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Harry Winston |
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| P: 1/8/2003 3:19:16 PM | |
pherlee Rough Rock Total Posts: 2 Last Post: 1/9/2003 Member Since: 1/8/2003 |
Pardon my ignorance but does Harry Winston carry any engagement rings around the range of 1 carat, VS1, color F? All I hear from that place are 3 carat diamond rings over $60K. And their website isn't very helpful. I feel embarrassed to even call them only to have them laugh at me for asking for such a puny diamond.
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| Posted: 1/8/2003 3:19:16 PM | |
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There are 32 replies to this message. There are 30 replies on this page. |
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| P: 1/8/2003 3:46:38 PM | |
DiamondOptics.com Cut Rock Total Posts: 380 Last Post: 3/15/2006 Member Since: 6/27/2002 |
Hi The reputation of Harry Winston preceed them. But comparable cut qualities, if not better, can be found right here with excellent prices. Buy Informed! Kirk Konst
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| Posted: 1/8/2003 3:46:38 PM | |
| P: 1/8/2003 10:57:47 PM | |
diamondsman Ideal Rock Total Posts: 626 Last Post: 12/3/2009 Member Since: 11/11/2002 |
 your best bet is to go on line and check out the different sites and see who gives you the best deal for your money!there are great deals out there plus the fact that if you shop out of your state you will not pay sales tax. and you can use this money towards upgrading of your dream stone!! "shop and compare" good luck diamondsman 
Diamondsman |
| Posted: 1/8/2003 10:57:47 PM | |
| P: 1/9/2003 2:57:17 AM | |
optimized Cut Rock Total Posts: 306 Last Post: 11/1/2003 Member Since: 12/28/2002 |
Then again, all this poor soul asked was whether Harry Winston carried a specific size/style of diamond. Even a second reading of the question doesn't seem to indicate any desire by the originator of the thread to be given advice on other places to look for a ring. I know I risk getting people all wound up by posting comments like this, but I sometimes just read things in the forum that make me wish for a different focus. Me being me, I tend to speak up when I see this. I've seen many threads on the boards where a person seeking specific information is instead given advice completely unrelated to their question. In my experience, that advice is almost always of the "you should consider shopping on the Internet instead," and IMO not so coincidentally, those suggestions frequently seem to come from owners/stakeholders of online diamond sites. It bothers me that a person can't ask a simple question without getting some sort of advice to shop for their diamond online or being directed to specific dealers. In this case, Pherlee asked a simple question about items stocked by a very specific diamond dealer (a question so simple it could actually be answered with a "yes" or a "no"), but instead of actually addressing the question, the first two respondents disregard the query completely and basically try to steer Pherlee's interest away from Harry Winston and toward Internet dealers, which (surprise, surprise) both of them are. Both posts are careful to not specifically mention their respective sites by name in the body of their posts (which would be a blatant violation of Pricescope policy), but they of course have their diamond site homepages at the bottom of their posts (which is allowed under the terms), so it's fairly obvious where they would like Pherlee to go. To me, that's akin to being on a car enthusiast message board, asking a question about whether Mercedes has a model with four-wheel drive, and being answered with a message from a Subaru dealer telling them to "consider buying a four-wheel drive Subaru and get more for your money." How exactly does that address the question? Do you think someone asking a question about a Mercedes is really in the market for a Subaru? Even if they would consider the Subaru, why would one presume to mention it without being asked? Maybe the Subaru is a fine car, but the poster didn't ask for suggestions on other makes of car, and definitely didn't ask for suggestions from a dealer who has an obvious vested interest in seeing the buyer shop in their venue. I personally purchased a branded diamond over the Internet, and I was absolutely thrilled with the experience from beginning to end. I was given a level of personalized and professional service that I wasn't expecting from an