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Girdle Question |
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| P: 3/13/2006 10:31:18 AM | |
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kenny Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,871 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005 |
I read John Q's thread about this painted and dug in girdles: http://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=36102&forumID=32&catID=&search=1&searchstring= I'm confused. Why does the direction of polishing matter? Is diamond like wood, with grain? If so, since a round diamond is round they have to polish facets over the full 360 degrees. So wouldn't it be a wash? And why would direction of polish result in different crown angles anyway? You could polish away more or less regardless of direction of polish or grain. And couldn't they polish any facet to any angle? ___________________ Keep asking questions. |
| Posted: 3/13/2006 10:31:18 AM | |
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There are 23 replies to this message. There are 23 replies on this page. |
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| P: 3/13/2006 10:44:26 AM | |
Carlotta Cut Rock Total Posts: 348 Last Post: 2/21/2007 Member Since: 2/16/2006 |
Have been searching, also......... Did you see this article???? www.diamondcut.gia.edu/pd/6_05_RDR_pg239_243pdf.pdf |
| Posted: 3/13/2006 10:44:26 AM | |
| P: 3/13/2006 10:45:40 AM | |
Carlotta Cut Rock Total Posts: 348 Last Post: 2/21/2007 Member Since: 2/16/2006 |
looks like the link didn't work.....maybe you can find it .......... |
| Posted: 3/13/2006 10:45:40 AM | |
| P: 3/13/2006 10:54:45 AM | |
Carlotta Cut Rock Total Posts: 348 Last Post: 2/21/2007 Member Since: 2/16/2006 |
try again www.diamondcut.gia.edu/pdf/6_05_RDR_pg239_243pdf.pdf |
| Posted: 3/13/2006 10:54:45 AM | |
| P: 3/13/2006 10:56:56 AM | |
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Lynn B Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,151 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 5/9/2004 |
Good question, Kenny, I am unclear on this still - and I just re-read JohnQ's thread, too! (In fact, I posted this very question over on Rhino's GIA thread - but this is probably the better place to ask.) Is there any way to tell if my AGS-0 stone has a painted girdle? Thanks, Lynn And THAT'S my story and I'm sticking to it! |
| Posted: 3/13/2006 10:56:56 AM | |
| P: 3/13/2006 11:05:31 AM | |
Carlotta Cut Rock Total Posts: 348 Last Post: 2/21/2007 Member Since: 2/16/2006 |
Lynn, can you get the link to work???? (newbie here.........)!!! Thanks.......... |
| Posted: 3/13/2006 11:05:31 AM | |
| P: 3/13/2006 1:17:39 PM | |
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JohnQuixote Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,212 Last Post: 5/24/2008 Member Since: 9/9/2004 |
Date: 3/13/2006 10:31:18 AM Author:kenny I read John Q's thread about this painted and dug in girdles: http://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=36102&forumID=32&catID=&search=1&searchstring= I'm confused. Why does the direction of polishing matter? Is diamond like wood, with grain? If so, since a round diamond is round they have to polish facets over the full 360 degrees. So wouldn't it be a wash? And why would direction of polish result in different crown angles anyway? You could polish away more or less regardless of direction of polish or grain. And couldn't they polish any facet to any angle? Kenny, Graining in diamonds is very complex. Diamonds will only run on the wheel in certain directions. One facet may run in one direction, another may run only in another direction. Each facet is 'taken' (run on the wheel) from a planned starting point to a planned finishing point. In a general sense, upper and lower girdle facet polishing is done from girdle outward or from the poles inward as indicated in the photos. Unlike wood polishing, the facet face must be polished in one specific direction and it must be flat unto itself. The polishing wheel is impregnated with diamond dust. Any contact removes material from the diamond being polished. Even if you run it for a moment, the starting point of contact will have more material removed than the finishing point of contact. This means if you choose to begin at the girdle and polish towards the crown or pavilion (traditional brillianteering and 'digging') there will be more material polished away from the girdle area than the finishing point. If you choose to begin at the star, or on the pavilion, and finish at the girdle (painting) there will be more material polished away from the starting point than from the girdle. In general, most diamonds are traditionally finished. If the girdle is quite thick it may be more aggressively polished starting at the girdle, or 'dug' in order to reduce the girdle's thickness. A with a medium or thin girdle at the time of brillianteering may be painted to preserve the girdle and, in the case of optically symmetrical diamonds, to acquire the no light-leakage, broadfire effect. ![]() John |
