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 » RockyTalky
»  » Buying insights and Infinity Diamonds
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Buying insights and Infinity Diamonds |
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| P: 5/22/2006 4:35:03 AM | |
f4fred Rough Rock Total Posts: 16 Last Post: 6/11/2006 Member Since: 4/3/2006 |
Hi All, Just wanted to throw in my two-cents. I have been on the market for a diamond for a few months and in that period have seen dozens of stones in both B&M stores and via independent appraisers. This was a painful process but for the fact that I stumbled across Infinity Diamonds: http://www.infinitydiamonds.be I can categorically say that every stone that these guys produce exceeds every other stone that I came across in my search in terms of all round beauty. At risk of sounding like an advert for Infinity, I can not emphasize strongly enough: do not buy your diamond until you have at least seen one of Paul’s Crafted By Infinity diamonds. Wink and others can arrange for you to see them. What is the downside? The upside is having one of the most beautiful stones on the planet. During my research with Wink and Paul, I had a few ‘ah-ha’ moments as a consumer interested in scaling the learning curve as quickly as possible. I hope you don’t mind me sharing: • Cut is by far the most important of the characteristics of a diamond. I originally wanted to go with a stone that was flawless but after looking at different stones under the loupe you get nothing more for your money by going IF over VS2. You may feel better about yourself but no one is going to know. I also thought that size was king and I had expected to see huge differences between 1.5, 1.6, 1.7c diamonds. This is not the case. At arms length, and with a set moving diamond, you won’t be able to tell the difference, at least I wasn’t. Now color is a tricky one. I really refused to budge from D-F for ages until I saw Paul’s stones. When the cut is non-ideal, especially in Princess stones, the color was really easy to identify. With Infinity’s super-ideal cut, face-up diamonds are neigh-on impossible to tell an F from a G and a G from an H. Finally, the biggest insight on this front was the cut itself. I saw two 1c stones side-by-side; one was well cut and the other poorly cut. The light leakage that the poorly cut diamond had, at arms length, made that stone look 0.5c smaller!! This is much more important than you killing yourself on whether you can afford to go up 0.1 or 0.2c in weight. • When you are in a store or at an appraiser, make sure to look at the stones in lots of different lighting conditions. I saw many stones that were beautiful under bright lighting but crawl under the desk and you will see that light and beauty leak away. Better to do this before you give that diamond to your fiancé in dim lighting conditions!! The Infinity RBs that I saw were all beautiful as can be expected under bright conditions, but in my dark corner, it was just amazing to see the brightness shine right to the very edge. • The market doesn’t seem to charge anything for exactly square Princesses over those that are not square. For me, however, I would pay more to have an exactly square Princess as I love that symmetry – surely something that is inherent with the very idea of cutting diamonds. If you want a source of exactly square diamonds, I needn’t tell you where you need to look!!! All I can say, is that these guys should be charging more. • H&A may mean a really well-cut stone but this alone does not guarantee great light performance. I only researched H&A stones and the variation between the performances is unimaginably large. The particular dimensions of the facets in combination with the H&A pattern is what is important. Do not just assume that buying an H&A means you will have an amazing stone. • There are lots of Brands kicking around and I was and still am skeptical about their value to consumers. What are you really buying? Are you just falling into a marketing trap? I even thought this may have been the case with Infinity diamonds as well until I saw a whole range of RBs and Princesses. The thing that you get with their brand is unbelievable consistency across every stone that they produce – and