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 » RockyTalky
»  » Help Educate me - why is this an AGS 2?
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Help Educate me - why is this an AGS 2? |
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| P: 6/20/2006 10:04:53 PM | |
kristy_lyn Cut Rock Total Posts: 173 Last Post: 10/26/2007 Member Since: 6/19/2006 |
I'm getting the concept of the HCA system... but, why does this diamond below have a good HCA number, but an AGS score of ? 0.83 F VS2 0.8-EX vg-ex-ex-ex AGS 2 58.5% 58% 32.5° 40.6° thn-med no ex vg no 6.15*6.23*3.62 $3572
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| Posted: 6/20/2006 10:04:53 PM | |
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There are 26 replies to this message. There are 26 replies on this page. |
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| P: 6/20/2006 10:07:51 PM | |
diamondseeker2006 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 17,609 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 1/11/2006 |
You want a crown angle between 34 and 35 for one thing. The depth is too shallow and the table a bit large.
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| Posted: 6/20/2006 10:07:51 PM | |
| P: 6/20/2006 10:09:40 PM | |
belle Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,287 Last Post: 4/3/2008 Member Since: 11/19/2004 |
that crown and pavilion combo is not going to get the top grade polish and symmetry are only 'very good' and 'excellent' so probably a ding for light performance and for finish it would have this info on the grading report.
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| Posted: 6/20/2006 10:09:40 PM | |
| P: 6/20/2006 10:12:40 PM | |
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belle Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,287 Last Post: 4/3/2008 Member Since: 11/19/2004 |
Date: 6/20/2006 10:07:51 PM actually, with a 40.6 pa the ca would need to be in the 35.5-36.5 range with a 58% table.
Author: diamondseeker2006 You want a crown angle between 34 and 35 for one thing. The depth is too shallow and the table a bit large.
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| Posted: 6/20/2006 10:12:40 PM | |
| P: 6/20/2006 10:18:20 PM | |
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kristy_lyn Cut Rock Total Posts: 173 Last Post: 10/26/2007 Member Since: 6/19/2006 |
Is a 2 considered a "bad" cut? And, if the HCA score is still good, then theoretically, it should *look* good, right???
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| Posted: 6/20/2006 10:18:20 PM | |
| P: 6/20/2006 10:27:10 PM | |
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belle Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,287 Last Post: 4/3/2008 Member Since: 11/19/2004 |
Date: 6/20/2006 10:18:20 PM there are diamonds that get gia's top grade of 'excellent' that are lower than an ags2.Author: kristy_lyn Is a 2 considered a 'bad' cut? And, if the HCA score is still good, then theoretically, it should *look* good, right???  can you get more info on it, such as an idealscope image and the actual grading report?
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| Posted: 6/20/2006 10:27:10 PM | |
| P: 6/20/2006 11:04:54 PM | |
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kristy_lyn Cut Rock Total Posts: 173 Last Post: 10/26/2007 Member Since: 6/19/2006 |
I haven't gotten to the point of getting the images... JamesAllen doesn't link to them in the PS search engine. I was just trying to understand what the differences are between the two numbers...
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| Posted: 6/20/2006 11:04:54 PM | |
| P: 6/20/2006 11:19:37 PM | |
Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,936 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002 |
hmm i'd pass. it's an okay cut with a higher color and clarity for less. there's a reason it's a little less. the cut quality. depends on what you want to see. an F color...or an exceptional cut with lots of sparkle.
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| Posted: 6/20/2006 11:19:37 PM | |
| P: 6/20/2006 11:45:26 PM | |
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diamondseeker2006 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 17,609 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 1/11/2006 |
Date: 6/20/2006 10:12:40 PM Author: belle Date: 6/20/2006 10:07:51 PM actually, with a 40.6 pa the ca would need to be in the 35.5-36.5 range with a 58% table.Author: diamondseeker2006 You want a crown angle between 34 and 35 for one thing. The depth is too shallow and the table a bit large. Are you saying those numbers would get AGS0? I put that she'd want a CA of 34-35 because that is the standard for WF ACA.
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| Posted: 6/20/2006 11:45:26 PM | |
| P: 6/21/2006 12:10:16 AM | |
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belle Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,287 Last Post: 4/3/2008 Member Since: 11/19/2004 |
Date: 6/20/2006 11:45:26 PM yes, those numbers would make it an ags0 candidate.Author: diamondseeker2006 Date: 6/20/2006 10:12:40 PM Author: belle Date: 6/20/2006 10:07:51 PM actually, with a 40.6 pa the ca would need to be in the 35.5-36.5 range with a 58% table.Author: diamondseeker2006 You want a crown angle between 34 and 35 for one thing. The depth is too shallow and the table a bit large. Are you saying those numbers would get AGS0? I put that she'd want a CA of 34-35 because that is the standard for WF ACA. 34-35 ca may be 'standard' for aca's but this diamond has a 40.6 pa and a 58% table which is not 'standard' for aca's. you have to look at the whole picture, not just one piece.