| Posted: 3/13/2006 1:17:39 PM | |
| P: 3/13/2006 1:41:57 PM | |
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JohnQuixote Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,212 Last Post: 5/24/2008 Member Since: 9/9/2004 |
Date: 3/13/2006 10:56:56 AM Author: Lynn B Is there any way to tell if my AGS-0 stone has a painted girdle? Ideal-scope images below: Traditional brillianteering (left), painting (right). ![]() John |
| Posted: 3/13/2006 1:41:57 PM | |
| P: 3/13/2006 1:49:02 PM | |
Small Ideal Rock Total Posts: 957 Last Post: 4/18/2008 Member Since: 2/3/2006 |
Thanks for posting this...I was having a hard time understanding all of that as well. With John's IS pictures and explanation I understand a bit better
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| Posted: 3/13/2006 1:49:02 PM | |
| P: 3/13/2006 1:56:29 PM | |
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oldminer Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,966 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 9/4/2000 |
It sure sounds as if either painting or digging can be useful in getting a sought after overall end result. These are expert terms that are nothing new, but people seem to feel a little frightened when they hear the terminology. Nearly every diamond has a decision maing process behind its cutting. The end result is what the consumer gets to appreciate. When done properly, there is no problem with an appropriate amount of painting or digging. When the diamond is finished, it speaks for itself.
David S. Atlas |
| Posted: 3/13/2006 1:56:29 PM | |
| P: 3/13/2006 2:02:16 PM | |
Carlotta Cut Rock Total Posts: 348 Last Post: 2/21/2007 Member Since: 2/16/2006 |
Date: 3/13/2006 1:56:29 PM Author: oldminer It sure sounds as if either painting or digging can be useful in getting a sought after overall end result. These are expert terms that are nothing new, but people seem to feel a little frightened when they hear the terminology. Nearly every diamond has a decision maing process behind its cutting. The end result is what the consumer gets to appreciate. When done properly, there is no problem with an appropriate amount of painting or digging. When the diamond is finished, it speaks for itself. But re: the above GIA article - how can the consumer know when it is enough/vs too much??? And why isn't this disclosed/represened on the AGS cert??? The consurmer should be able to make an INFORMED choice..... |
| Posted: 3/13/2006 2:02:16 PM | |
| P: 3/13/2006 2:35:21 PM | |
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JohnQuixote Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,212 Last Post: 5/24/2008 Member Since: 9/9/2004 |
Date: 3/13/2006 2:02:16 PM Author: Carlotta But re: the above GIA article - how can the consumer know when it is enough/vs too much??? And why isn't this disclosed/represened on the AGS cert??? The consurmer should be able to make an INFORMED choice..... Carlotta, these are differences in microns, with no agreed definitions. One group might say 'this diamond is digged' where another would disagree. The practical approach suggests it's 'too much' if the effects on performance are deleterious. AGS accounts for this in their light performance metric. Every diamond is measured, so a diamond with great optics, where brillianteering is additive, will still acquire a 0 in the light performance grade. If the brillianteering (whether traditional, dug or painted) was deleterious it will not. GIA has decided to profile all diamonds with non-traditional brillianteering as deleterious, even if the brillianteering was additive. This protects consumers against average situations where the intent was to retain weight at the expense of beauty. Unfortunately it also stereotypes some carefully crafted premium diamonds as behaving a certain way when they do not. John |
| Posted: 3/13/2006 2:35:21 PM | |
| P: 3/13/2006 2:36:23 PM | |
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JohnQuixote Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,212 Last Post: 5/24/2008 Member Since: 9/9/2004 |
