would be nearly impossible to happen in most modern rings.

Some appraisers and appraiser/retailers choose to use what I see as scare tactics to drive you into their other options, such as recutting a diamond.  THey create an atmosphere where you start to think you need to have them go over more jewelry you own, "just in case" you have "problems" only they can find.  Its a common practice, but hardly a necessary one.  Some appraiser/retailers use scare tactics to discourage you from buying a new item from a competing retailer.  This practice damages the retail environment, the credibility of appraisers and retailers in general, and makes consumers leery of all jewelery vendors.  If these things came to an end, it would be a great day for all concerned.

David S. Atlas

GG(GIA), ASG, Sr. Mbr. NAJA

www.datlas.com





Posted:  8/4/2006 11:58:26 AM
P: 8/4/2006 3:14:40 PM
Modified Brilliant
Modified Brilliant

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Some appraisers and appraiser/retailers choose to use what I see as scare tactics to drive you into their other options, such as recutting a diamond.  THey create an atmosphere where you start to think you need to have them go over more jewelry you own, "just in case" you have "problems" only they can find.  Its a common practice, but hardly a necessary one.  Some appraiser/retailers use scare tactics to discourage you from buying a new item from a competing retailer.  This practice damages the retail environment, the credibility of appraisers and retailers in general, and makes consumers leery of all jewelery vendors.  If these things came to an end, it would be a great day for all concerned.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave,

I  disagree that what you have mentioned above is a "common practice." I don't feel that most of us use "scare tactics." We do, however, tell it like it is. Combining retailers with independent appraisers (who don't buy or sell) is unfair.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

Jeff Averbook, G.G.
Graduate Gemologist since 1986. Member NAJA. Life Member AIN.











Posted:  8/4/2006 3:14:40 PM
P: 8/4/2006 8:18:46 PM
denverappraiser
denverappraiser

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Some appraisers offer less than excellent work.  Some appraisers are retailers in disguise and have buried agendas while others are very upfront about it.  There are a few who go through a fair amount of effort to be able to use the word ‘independent’ with good conscience and we tend to be seen as unique services. I think the problem is improving as people become more aware of the differences but this is a battle that will be fought long after I’m gone.  I see no reason so far to believe that Sharon’s appraiser has done anything less than conscientious, excellent and unbiased work.

If the insurance company chooses not to bind a policy based on a factual report, this is their decision.  The client can select another insurer.  Appraisers using the GIA grading approach should call a chip a chip, a nick a nick, and a big honking gouge a chip, because that’s what we’re trained to call them.  Altering the grading procedure to accommodate the client or their insurance company while still claiming that you’re using the GIA scale is a giant leap down the road to hell. If they want stones graded on some special scale designed for them, they can request it but they can’t be both standardized and custom at the same time.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver



 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Posted:  8/4/2006 8:18:46 PM
P: 8/4/2006 10:24:04 PM
RockDoc
RockDoc

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All this discussion about a chip. When the root is really something different.

Gemologists ( noting the chip is a gemological subject ) should report things accurately, and not sugar coat them.

Appraisers on the other hand when preparing a report that the readers of the report rely on, have to address this with a more professional method.

We just can't say orally what importance a chip has. It needs to be expressed in the report as well. Noting that the chip is slight, and has no significance to a durability risk, is what is called for if in fact the chip is minor and probably caused by rubbing up against another diamond in a parcel paper. OR is it an abrasion incorrectly called a chip.

Then there is the issue of the "Kamekazi type gemologist" that put the grid of locking tweezer at a point on the stone and abrades it. ( Note how many photos from sellers sites holding a princess in tweezers at the corners of it).

If the chip is a little more serious, then the report should say so, particularly if there are value considerations, durability or other risk ) considerations or grading affect considerations.

Too many appraisal reports, don't go into the necessary details of report writing properly.

Rockdoc


Bill Leiberum
1948-2007
Thanks for everything and Rest In Peace,Bill.

Posted:  8/4/2006 10:24:04 PM
P: 8/5/2006 6:02:43 PM
oldminer
oldminer

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Dave,



I  disagree that what you have mentioned above is a "common practice." I don't feel that most of us use "scare tactics." We do, however, tell it like it is. Combining retailers with independent appraisers (who don't buy or sell) is unfair.



www.metrojewelryappraisers.com
Jeff Averbook,G.G. (G.I.A.) since 1986. NAJA (member)GIA Alumni Association (member)
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Jeff, when I say a common practice, I speak from the experience of having been the Ethics chairman of NAJA for more than a decade and the Ethics chair of the Accredited Gemologists Association for several years before that.  I also have training as a mediator and act in this capacity often in my jewelry district.  I did not imply that it was a common practice among those great guys and gals who are independent appraisers on Pricescope, but there are sure a lot of other appraisers with much less credibility and experience holding themselves out to consumers as "experts".  You may simply not know how to judge what is common in this arena and it is just as well if you can manage to avoid this problem by keeping yourself and your business clean.  I think RockDoc and I may be closer on this subject and the harm it does to the entire business.

Nevertheless, I don't mean to discredit anything good about you or your business. The posting was not made to reflect on anyone here who has enjoyed a good rep with so many of the consumers who have come to rely upon us.  My hope is to stimulate the occasional appraiser or appraiser/retailer to measure what they say and write carefully so as to do no harm to their customers, their own credibility and the entire jewelry business. 

David S. Atlas

GG(GIA), ASG, Sr. Mbr. NAJA

www.datlas.com





Posted:  8/5/2006 6:02:43 PM
P: 8/5/2006 8:36:19 PM
Modified Brilliant
Modified Brilliant

Ideal Rock
Total Posts: 1,148
Last Post: 11/21/2009
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Thanks, Dave for the response and clarification.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

Jeff Averbook, G.G.
Graduate Gemologist since 1986. Member NAJA. Life Member AIN.











Posted:  8/5/2006 8:36:19 PM

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