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What to do - appraisal stinks!

P: 4/4/2006 7:08:29 PM
miumi Rough Rock Total Posts: 85 Last Post: 1/16/2008 Member Since: 2/20/2006	Well here I am again. I've been posting about how my fi and I have been on the hunt for the perfect cushion. For me that means square, chunky facets, high crown, smallish culet, beautiful cut, eye clean and "warm" not yellow. Well I thought we found it when we found an 2.4 ct that at first glance made me swoon. The problem... it was uncertified. The dealer we bought it from said that it came out of a piece of antique jewelry. When we expressed concern, he sent it to a local lab in Ny and it came back as an I colored stone. I was still concerned with my fi, who has done very little diamond research, paying too much. So we did research and came to a price that seemed fair for a stone with the characteristics that we understood this one to have. Even this was a stretch of the budget. Anyway, he bought it with a full cash return policy and then took it to be appraised. Everything matched up with the local labs report, except the color. *It came back a K!!!!* Now, I am not a huge fan of completely colorless stones and probably prefer an H in the perfect world. An I was a comfortable stretch for me. But a K! Somehow, I can't get past a color that low for a number of reasons. So what do I do? It bothers me that it's a k even though the stone is beautiful to me. I'm also concerned that it will show yellow (I haven't been able to see it in all lighting). I think he paid too much. And, the dealer doesn't do upgrades so if we ever had to sell it/upgrade the value might be less than what we paid. Interestingly, the appraisal came back higher than what he paid. On the other hand, after looking for cushions for so long, I feel that this one is especially unique. Even the appraiser was fascinated with the beautiful cut. So PSers, I'm in a bit of a dilema and need to figure out what to do. Help
Posted: 4/4/2006 7:08:29 PM

There are 36 replies to this message. There are 30 replies on this page.

P: 4/4/2006 7:15:54 PM
Amandas_Jewels Rough Rock Total Posts: 90 Last Post: 4/19/2006 Member Since: 4/3/2006	This just goes to show you that Diamonds are ALWAYS over-graded.
Posted: 4/4/2006 7:15:54 PM

P: 4/4/2006 7:40:24 PM
sunkist Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,719 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 11/15/2005	Well price and money aside, it's just a grade. And K is just a letter. You said you love the stone. You also said you wanted a warmer colored stone. It sounds like that is exactly what you got, and that you love it! So why let a letter bother you? I would take pride in the fact that my "K" stone was beautiful! Get the stone back and take it around with you to a few places so you can see it in all lighting possiblities and if it still dazzles you then it sounds like you got a deal If it doesn't, then I have no idea what to do! Good luck!
Posted: 4/4/2006 7:40:24 PM

P: 4/4/2006 7:47:57 PM
aphisiglovessae Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,140 Last Post: 6/26/2007 Member Since: 4/15/2005	Was the diamond loose (as in not set)??
Posted: 4/4/2006 7:47:57 PM

P: 4/4/2006 8:00:49 PM
SuzyQZ Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,110 Last Post: 4/23/2009 Member Since: 2/20/2006	Don't let the color letter grade influence you. As hard as it may be, try to put it out of your mind. Once you've done that, LOOK at your diamond in different lighting and from different angles. Take pictures of it, sometimes pictures can be more revealing than our eye as the diamond sparkle won't camouflage the color. In the end, trust what you see, not what you are told. I have two "J"s and an "H" center in my three stone ring. All three stones match perfectly. Do I have a really bad H and two really good J's? Or do they just averagae out to three "I's". I don't know. What I DO know is that my ring sparkles like all get out and I don't see ANY color difference between the three stones under any lighting. So trust your eyes. No ring has a "letter grade" or "clarity" grade attached to it. If this diamond sings to you. Go for it. Just make sure you look at it in as many different types of light to make sure you are not surprised by any of it's different looks. If you don't like the look of it. Then it's time to go back and see what they can do for you. Good Luck! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ There are just some things you don't 'guess' about.... a womans age, her weight, or the size of her diamond! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SuzyQZ
Posted: 4/4/2006 8:00:49 PM