online retailer, and I would heartily recommend their services to anyone. But, I don't mention the specific dealer in the forums unless I feel it's truly relevant to the topic because I try to keep my posts as germane to the actual question as possible. Even with this self-imposed restriction, I still manage to find plenty of opportunities to share my experiences and mention the dealer I purchased from, but it's always because the original poster asked for the opinion. IMO, posting a simple question about a specific bricks & mortar dealer should not result in posts from competing online dealers suggesting the original poster shop the Internet. IMO, the person who started the thread should be given the opportunity to ask a question without getting unsolicited suggestions on where to shop. I truly think it's in the interest of everyone who enjoys the forum to try to keep it this way. IMO, if newbies to the boards start to see the entire forum as just a marketing tool for those vendors that get a lot of unsolicited referrals (or directly post comments like the ones here), more people will disregard the forums as a scam engineered by the active and/or popular dealers, and fewer and fewer people will be willing to post their questions. I would hate to see that happen, as I've become fond of the forum and all the interesting technical topics that pop up. DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed in this post are my own. I have no professional affiliation with any aspect of the diamond industry. I am simply a consumer who went through the process of buying an engagement diamond and found that I thoroughly enjoyed the education I received and the topic of gemstones in general. Although some might protest, I firmly believe that I have an accurate grasp of what the spirit of the RockyTalk forum is intended to be, and I rail against what I see as direct or indirect assaults on what the boards are supposed to provide. -Tim "Economy of words has never been my strong suit" |
| Posted: 1/9/2003 2:57:17 AM | |
| P: 1/9/2003 4:11:59 AM | |
Pricescope Administrator Total Posts: 8,265 Last Post: 1/5/2008 Member Since: 1/1/2000 |
Pherlee: ----Don't feel embarrassed to call and ask! Btw, Charles Winston (aka charlesw4) didn't feel embarrassed to post here: ----------------I agree with Tim. Vendors, PLEASE! Pricescope |
| Posted: 1/9/2003 4:11:59 AM | |
| P: 1/9/2003 8:35:14 AM | |
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diamondsman Ideal Rock Total Posts: 626 Last Post: 12/3/2009 Member Since: 11/11/2002 |
I don't think that the person who wrote that big article realizes that sometimes by telling what you think about a certain company especially if it is a negative response you could be facing a lawsuit for defamation of a name, unfortunately everybody is suing everyone these days! therfore we somtimes also have to choose the words we use in order not to offend anyone and try not to take away business from anyone,we merely are sugessing another alternative , her question was not about diamonds it was about how to approach? or if to approach? we just gave her another alternative !!we are all here to be informative as possible and we want to give the consumers the beast deal they can get!! hence the name "pricescope" diamondsmman
Diamondsman |
| Posted: 1/9/2003 8:35:14 AM | |
| P: 1/9/2003 10:09:44 AM | |
aljdewey Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,236 Last Post: 2/11/2008 Member Since: 11/25/2002 |
Diamondsman wrote: "...we merely are sugessing another alternative , her question was not about diamonds it was about how to approach? or if to approach? we just gave her another alternative !!we are all here to be informative as possible and we want to give the consumers the beast deal they can get!! hence the name "pricescope" In a word.....BULL. The original poster asked a simple question...."does Harry Winston carry smaller (1 ct.) stones?" The poster did NOT ask 1) should I find a more economical source, 2) do you know of any place I can get a better deal, 3) how do Harry Winston diamonds compare value-wise to other sources. To suggest alternatives when NONE WERE ASKED FOR is just rude and against the spirit of this board. Please knock it off. Answer the question at hand or don't reply. It's that simple. Sorry to be so blunt, but it seems subtler messages just aren't doing the trick lately here. _____________________ |
| Posted: 1/9/2003 10:09:44 AM | |
| P: 1/9/2003 10:14:23 AM | |
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diamondsman Ideal Rock Total Posts: 626 Last Post: 12/3/2009 Member Since: 11/11/2002 |