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| Posted: 6/21/2006 12:10:16 AM | |
| P: 6/21/2006 12:16:38 AM | |
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diamondseeker2006 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 17,609 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 1/11/2006 |
Date: 6/21/2006 12:10:16 AM Author: belle Date: 6/20/2006 11:45:26 PM yes, those numbers would make it an ags0 candidate.Author: diamondseeker2006 Date: 6/20/2006 10:12:40 PM Author: belle Date: 6/20/2006 10:07:51 PM actually, with a 40.6 pa the ca would need to be in the 35.5-36.5 range with a 58% table.Author: diamondseeker2006 You want a crown angle between 34 and 35 for one thing. The depth is too shallow and the table a bit large. Are you saying those numbers would get AGS0? I put that she'd want a CA of 34-35 because that is the standard for WF ACA. 34-35 ca may be 'standard' for aca's but this diamond has a 40.6 pa and a 58% table which is not 'standard' for aca's. you have to look at the whole picture, not just one piece. Thanks! I'm on vacation and don't have my ideal number charts with me! I almost have the ACA numbers memorized, though! I just wouldn't personally choose 40.6 pa, 36.5 ca, and 58% table even if it was AGS0.
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| Posted: 6/21/2006 12:16:38 AM | |
| P: 6/21/2006 12:20:31 AM | |
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belle Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,287 Last Post: 4/3/2008 Member Since: 11/19/2004 |
Date: 6/21/2006 12:16:38 AM you better not be on vacation! what are you doing here? go have fun!Author: diamondseeker2006 Thanks! I'm on vacation and don't have my ideal number charts with me! I almost have the ACA numbers memorized, though! I just wouldn't personally choose 40.6 pa, 36.5 ca, and 58% table even if it was AGS0. 
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| Posted: 6/21/2006 12:20:31 AM | |
| P: 6/21/2006 12:31:46 AM | |
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diamondseeker2006 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 17,609 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 1/11/2006 |
Date: 6/21/2006 12:20:31 AM I need to join PS Anonymous when I get back home. Author: belle Date: 6/21/2006 12:16:38 AM you better not be on vacation! what are you doing here? go have fun!Author: diamondseeker2006 Thanks! I'm on vacation and don't have my ideal number charts with me! I almost have the ACA numbers memorized, though! I just wouldn't personally choose 40.6 pa, 36.5 ca, and 58% table even if it was AGS0.  (I can't take a break until I find my diamond!!!!!!)
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| Posted: 6/21/2006 12:31:46 AM | |
| P: 6/21/2006 12:01:11 PM | |
strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003 |
Date: 6/21/2006 12:16:38 AM Author: diamondseeker2006 Date: 6/21/2006 12:10:16 AM Thanks! I'm on vacation and don't have my ideal number charts with me! I almost have the ACA numbers memorized, though! I just wouldn't personally choose 40.6 pa, 36.5 ca, and 58% table even if it was AGS0. You would be missing out on a very very fiery diamond if the LGF% was right. One thing the new cut grading has shown is that the old ideal standards at the same time were too wide and too narrow. They included some combos that weren't the best and left some out that were top notch. The ACA range WF uses is a good one, Brian designed them to well balanced but they aren't the yardstick to measure all diamond proportions. They are just at one sweet spot on the stick. Other combos work just as well. ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K |
| Posted: 6/21/2006 12:01:11 PM | |
| P: 6/21/2006 12:03:37 PM | |
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diamondseeker2006 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 17,609 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 1/11/2006 |
Storm, so are you basically saying that one is very safe with all AGS0's with new certs? That would make this process a lot easier.
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| Posted: 6/21/2006 12:03:37 PM | |
| P: 6/21/2006 12:09:04 PM | |
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strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003 |
Date: 6/21/2006 12:03:37 PM Author: diamondseeker2006 Storm, so are you basically saying that one is very safe with all AGS0's with new certs? That would make this process a lot easier. New ags0 and an heart image would be enough info. IS or ASET image would work too. It doesnt take optical symmetry into account but otherwise the new AGS0 range is a pretty safe one. There will be difference in appearance between them but woofers arent likely. ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K |
| Posted: 6/21/2006 12:09:04 PM | |
| P: 6/21/2006 12:13:22 PM | |
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diamondseeker2006 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 17,609 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 1/11/2006 |
That's great, Storm! So if one looks at a GIA stone and plugs the numbers into the HCA and it falls in the AGS0 lines, will that work as well?