P: 4/4/2006 8:06:19 PM
fatafelice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,746 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 7/27/2004	OH! Try not to let the appraisal get to you! Look at it in all lights...If you love it, you love it! You might bring it up to the dealer if the price would be significantly different, but otherwise, it doesn't have to matter. Oh, and it wouldn't hurt if you post some pictures so we can judge better!
Posted: 4/4/2006 8:06:19 PM

P: 4/4/2006 8:21:27 PM
f0rbidden Cut Rock Total Posts: 318 Last Post: 11/9/2006 Member Since: 2/17/2006	I agree with the others. Follow your heart and nevermind what the piece of paper says. If you love it - you love it and isn't that what really matters?
Posted: 4/4/2006 8:21:27 PM

P: 4/4/2006 8:30:53 PM
miumi Rough Rock Total Posts: 85 Last Post: 1/16/2008 Member Since: 2/20/2006	The stone was (and is) loose when it was appraised. I think you guys are right about looking at it in different lights and following my heart. I am still struggling with the price. What do you think about renegotiating and how would you do it?
Posted: 4/4/2006 8:30:53 PM

P: 4/4/2006 8:42:12 PM
justjulia Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,303 Last Post: 7/23/2009 Member Since: 4/4/2006	I am so excited...this is my first post ever. I've been lurking forever on Pricescope and thought maybe I could actually register and join in the fun. So here are my humble 2 cents..I have been married for 21 years. I did not get (or really have interest) in getting a diamond until about 4 years ago when my dh surprised me. Well.... I am embarassed (I don't know why, but I just know how what I am about to say is going to probably sound) but I have upgraded 12 (yes, I said 12) times since then (all colors, almost shapes and sizes). Dh bought from a b and m with a fabulous policy. I have had every color from d to k. From 1 carot to my now 2.55 (sometimes going smaller to up the cut, color, etc and back again). Here is what I have ended up with: a K. Yep, a K. ...and I LOVE LOVE LOVE it. It is all about the cut. My K throws rainbows and light like you would not believe. I learned a lot here on Pricescope-- A LOT. It is a modified square brilliant-aka princess, which I know isn't like a cushion, but I just wanted to tell you to follow your heart in regards to what you see. The only thing that concerns me about your situation is that you cannot upgrade. I dont' know about you, but I always want that option down the road. Anyway, my K does not truly show color. It is not even "warm" to me. I will tell you that my first (round) was a J and was brown and I really didn't like it. Somewhere along the way, I had an H, which was yellowish, again, yucky. I had a beautiful emerald cut F along the way, too, and this K reminds me of that. I judge my diamonds colors by how they look in a bubble bath! lol lol julia "A thing of beauty is a joy forever." J Keats
Posted: 4/4/2006 8:42:12 PM

P: 4/4/2006 8:49:11 PM
Kaleigh Ideal Rock Total Posts: 25,899 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 11/18/2004	Date: 4/4/2006 8:42:12 PM Author: justjulia I am so excited...this is my first post ever. I've been lurking forever on Pricescope and thought maybe I could actually register and join in the fun. So here are my humble 2 cents..I have been married for 21 years. I did not get (or really have interest) in getting a diamond until about 4 years ago when my dh surprised me. Well.... I am embarassed (I don't know why, but I just know how what I am about to say is going to probably sound) but I have upgraded 12 (yes, I said 12) times since then (all colors, almost shapes and sizes). Dh bought from a b and m with a fabulous policy. I have had every color from d to k. From 1 carot to my now 2.55 (sometimes going smaller to up the cut, color, etc and back again). Here is what I have ended up with: a K. Yep, a K. ...and I LOVE LOVE LOVE it. It is all about the cut. My K throws rainbows and light like you would not believe. I learned a lot here on Pricescope-- A LOT. It is a modified square brilliant-aka princess, which I know isn't like a cushion, but I just wanted to tell you to follow your heart in regards to what you see. The only thing that concerns me about your situation is that you cannot upgrade. I dont' know about you, but I always want that option down the road. Anyway, my K does not truly show color. It is not even 'warm' to me. I will tell you that my first (round) was a J and was brown and I really didn't like it. Somewhere along the way, I had an H, which was yellowish, again, yucky. I had a beautiful emerald cut F along the way, too, and this K reminds me of that. I judge my diamonds colors by how they look in a bubble bath! lol lol julia Great first post Julia!!!! Welcome to PS!!! I agree 100% ____________________________ Piece of cake and a candle. ng gift
Posted: 4/4/2006 8:49:11 PM