Date: 3/13/2006 1:56:29 PM Author: oldminer It sure sounds as if either painting or digging can be useful in getting a sought after overall end result. These are expert terms that are nothing new, but people seem to feel a little frightened when they hear the terminology. Nearly every diamond has a decision maing process behind its cutting. The end result is what the consumer gets to appreciate. When done properly, there is no problem with an appropriate amount of painting or digging. When the diamond is finished, it speaks for itself. Well-said. John |
| Posted: 3/13/2006 2:36:23 PM | |
| P: 3/13/2006 3:27:11 PM | |
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Lynn B Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,151 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 5/9/2004 |
Thanks, John. Appreciate the detailed information. Feeling a bit ashamed to admit this but still wondering... is this, then, (likely) a painted girdle? (It's the IS of my stone. 2.36 AGS-0, 55, 60.5, 34.4, 40.8) Thanks! Lynn ![]() And THAT'S my story and I'm sticking to it! |
| Posted: 3/13/2006 3:27:11 PM | |
| P: 3/13/2006 9:38:28 PM | |
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JohnQuixote Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,212 Last Post: 5/24/2008 Member Since: 9/9/2004 |
Date: 3/13/2006 3:27:11 PM Author: Lynn B Thanks, John. Appreciate the detailed information. Feeling a bit ashamed to admit this but still wondering... is this, then, (likely) a painted girdle? (It's the IS of my stone. 2.36 AGS-0, 55, 60.5, 34.4, 40.8) Be not ashamed. Asking questions is good. I can't say 100% without more; remember, 34.3 and 40.8 are each averages of 8 different numbers - they reveal nothing of the 16 upper girdle angles, 8 star facet angles & % on the crown, and 16 lower girdle angles on the pavilion (stars look to be 50-55%). Having made the disclaimer... Yes - most crown facet junctions in your ideal-scope image are consistent with painting. ![]() Author: Oldminer Nearly every diamond has a decision maing process behind its cutting. The end result is what the consumer gets to appreciate. When done properly, there is no problem with an appropriate amount of painting or digging. When the diamond is finished, it speaks for itself. How does your diamond speak, Lynn? John |
| Posted: 3/13/2006 9:38:28 PM | |
| P: 3/13/2006 9:44:56 PM | |
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Lynn B Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,151 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 5/9/2004 |
Date: 3/13/2006 9:38:28 PM Author: JohnQuixote Date: 3/13/2006 3:27:11 PM ...How does your diamond speak, Lynn? It speaks quite well, thank you! It says charming and modest things like, "Aren't I pretty?", "Aren't I sparkly?!", and "You love me, don't you?" Lynn PS Thanks for the info, John. That's what I *thought*! ![]() PPS ETA: Has the dang "QUOTE" feature changed lately? I am having a HECKUVA time with it these days!!!
And THAT'S my story and I'm sticking to it! |
| Posted: 3/13/2006 9:44:56 PM | |
| P: 3/13/2006 9:55:01 PM | |
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Lynn B Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,151 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 5/9/2004 |
And John, TOTALLY off-topic, but how in the world do you quote two different "authors" (me and Dave) in ONE post, like you did above? Apparently I am either Quote-Challenged or living in Quote Purgatory because I am having a terrible time!!!! ![]() Thanks! Lynn And THAT'S my story and I'm sticking to it! |
| Posted: 3/13/2006 9:55:01 PM | |
| P: 3/14/2006 2:29:06 AM | |
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jasontb Cut Rock Total Posts: 226 Last Post: 5/14/2009 Member Since: 2/10/2006 |
Date: 3/13/2006 9:55:01 PM Author: Sample Quote 1 I made this message up , it's not real Date: 3/13/2006 9:55:01 PM Author: Sample Quote 2 Another sample. You can make all the quotes you want by just using the html tags for quotes in your message. To start a quote, type the word QUOTE inside square brackets []. To end a quote, type /QUOTE inside square brackets []. If you want to add the bold date and author lines to you quote, use the tags in the brackets as before. Now make the first two lines of the quote: <*b>Date: 3/13/2006 9:55:01 PM <*b>Author: Sample Quote 2 but don't put the *'s in fron of the b's Favorite Color: Blue Hair Color: Brown Maybe John used some simpler method that I don't know about. But I think he did it by copying and pasting text and html as I descibed above.