they publish immense amount of data on each as well. Ask Wink, but I would never ever ever ever buy a $$$ stone without seeing it first. This involved shipping stones to and from my appraiser and me having to take time out to check ‘em over. Hand on heart, I am now comfortable buying any Infinity cut stone sight-unseen. That is the value of their brand to the consumer; extremely high quality control. • Infinity, via their dealers, offer a trade-up policy. If you ever want to upgrade to a larger stone, they will buy back the original. Think about how valuable that is to you. That option value may just save your life and your wallet. • People talk about buying over the internet and that being a really risky thing to do as well as being very unromantic. Hmm… my experience was not so. I spoke extensively to Wink by phone garnering his brilliant expertise and then was fortunate enough to meet Paul, a true genius in the business. Buying my Infinity stone was one of the lowest-risk purchases of my life… as long as she says yes!!! Sorry for the long ramble but I thought my experiences may help others just as Pricescope really helped me find Wink, Paul and my perfect diamond. Ciao |
| Posted: 5/22/2006 4:35:03 AM | |
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There are 24 replies to this message. There are 24 replies on this page. |
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| P: 5/22/2006 9:26:24 AM | |
Wink Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,032 Last Post: 11/17/2009 Member Since: 5/4/2001 |
Thank you for your many kind words. You were a lot of fun to work with, and I must admit that very few of our clients are willing to travel to Antwerp to sit with Paul to make sure you are seeing all of the stones you wish to see. After all of your efforts, I certainly hope that she does say yes! Wink Wink Jones |
| Posted: 5/22/2006 9:26:24 AM | |
| P: 5/22/2006 9:32:59 AM | |
belle Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,287 Last Post: 4/3/2008 Member Since: 11/19/2004 |
you have seen the light! thanks for taking the time to put down your thoughts f4fred, i hope you will stick around and share your valuable insights with others.
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| Posted: 5/22/2006 9:32:59 AM | |
| P: 5/22/2006 9:47:47 AM | |
strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003 |
wow congrates! How awesome to be able to travel to Antwerp and meet with Paul. Please tell us about your meeting :} You are right Paul cuts some of the best diamonds in the world. You are also right that some brands are worth it and some not. Im glad that Wink and Paul were able to serve you well. What did you end up getting? pictures? ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K |
| Posted: 5/22/2006 9:47:47 AM | |
| P: 5/22/2006 10:30:56 AM | |
aljdewey Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,236 Last Post: 2/11/2008 Member Since: 11/25/2002 |
Congrats! It's great to hear such warm review for the Infinity line. I hear great things about it!
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| Posted: 5/22/2006 10:30:56 AM | |
| P: 5/22/2006 2:52:22 PM | |
Dancing Fire Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,224 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 4/3/2004 |
Infinity recut my wife's stone with help through Wink.you can't go wrong with these two gent's.
it is always harder to find a "mind clean" stone than a eye clean stone. |
| Posted: 5/22/2006 2:52:22 PM | |
| P: 5/22/2006 8:11:13 PM | |
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f4fred Rough Rock Total Posts: 16 Last Post: 6/11/2006 Member Since: 4/3/2006 |
I ended up going for a 1.57 H VS1 RB which I am having set in a Vatche Royal Crown style  Paul not only gave me his expert answers to my diamond related questions, he put up with my indecision on choosing between three beautiful stones and then he showed me round the old diamond district of Antwerp. I'll be sure to post a picture and/or video of the ring once I have it back Thanks once more, not only to Wink and Paul, but also to everyone here on Pricescope who have provided excellent advice, lots of  for my secret project, and a new found ability to generate worried looks on the faces of B&M jewlers!