P: 4/4/2006 8:51:35 PM
SuzyQZ Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,110 Last Post: 4/23/2009 Member Since: 2/20/2006	Do a search of the the various diamond databases available on the internet and see what diamonds of similar color and clarity are selling for. If the pricees are substantially different that what you paid, then you should go back and try to negotiate something. Maybe a discount on a matching wedding band or a discount on another item of jewelry, perhaps a mens wedding ring, etc. If you want to be able to bargain, you need to bring your appraisal and comparative prices for similar stones. Start there and see what the jeweler says. But before you go in, make sure you have decided whether or not you want to keep your diamond so you know clearly what it is you want to negotiate for, a return, exchange, refund, or discount on a future item. Good luck. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ There are just some things you don't 'guess' about.... a womans age, her weight, or the size of her diamond! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SuzyQZ
Posted: 4/4/2006 8:51:35 PM

P: 4/4/2006 8:52:33 PM
miumi Rough Rock Total Posts: 85 Last Post: 1/16/2008 Member Since: 2/20/2006	JJ, I'm so flattered to be your first post! Bubble bath??? HMMM, that's an idea. Maybe a good way to get fi to let me have long term possession of the stone before a decision is made.
Posted: 4/4/2006 8:52:33 PM

P: 4/4/2006 8:54:30 PM
miumi Rough Rock Total Posts: 85 Last Post: 1/16/2008 Member Since: 2/20/2006	Date: 4/4/2006 8:51:35 PM Author: SuzyQZ Do a search of the the various diamond databases available on the internet and see what diamonds of similar color and clarity are selling for. If the pricees are substantially different that what you paid, then you should go back and try to negotiate something. Maybe a discount on a matching wedding band or a discount on another item of jewelry, perhaps a mens wedding ring, etc. If you want to be able to bargain, you need to bring your appraisal and comparative prices for similar stones. Start there and see what the jeweler says. But before you go in, make sure you have decided whether or not you want to keep your diamond so you know clearly what it is you want to negotiate for, a return, exchange, refund, or discount on a future item. Good luck. Thanks SuzyQZ. That's what we'll do. What better excuse to spend time online looking for diamonds
Posted: 4/4/2006 8:54:30 PM

P: 4/4/2006 9:04:01 PM
justjulia Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,303 Last Post: 7/23/2009 Member Since: 4/4/2006	Thanks, Kaleigh!! "A thing of beauty is a joy forever." J Keats
Posted: 4/4/2006 9:04:01 PM

P: 4/4/2006 9:07:33 PM
indecisive Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,066 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 12/9/2005	It sounds gorgeous! I would love to see pictures!!
Posted: 4/4/2006 9:07:33 PM

P: 4/4/2006 9:14:35 PM
sunkist Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,719 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 11/15/2005	Date: 4/4/2006 8:54:30 PM Author: miumi Date: 4/4/2006 8:51:35 PM Author: SuzyQZ Do a search of the the various diamond databases available on the internet and see what diamonds of similar color and clarity are selling for. If the pricees are substantially different that what you paid, then you should go back and try to negotiate something. Maybe a discount on a matching wedding band or a discount on another item of jewelry, perhaps a mens wedding ring, etc. If you want to be able to bargain, you need to bring your appraisal and comparative prices for similar stones. Start there and see what the jeweler says. But before you go in, make sure you have decided whether or not you want to keep your diamond so you know clearly what it is you want to negotiate for, a return, exchange, refund, or discount on a future item. Good luck. Thanks SuzyQZ. That's what we'll do. What better excuse to spend time online looking for diamonds Yes, go search on databases to see what the going rate for a stone with this grade is. Then if the difference is significant and you want to negotiate, I'd suggest taking a print out of these rates with you so you have hard evidence that you over paid for this beautiful stone! Oh! do you have pictures??
Posted: 4/4/2006 9:14:35 PM