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| Posted: 6/21/2006 12:13:22 PM | |
| P: 6/21/2006 12:27:41 PM | |
RockDoc Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,509 Last Post: 6/17/2007 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
Date: 6/21/2006 12:13:22 PM Author: diamondseeker2006 That's great, Storm! So if one looks at a GIA stone and plugs the numbers into the HCA and it falls in the AGS0 lines, will that work as well? Not really. The numbers on the HCA are averages. The numbers even on the new GIA cut grade reports are averages, plus they are rounded either up or down. I do not know if the HCA takes the NEW AGS cut grade into consideration, and if it does, it is still only providing results that are proportion based. Most of the AGS grades supplied by sellers are based on the OLD AGS grading system, that is generated by the Sarin or OGI proportions. A requirement of analyzing the stone with the NEW AGS grades is that the symmetry and polished be personally exammined. The only POSITIVE way to know how it rates on the NEW grading system is to send it to AGS and get it graded there. Those who have the new AGS/PGS software can estimate it with a Sarin file or Helium file. AGS does downgrade the cut based on characteristics that are not covered within the GIA cut grade. In the ones that I've tested with the software, if the stone gets a 1-4 on either the symmetry or polish, it take a big hit on the final cut grade. I haven't done a huge number of these yet, as the PGS software is still only recently released, but for the ones I have imaged and changed the data on the polish and symmetry, even if the other data is a "0", the final cut grade is lowered in the results. So, the polish and symmetry, seems to be paramount to its cut grade, and in the new system, that needs to be seen and verified as to the quality of it. Rockdoc
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| Posted: 6/21/2006 12:27:41 PM | |
| P: 6/21/2006 12:45:18 PM | |
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diamondseeker2006 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 17,609 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 1/11/2006 |
Thanks, Rock Doc! It surely makes it hard for a regular person to choose a diamond! I guess this really goes to show why it pays to buy from vendors that post additional information such as the scopes and scans, etc.
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| Posted: 6/21/2006 12:45:18 PM | |
| P: 6/21/2006 12:54:18 PM | |
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strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003 |
Date: 6/21/2006 12:13:22 PM Author: diamondseeker2006 That's great, Storm! So if one looks at a GIA stone and plugs the numbers into the HCA and it falls in the AGS0 lines, will that work as well? It really depends on what level you want to go too. A new gia cert/hca and an IS image or ASET image would be enough info also but it would take more work and be less reliable than other ways of doing it. Id prefer a full sarin scan or better yet a helium scan to go with it where with an AGS cert I might consider skipping it. Heart images if its being sold as h&a are a good idea too. Instead of relying on the GIA cut grade the info would have to be carefully considered as well as the rounding that is used on the numbers would have to be taken into consideration. Keep in mind that id prefer much more info than this but I admit my favorite level of info isn't required to get a kicken diamond. ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K |
| Posted: 6/21/2006 12:54:18 PM | |
| P: 6/21/2006 12:56:17 PM | |
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diamondseeker2006 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 17,609 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 1/11/2006 |
Storm, I keep thinking that I just need you to find a diamond for me. 
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| Posted: 6/21/2006 12:56:17 PM | |
| P: 6/21/2006 1:25:38 PM | |
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Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,936 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002 |
Date: 6/21/2006 12:56:17 PM Author: diamondseeker2006 Storm, I keep thinking that I just need you to find a diamond for me. No what you need to do is get off the computer and go enjoy your vacation!!!!! SHOO! ________________________________ |
| Posted: 6/21/2006 1:25:38 PM | |
| P: 6/21/2006 2:05:15 PM | |
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kristy_lyn Cut Rock Total Posts: 173 Last Post: 10/26/2007 Member Since: 6/19/2006 |
Wow - you all lost me a few posts back. But, bottom line is that you all think there is better stuff out there.
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| Posted: 6/21/2006 2:05:15 PM | |
| P: 6/21/2006 2:38:46 PM | |
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diamondseeker2006 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 17,609 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 1/11/2006 |
Date: 6/21/2006 1:25:38 PM Author: Mara Date: 6/21/2006 12:56:17 PM Author: diamondseeker2006 Storm, I keep thinking that I just need you to find a diamond for me. No what you need to do is get off the computer and go enjoy your vacation!!!!! SHOO! Lol! Believe it or not, Mara, I have been out at the pool!!! It is HOT, though, so I have to come in for a break now and then! I still have a beautiful view of the landscaping, pool, and ocean, so it's even nice to be inside! Kristy..you know, this isn't easy! I'd say see if you can find stones with AGS certs..it will make it easier!
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| Posted: 6/21/2006 2:38:46 PM | |
| P: 6/21/2006 2:43:13 PM | |
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RockDoc Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,509 Last Post: 6/17/2007 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
Where are you vacationing Diamond Seeker..... You here in FL? Its hot here. Rockdoc
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| Posted: 6/21/2006 2:43:13 PM | |
| P: 6/21/2006 3:01:11 PM | |
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diamondseeker2006 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 17,609 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 1/11/2006 |
No, I am on the Isle of Palms outside of Charleston, SC. It's beautiful...but hot!!!
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| Posted: 6/21/2006 3:01:11 PM | |
| P: 6/21/2006 4:22:57 PM | |
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RockDoc Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,509 Last Post: 6/17/2007 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
Date: 6/21/2006 3:01:11 PM Author: diamondseeker2006 No, I am on the Isle of Palms outside of Charleston, SC. It's beautiful...but hot!!! Enjoy your vacation there.... Rockdoc
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| Posted: 6/21/2006 4:22:57 PM | |
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