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| Posted: 5/22/2006 8:11:13 PM | |
| P: 5/22/2006 8:38:50 PM | |
^ Rough Rock Total Posts: 91 Last Post: 8/15/2009 Member Since: 5/9/2006 |
Thanks for the feedback on your experience. I looked around their site somewhat and am not as blown away by their selection as I was expecting. For instance: .904 AGS0 F IF http://www.infinitydiamonds.be/diamond.php?ID=100 http://www.elmyrservices.net/stonepreview.php?id=fb80ff014a0e245dc7cceeb6c0a51fba&cid=2 Click on Visagem Page 2 The H&A image is not great. The Idealscope image is not great either, in my amateur opinion. Do others agree? I know you said that perfect H&A doesn't promise a good stone, and that's true. But for you to "categorically say that every stone that these guys produce exceeds every other stone" is a pretty strong statement, and I've seen far better Idealscope images elsewhere. Maybe Paul showed you the best that he had, and it was your impression that all Infinity stones were of that caliber? Not trying to threadcrxx, just trying to keep the dialog open. I'm still at the beginning of my secret project.  ^
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| Posted: 5/22/2006 8:38:50 PM | |
| P: 5/22/2006 8:54:51 PM | |
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belle Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,287 Last Post: 4/3/2008 Member Since: 11/19/2004 |
Date: 5/22/2006 8:38:50 PM all i can say is that we are truly spoiled with unfailing perfection with the majority of h&a/idealscope images on here and anything that is even a minutia different becomes less than spectacular. the stone you posted above looks awesome and will indeed exceed, performance wise, every other diamond you are likely to see on a daily basis. Author: ^ Thanks for the feedback on your experience. I looked around their site somewhat and am not as blown away by their selection as I was expecting. For instance: .904 AGS0 F IF http://www.infinitydiamonds.be/diamond.php?ID=100 http://www.elmyrservices.net/stonepreview.php?id=fb80ff014a0e245dc7cceeb6c0a51fba&cid=2 Click on Visagem Page 2 The H&A image is not great. The Idealscope image is not great either, in my amateur opinion. Do others agree? I know you said that perfect H&A doesn't promise a good stone, and that's true. But for you to 'categorically say that every stone that these guys produce exceeds every other stone' is a pretty strong statement, and I've seen far better Idealscope images elsewhere. Maybe Paul showed you the best that he had, and it was your impression that all Infinity stones were of that caliber? Not trying to threadcrxx, just trying to keep the dialog open. I'm still at the beginning of my secret project. ^ i want to hear about this secret project! 
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| Posted: 5/22/2006 8:54:51 PM | |
| P: 5/22/2006 9:15:05 PM | |
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^ Rough Rock Total Posts: 91 Last Post: 8/15/2009 Member Since: 5/9/2006 |
You're probably right, Belle. But when you arm a bunch of OCD crazies like us with more information than your average jewelry store manager, it's hard for us not to strive for perfection. I have yet to see Idealscope, Brilliancescope or HCA scores for the rocks I've seen in B&M's to know how those results would look IRL. I've only seen Tiffany or other chain B&M's so far. Want to make sure I'm well educated before ordering from online vendors so I order the right thing for inspection. f4fred's post was just so downright enthusiastic that my expectations may have been unreasonably high. But I was expecting every Infinity diamond to beat the best GOG or ACA diamonds from what he said. By beat, I guess I'm talking about Idealscope, but as GOG points out Idealscope has its limitations, and perhaps seeing these stones in person is the only way to do them justice. My secret project is along the same lines as f4fred's, I believe. But I won't threadjack, I'll post my own when I've done more homework.  Oh, and I should add, congratulations f4fred, I truly envy your Antwerp adventure, what a great experience to have attached to your lifelong commitment. So cool! ^
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| Posted: 5/22/2006 9:15:05 PM | |
| P: 5/23/2006 12:55:04 AM | |
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strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003 |