P: 4/4/2006 9:18:21 PM
widget Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,254 Last Post: 12/20/2008 Member Since: 11/12/2004	Well, from your description, and the way it "speaks" to you... it sure sounds like a keeper to me!! widget PS: Hi, Julia! Welcome!
Posted: 4/4/2006 9:18:21 PM

P: 4/4/2006 9:35:41 PM
justjulia Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,303 Last Post: 7/23/2009 Member Since: 4/4/2006	Miumi, Yes, I think this warrants several bubble baths. Hey, it's a big decision. I think everyone has great advice here--go back with those quotes in hand- couldn't hurt. ...and thanks, Widget!! julia "A thing of beauty is a joy forever." J Keats
Posted: 4/4/2006 9:35:41 PM

P: 4/4/2006 9:41:02 PM
monarch64 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 9,544 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 8/12/2005	I agree wholeheartedly with all of the above posts. Remember the old saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder!" (I have a J, by the way!!!) "Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you have imagined." Henry David Thoreau
Posted: 4/4/2006 9:41:02 PM

P: 4/4/2006 9:53:43 PM
miumi Rough Rock Total Posts: 85 Last Post: 1/16/2008 Member Since: 2/20/2006	I've been trying to get shots of the stone: 1) without fi seeing and 2) with a cheap camera phone No luck so far but I'll post as soon as I can. Has anyone ever renegotiated successfully?
Posted: 4/4/2006 9:53:43 PM

P: 4/4/2006 11:10:15 PM
Richard Sherwood Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,876 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 9/25/2002	There's approximately a 25% to 33% value difference between an "I" color and a "K" color, depending on the clarity of your stone. That's a fairly significant difference. I would take it back to the vendor along with the appraisal. He will probably argue that the appraiser is incorrect, which is a possibility. I would suggest you tell him you like the stone, but were under the impression you were buying an "I" color. Tell him you will keep it if (1) he refunds you the 25% to 33% difference in price, or (2) you will keep it for what you paid for it if the GIA grades it as an "I". If they grade it less, tell him you want the stone for whatever discount exists between the color grade they sold it to you as and what it really is. Tell him you're even willing to split the cost of the GIA cert with them. If they're not agreeable, tell them you want a total refund. That will get their attention. At least that's what I would do... Rich, Independent GG Appraiser Sarasota Gemological Laboratory
Posted: 4/4/2006 11:10:15 PM

P: 4/4/2006 11:13:23 PM
Kaleigh Ideal Rock Total Posts: 25,899 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 11/18/2004	Great advice Richard!! I would follow his advice to the letter. Good luck!!! ____________________________ Piece of cake and a candle. ng gift
Posted: 4/4/2006 11:13:23 PM

P: 4/4/2006 11:23:39 PM
Richard Sherwood Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,876 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 9/25/2002	Date: 4/4/2006 11:10:15 PM Author: Richard Sherwood There's approximately a 35% to 40% value difference between an 'I' color and a 'K' color, depending on the clarity of your stone. Forgive me. I calculated incorrectly. The difference is 25% to 33%, not 35% to 40%. For example: I1 clarity: 29% SI2 clarity: 25% SI1 clarity: 33% VS2 clarity: 28% I edited the above post to reflect this correction. Rich, Independent GG Appraiser Sarasota Gemological Laboratory
Posted: 4/4/2006 11:23:39 PM

P: 4/4/2006 11:31:55 PM
wallermama Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,030 Last Post: 4/25/2009 Member Since: 2/1/2006	I think Richards advice is spot on. That said... I think cushions are the yummiest when they are warm colored. Antique stones are usually like this and I adore it. To me, each cut of stone has its best range of color, and for me, the cushions and old mine cuts etc look the best warm. I have a D asscher in my e-ring. I have a K round brilliant in my three stone ring. I have an N! An N in Nancy! in a lovely ring my husband gave me that was his great-great-great grandmothers...it's a mine cut. I'm super sensitive to color in asschers, emeralds. Radiants, princess, RB... a little less. But cushions, OMC....oh give me a J! Give me a K L M or N! Don't let the "it must be colorless" mindset affect how you view this fabulous stone. *********************************** Nothing is worth more than this day. -Goethe
Posted: 4/4/2006 11:31:55 PM