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| Posted: 3/14/2006 2:29:06 AM | |
| P: 3/14/2006 6:16:58 AM | |
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Lynn B Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,151 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 5/9/2004 |
Jason, Thanks so much for the Quote 101 Lesson! I appreciate it! ![]() So you don't use the "QUOTE" button at all, then? Lynn And THAT'S my story and I'm sticking to it! |
| Posted: 3/14/2006 6:16:58 AM | |
| P: 3/14/2006 10:08:01 AM | |
Sunshines Rough Rock Total Posts: 46 Last Post: 7/16/2006 Member Since: 2/23/2006 |
Hi guys, sorry, still dont quite understand the painting and dugging techniques, some quick questions.... can GIA Ex cut and AGS O Ideal (supposedly the top stuff) be potentially painted or dug? will the price of stone be affected as a result of the techniques?
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| Posted: 3/14/2006 10:08:01 AM | |
| P: 3/14/2006 2:39:46 PM | |
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JohnQuixote Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,212 Last Post: 5/24/2008 Member Since: 9/9/2004 |
Date: 3/13/2006 9:55:01 PM Author: Lynn B And John, TOTALLY off-topic, but how in the world do you quote two different 'authors' (me and Dave) in ONE post, like you did above? Apparently I am either Quote-Challenged or living in Quote Purgatory because I am having a terrible time!!!! ![]() Thanks! Lynn LOL Lynn. I do a lazier version of the Jason method. I go to the first post I want to quote, hit reply, select HTML at the bottom, then hit quote. The quote is imported in HTML format. I copy it, hit cancel, go to the second post, hit reply, select html, hit quote and import that quote in HTML. I paste the first text (HTML of the first quote) above or below, put in a <br> and select Normal at the bottom. It all reverts to normal view, with both quotes, and I can do as I wish. John |
| Posted: 3/14/2006 2:39:46 PM | |
| P: 3/14/2006 2:54:58 PM | |
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jasontb Cut Rock Total Posts: 226 Last Post: 5/14/2009 Member Since: 2/10/2006 |
Date: 3/14/2006 6:16:58 AM Author: Lynn B Jason, Thanks so much for the Quote 101 Lesson! I appreciate it! ![]() So you don't use the 'QUOTE' button at all, then? Lynn As John said, I think the easiest thing to do is use the quote button to have the forum software generate everything automatically. But then you can edit/copy/paste it as html to your heart's content.
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| Posted: 3/14/2006 2:54:58 PM | |
| P: 3/14/2006 6:44:32 PM | |
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Lynn B Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,151 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 5/9/2004 |
Thanks, guys! YOUS IS DA BEST! And THAT'S my story and I'm sticking to it! |
| Posted: 3/14/2006 6:44:32 PM | |
| P: 3/14/2006 11:30:08 PM | |
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JohnQuixote Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,212 Last Post: 5/24/2008 Member Since: 9/9/2004 |
Date: 3/13/2006 1:56:29 PM Author: oldminer It sure sounds as if either painting or digging can be useful in getting a sought after overall end result. These are expert terms that are nothing new, but people seem to feel a little frightened when they hear the terminology. Nearly every diamond has a decision maing process behind its cutting. The end result is what the consumer gets to appreciate. When done properly, there is no problem with an appropriate amount of painting or digging. When the diamond is finished, it speaks for itself. I'm seeing this as well. John |
| Posted: 3/14/2006 11:30:08 PM | |
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