Date: 5/22/2006 8:38:50 PM Author: ^ Thanks for the feedback on your experience. I looked around their site somewhat and am not as blown away by their selection as I was expecting. For instance: .904 AGS0 F IF http://www.infinitydiamonds.be/diamond.php?ID=100 http://www.elmyrservices.net/stonepreview.php?id=fb80ff014a0e245dc7cceeb6c0a51fba&cid=2 Click on Visagem Page 2 The H&A image is not great. The Idealscope image is not great either, in my amateur opinion. Do others agree? I know you said that perfect H&A doesn't promise a good stone, and that's true. But for you to 'categorically say that every stone that these guys produce exceeds every other stone' is a pretty strong statement, and I've seen far better Idealscope images elsewhere. Maybe Paul showed you the best that he had, and it was your impression that all Infinity stones were of that caliber? Not trying to threadcrxx, just trying to keep the dialog open. I'm still at the beginning of my secret project. ^ elmyrservices did a crappy job of taking the picture more than there being anything wrong with the diamond. ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K |
| Posted: 5/23/2006 12:55:04 AM | |
| P: 5/23/2006 1:04:15 AM | |
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Dancing Fire Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,224 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 4/3/2004 |
yep...if they don't line up the camera ,hearts will look 
it is always harder to find a "mind clean" stone than a eye clean stone. |
| Posted: 5/23/2006 1:04:15 AM | |
| P: 5/23/2006 4:38:19 AM | |
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^ Rough Rock Total Posts: 91 Last Post: 8/15/2009 Member Since: 5/9/2006 |
Seriously? So I read all the material and learn how to closely scrutinize images of diamonds in an H&A viewer and an Idealscope image, etc, and now I have to contend with the fact that the camera might be off? OK, I'll try to relax. How do we know from that picture that it's the camera? Perhaps if I learned to judge that, too? ^
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| Posted: 5/23/2006 4:38:19 AM | |
| P: 5/23/2006 4:48:49 AM | |
JulieN Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,148 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 7/25/2005 |
in the arrows picture, it looks symmetrical. in the Idealscope picture, it doesn't look symmetrical. it's either exhibits symmetry, or it doesn't. strm is really good at seeing the little things with the camera in pictures. elmyr doesn't own the stone, so maybe they care less about taking good pictures than a vendor would (because I hate the IS pictures they take) sometimes, I think when you've been here a little while, just enough to know quite a lot, you really do OCD on cut...nothing can be wonky, no partial leakage. but then you're here a little while longer and you're kinda, "eh, it's round, it has hearts and arrows, and top light return."
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| Posted: 5/23/2006 4:48:49 AM | |
| P: 5/23/2006 5:16:06 AM | |
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f4fred Rough Rock Total Posts: 16 Last Post: 6/11/2006 Member Since: 4/3/2006 |
The H&A thing is actually something I forgot to mention. I had been looking at loads of these things online and criticising this part of an arrow looking slightly different from that part. When you actually see the H&A in real life, the whole picture is dynamic as your head wobbles ever so slightly, so even a perfectly symmetrical H&A pattern can look off if your eye, or the camera sees the stone from anything but directly above. The same for the idealscope. A second problem is that the diamond has to be perfectly centered in the viewer with the table perfectly parallel to the background else you can get the impression that there is lack of symmetry when in fact there is not. As I am not an industry expert, my assertions about the Infinity line are only the result of my own research and personal perceptions. They are amazing! As for my secret project... it involves a beautiful girl who I adore to pieces, a desire to buy a gorgeous ring that will make her super happy and far far far too much time on pricescope, visiting appraisers and cutters  It is a bit like the 'DaVinci Ring' - involving international travel across Europe and the US, muchos research on the black-art of diamonds, secret phone calls, anonymous appraiser meetings, and a marriage that no-one really quite knows about yet. 