P: 4/6/2006 12:33:38 AM
miumi Rough Rock Total Posts: 85 Last Post: 1/16/2008 Member Since: 2/20/2006	Thanks for all of the advice. We are having the stone appraised again this week by someone who seems very reputable and has some knowledge of antiques. Richard, the percentages you mentioned are very significant. Once we get the second appraisal, we plan to follow your advice exactly. I'll post when there is new info. Thanks again!
Posted: 4/6/2006 12:33:38 AM

P: 4/8/2006 11:49:20 PM
miumi Rough Rock Total Posts: 85 Last Post: 1/16/2008 Member Since: 2/20/2006	I have an update. I love the stone. So after getting all of your advice, we had the stone reappraised by a very reputable appraiser who also specializes in antique jewelry. This time I was there. As soon as we took the stone out he said that it was an antique cut and was pretty clear that we would not be able to find a replacement for it. From what I understand, the stone was cut in the late 1800s. In other words, the appraisal would have to take into account both rap pricing, and retail markup in the normal market and an additional markup for the uniqueness of the stone. At the end of the day, it appraised as a J - K stone. Thankfully, I convinced future fi to let me hold the stone to look at it in different lighting. Now all of you PSers know that I have had a field day. I've had it in every room of our house, in the back yard, front yard, in my car, I even took it out for drinks . I love it. It's really amazing to me and I can't put my finger on why. Also, future fi has fallen in love with it and doesn't care what he paid because he feels we've found something "as unique as me" isn't that sweet. (It doesn't hurt that the appraisal came back significantly over what he paid.) So I'm happy and yes, just julia, I too will be the proud owner of a k stone. Now, I just have to wait for the proposal and I've been told to stay away from the stone until then.
Posted: 4/8/2006 11:49:20 PM

P: 4/8/2006 11:55:02 PM
Richard Sherwood Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,876 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 9/25/2002	Sounds like the vendor sold it to you for a good price as even a J-K stone. Plus you've fallen in love with it... Congratulations. Rich, Independent GG Appraiser Sarasota Gemological Laboratory
Posted: 4/8/2006 11:55:02 PM

P: 4/9/2006 2:15:22 PM
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003	Wait a minute... it sounds like you loved this bit of diamond before someone came up with a color grade. The stone couldn't have changed into something you don't like! Is the price n line with the K grade? H would be quite 'colorless' by comparison and quite a bit higher priced. If the price is OK and you do like the stone as much as the first post says you did before the unfortunate appraisal... why not keep the stone and burn the paper Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian]
Posted: 4/9/2006 2:15:22 PM

P: 4/9/2006 2:19:37 PM
mrssalvo Ideal Rock Total Posts: 16,856 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 1/3/2005	Date: 4/8/2006 11:49:20 PM Author: miumi So I'm happy and yes, just julia, I too will be the proud owner of a k stone. Now, I just have to wait for the proposal and I've been told to stay away from the stone until then. Please come back and show us pictures once you get it ----------------------------- A deal is only a deal if you are getting exactly what you want.
Posted: 4/9/2006 2:19:37 PM

P: 4/9/2006 2:24:28 PM
moon river Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,806 Last Post: 6/26/2006 Member Since: 1/7/2006	I hope you just fall in love with it when you see it. There are some incredible 'K's here on PS and their owners are very happy. If you find you can't live with it then don't. It's not good to go through life unhappy. _____________________________ "Oh, Golly gee damn!!" ---------------------------- "I'll tell you one thing Fred darling...I'd marry you for your money in a minute. Would you marry me for my money?" *Holly Golightly*
Posted: 4/9/2006 2:24:28 PM

P: 4/10/2006 1:26:50 PM
miumi Rough Rock Total Posts: 85 Last Post: 1/16/2008 Member Since: 2/20/2006	You are right Valeria. I loved the stone from the beginning and the appraisal was a bummer that had me distracted for a moment. After I got to play with the stone for a day, I realized how beautiful it really is. I think we got really lucky and future fi is very happy with what he paid. He's since snatched the stone back and hidden it in this very house. So I am impatiently waiting for his propsal if he's not too sick of me after this diamond search. Hopefully we'll be engaged soon. Of course I'll go crazy with the pictures once that ring is in my eager little hands.
Posted: 4/10/2006 1:26:50 PM

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