I feel embarrassed to even call them only to have them laugh at me for asking for such a puny diamond.  it seems as though you are only reading what you want to read what about the above sentence ? why asren't you mentioning that at all???????in your "BLunt" remark. and please be a little nicer in your words "BULL" no need to use these words on this forum!! Diamondsman |
| Posted: 1/9/2003 10:14:23 AM | |
| P: 1/9/2003 11:55:16 AM | |
wwmnb Rough Rock Total Posts: 16 Last Post: 1/20/2003 Member Since: 12/24/2002 |
I'm sorry Diamondsman, but what I think the original posted meant about being embarassed to call was that she would rather ask us here online if they carried smaller stones than call Harry Winston and be embarassed. It didn't mean she wanted other alternatives. |
| Posted: 1/9/2003 11:55:16 AM | |
| P: 1/9/2003 12:41:14 PM | |
Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 28,533 Last Post: 2/9/2010 Member Since: 10/30/2002 |
In slight defense of Kirk and Diamondsman..neither of them told the original poster WHERE to shop, but rather said 'shop online' and 'find better diamonds right here'...so I didn't necessarily read those two posts as solicitations for *their* services. In light of this..I think the resulting posts were a little negative and harsh..though Tim made a good point about straying off topic (we all do this once in a while in our desire to help others by maybe giving more info than was requested). To the original poster, call up HW and ask them your question. If they laugh at you or otherwise treat you badly, chances are you don't want to work with them anyway. Good luck! :) ________________________________ |
| Posted: 1/9/2003 12:41:14 PM | |
| P: 1/9/2003 12:41:21 PM | |
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diamondsman Ideal Rock Total Posts: 626 Last Post: 12/3/2009 Member Since: 11/11/2002 |
maybe we should have her comment?? Diamondsman |
| Posted: 1/9/2003 12:41:21 PM | |
| P: 1/9/2003 2:21:22 PM | |
sam71 Rough Rock Total Posts: 7 Last Post: 1/9/2003 Member Since: 12/3/2002 |
I think anyone has the right to add their opinion, but it would be more helpful and appreciated if the question was answered first. Otherwise the advice can appear to be self-serving or diversionary even if it's not meant that way. Just my two cents. |
| Posted: 1/9/2003 2:21:22 PM | |
| P: 1/9/2003 2:47:26 PM | |
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optimized Cut Rock Total Posts: 306 Last Post: 11/1/2003 Member Since: 12/28/2002 |
A post about my original criticisms of the replies to Pherlee's question is forthcoming, but I suddenly realized that nobody had yet actually answered the question, so I decided to call the New York Harry Winston location (1 (212) 245-2000), and get some information. According to the two sales associates I spoke with (who were very friendly, btw, and didn't seem to mind my questions at all), Harry Winston diamonds start at one carat and up (waaaay up). The colors stocked are D through F, but they occasionally get "high Gs" upon request, and their stock clarities are from flawless to VS2, but tend toward the F-VVS range. Entry level pricing would be around $15,000. Hope this helps... -Tim "Economy of words has never been my strong suit" |
| Posted: 1/9/2003 2:47:26 PM | |
| P: 1/9/2003 3:29:36 PM | |
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pherlee Rough Rock Total Posts: 2 Last Post: 1/9/2003 Member Since: 1/8/2003 |
First, I'm actually a he, though I guess it really doesn't matter. Second, thank you very, very much Optimized. I know I was a little vague with the question but here's the deal. I was actually set on a Cartier ring that had the same description I gave on my posting and I was just wondering if HW carried the same type of ring. I always hear Cartier, Tiffany's, and HW in the same sentence but I wasn't sure if they were actually at the same level. There are Cartier and Tiffany stores where I live so I was able to walk into them. The closest HW to me is in New York City which is quite a distance for me. The girl I hope to marry and I are planning to visit New York City, which is where I plan to pop the question. If HW is accommodating enough, I would like them to ship me the ring. If not, we could always go together to the store during our trip and pick one. So I'm just doing research before the trip. But since you called HW, and again I thank you very much, I will call them because the price range is very close to Cartier. 