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| Posted: 5/23/2006 5:16:06 AM | |
| P: 5/23/2006 1:08:12 PM | |
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^ Rough Rock Total Posts: 91 Last Post: 8/15/2009 Member Since: 5/9/2006 |
f4fred, thanks for sharing your experience, I do tend to forget about "real world" observation factors, since we spend all day comparing stones in the vaccuum of HCA, IS, BS, etc. You've certainly seen a lot more diamonds than I have, and your compelling testimonial convinces me to give them a look when my search gets to that point. Good luck with the "project!" ^
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| Posted: 5/23/2006 1:08:12 PM | |
| P: 5/23/2006 4:04:14 PM | |
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Wink Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,032 Last Post: 11/17/2009 Member Since: 5/4/2001 |
Date: 5/22/2006 8:11:13 PM Author: f4fred Thanks once more, not only to Wink and Paul, but also to everyone here on Pricescope who have provided excellent advice, lots of for my secret project, and a new found ability to generate worried looks on the faces of B&M jewlers!LOL! Thirty-five years in the trade and I have finally excelled at teaching my clients to scare B&M jewelers... Somehow I thought I was accomplishing MORE than that. Wink P.S. Thank goodness I was drinking water not hot coffee when I read that. Still hurts to snort it all over the key board, but not nearly as much as hot coffee! Wink Jones |
| Posted: 5/23/2006 4:04:14 PM | |
| P: 5/23/2006 4:12:29 PM | |
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Wink Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,032 Last Post: 11/17/2009 Member Since: 5/4/2001 |
Date: 5/22/2006 8:38:50 PM Author: ^ Thanks for the feedback on your experience. I looked around their site somewhat and am not as blown away by their selection as I was expecting. For instance: .904 AGS0 F IF http://www.infinitydiamonds.be/diamond.php?ID=100 http://www.elmyrservices.net/stonepreview.php?id=fb80ff014a0e245dc7cceeb6c0a51fba&cid=2 Click on Visagem Page 2 The H&A image is not great. The Idealscope image is not great either, in my amateur opinion. Do others agree? I know you said that perfect H&A doesn't promise a good stone, and that's true. But for you to 'categorically say that every stone that these guys produce exceeds every other stone' is a pretty strong statement, and I've seen far better Idealscope images elsewhere. Maybe Paul showed you the best that he had, and it was your impression that all Infinity stones were of that caliber? Not trying to threadcrxx, just trying to keep the dialog open. I'm still at the beginning of my secret project. ^ ^, Welcome to our world. Paul has Elmyr take the photos and do the measurements as that way he can not be accused of taking only the best shots or otherwise affecting the measurements. (Yes, you can move them around a little to get better shots from the same stone sometimes, especially with the idealscope as it is VERY easy to not have it perfectly perpendicular which messes things up.) If they take a bad picture Paul lives with it. If it is obviously tilted or what ever he can ask that they re do it. I find his having an uninterested third party do this work to be a measure of his high ethical standards. They do a lot of work for many people so they are not nearly as careful at it as Paul would be if he were doing it himself. I can tell you that from my experience that the quality of Paul's stones is incredibly consistent. You are fortunate to be doing your search here, as there are many fine vendors to choose from and they are all competing dilligently for your hard earned dollars, so you will be paying a much lower price than you would otherwise find. I wish you well in your search. Wink Wink Jones |
| Posted: 5/23/2006 4:12:29 PM | |
| P: 5/23/2006 4:32:24 PM | |
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Wink Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,032 Last Post: 11/17/2009 Member Since: 5/4/2001 |
Date: 5/22/2006 9:15:05 PM Author: ^ <snip> But when you arm a bunch of OCD crazies like us with more information than your average jewelry store manager, it's hard for us not to strive for perfection. I have yet to see Idealscope, Brilliancescope or HCA scores for the rocks I've seen in B&M's to know how those results would look IRL. <snip> Oh, and I should add, congratulations f4fred, I truly envy your Antwerp adventure, what a great experience to have attached to your lifelong commitment. So cool! ^ LOL! A serious Pricescoper knows more than most jewelry store OWNERS! There are tens of thousands of jewelers in this country alone, and I would be that the truly educated and up to date with modern technology number less than one thousand. I would like to believe that it is higher, but there are some on this board who would fare very well on any of the trade tests for knowledge about diamond cutting. (Of which there are not very many.) (Tests, not knowledgeable Pricescopers!) Any one can open a jewelry store if he has the financial where withal, it does not require any special licensing. It takes a LOT of hard work to keep up with the tremendous advances being made in technology and in diamond cutting analysis today. Your reward for being one of those who does is the certainty that your purchase will be an incredible diamond to enhance the hand of the lady you love. Wink P.S. I left your last statement rather than sniping it, as this is the type of thing that one tells the grand kids, long after the technical knowledge is forgotten. Wink Jones |
| Posted: 5/23/2006 4:32:24 PM | |
| P: 5/23/2006 5:09:40 PM | |
Modified Brilliant Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,148 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 3/24/2005 |
Always good to check "real world factors." Your eyes can tell you alot. www.metrojewelryappraisers.com Jeff Averbook, G.G. |
| Posted: 5/23/2006 5:09:40 PM | |
| P: 5/24/2006 4:06:46 AM | |
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f4fred Rough Rock Total Posts: 16 Last Post: 6/11/2006 Member Since: 4/3/2006 |
Heya Jeff, it looks like I have sold you a little short in my previous write-up, sorry. Jeff Averbook is my man in Boston who kindly handled all of my stones and put up with me bugging him for hours! If you are looking for a trusty appraiser and would rather see an 'internet' diamond before buying it, do make sure to give him a call. He basically made it possible for me to see lots of stones without having to put whacking great deposits or pre-payments down first - which would have halted my search here. Hope to catch you soon Jeff.
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| Posted: 5/24/2006 4:06:46 AM | |
| P: 5/24/2006 3:33:32 PM | |
Paul-Antwerp Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,908 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 9/3/2002 |
Hello Fred, Thank you for the raving review. I was so embarassed by your outspoken enthousiasm here, that I did not dare to leave the building these last days. If all else fails in your good-looking professional career, you can always become a copywriter. Thank you also for those of you who point to the quality of our pics. As you know, we outsource this, as this is not our specialty, and it frees up time to concentrate on what we are really good at. However, we often complain about the quality of some of our pics, and that this service could definitely improve, and to be able to point at a thread on PS where our consumers are complaining, definitely supports our case with Elmyr. That being said, we are slowly preparing for the JCK-show in Vegas, where we will meet up with colleagues and especially our dealers. We will also have a dealers' meeting in which we will discuss possible improvements to our products, our communication and our whole marketing package. Expect to see some other improvements soon. Live long, Paul Slegers |
| Posted: 5/24/2006 3:33:32 PM | |
| P: 5/24/2006 9:42:40 PM | |
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Modified Brilliant Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,148 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 3/24/2005 |
I'm happy that I could help. It was a pleasure meeting you. Jeff www.metrojewelryappraisers.com Jeff Averbook, G.G. |
| Posted: 5/24/2006 9:42:40 PM | |
| P: 5/25/2006 12:51:54 AM | |
Small Ideal Rock Total Posts: 957 Last Post: 4/18/2008 Member Since: 2/3/2006 |
I can only imagine how beautiful your infinity diamond is as I'm a proud owner of one too  I can attest that the stones Paul cuts are beautiful My pictures on elmyr were very deceiving. I have an SI2 stone that has a feather on the edge. In the picture the feather looks big and black. When Wink received the diamond and forwarded me the pictures the feather is white as can be and made me very very happy to see I got an incredible diamond for a great price and worked with Wink who provided me service that far exceeded my expectations. There are so many rave reviews for others on this site but from what I've seen Paul's diamonds could infact hang with any of the diamonds that those vendors are selling. Your eyes are the true test. I have only the best regards for both Paul and Wink. They are highly highly recommended by me
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| Posted: 5/25/2006 12:51:54 AM | |
| P: 5/25/2006 11:57:25 AM | |
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Wink Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,032 Last Post: 11/17/2009 Member Since: 5/4/2001 |
Thank you Small for your kind words. Paul is very dedicated to producing excellence and I consider myself to be very fortunate to be one of his vendors. Wink Wink Jones |
| Posted: 5/25/2006 11:57:25 AM | |
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