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| Posted: 1/9/2003 3:29:36 PM | |
| P: 1/9/2003 5:46:37 PM | |
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optimized Cut Rock Total Posts: 306 Last Post: 11/1/2003 Member Since: 12/28/2002 |
Diamondsman wrote: I don't think that the person who wrote that big article realizes that sometimes by telling what you think about a certain company especially if it is a negative response you could be facing a lawsuit for defamation of a name, unfortunately everybody is suing everyone these days! therfore I think aljdewey pretty much summed up my response to that post. Contrary to the above excerpt of your post, Pherlee's question specifically and unequivocally is "about diamonds," specifically, about the types of diamonds stocked by Harry Winston. It was not about "how to approach" or "if to approach" Harry Winston. It was about whether Harry Winston stores stock one carat, F, VS1 diamonds, period. He didn't ask (as Diamondsman asserts) "what you think about a certain company," so there was no need for anybody to get into a situation where they might be sued. Neither of the two initial esteemed respondents addressed the question at all. For Diamondsman (who I just realized seems to never actually use his real name on the forum - why is that?) to claim that his comments were somehow germane to the topic is a pretty painful stretch, IMO. No solicitation for advice on where to shop was presented by the originator of the thread. No questions concerning whether Harry Winston was good/bad was present. The replies were simply off-topic, period. I hadn't intended for my comments to specifically single out Diamondsman in any way, but his incredulously "oh so innocent" reply to my post has prompted me to look a little further. As a result, a little impromptu study of Diamondsman's posts reveals that out of 57 posts, no fewer than 19 of them suggest the originator of the thread "check out online dealers and compare." Some of these posts were a result of the questioner asking for suggestions on where to shop, many decidedly were not. At least three of these posts also specifically mention his site in his recommendation (something like, "I found this great diamond on www.buydiamonddirect.com that you should look at,") and a couple of those even assume the third-person (saying something like "they offer" rather than "I offer"), thus further obfuscating the independence of the recommendation. The fondness of Diamondsman of indirectly touting some of his own company's policies (like in I also notice that Diamondsman is extremely fond of mentioning that buying from an out-of-state dealer allows the buyer to avoid taxes, which for the record is actually not exactly correct. While online dealers are not required (at the moment) to collect sales tax on sales to customers who do not live in a state the dealer has a physical presence in, if the state in which the buyer lives has a sales tax at all the buyer is still required to pay taxes (often on state income tax filings). This tax is known as a "use tax" and is designed primarily to allow states to continue to receive their tax revenue on any item purchased from within its borders. The only real difference between sales tax and use tax is who actually transfers the money to the state (buyer or seller). To advocate buying on the Internet to avoid taxes is usually to advocate breaking the law. Mara wrote: "In slight defense of Kirk and Diamondsman..neither of them told the original poster WHERE to shop, but rather said 'shop online' and 'find better diamonds right here'...so I didn't necessarily read those two posts as solicitations for *their* services. In light of this..I think the resulting posts were a little negative and harsh." First of all Mara, I appreciate your input and in no way am attacking your opinion with this comment (I just wanted to start out with that statement so you know that the overall tone of this post doesn't apply to you in any way). :) But, my opinion is that any comment at all about shopping online is an inappropriate reply to a question about whether Harry Winston stocks a certain type of diamond. I would go further and say that I believe the only reason their posts didn't specifically tell Pherlee to go to their respective sites is because that would be explicitly and strictly forbidden by the I'll be the first to admit that I sometimes forcefully rail against these sorts of posts, but I don't think it's too harsh in light of the fact that IMO they aren't really "contributing" to the thread (in this case one about a specific respected bricks & mortar dealer) with their posts espousing the virtues of the online diamond industry. Let's face it, the world of online diamond shopping is not the end all and be all of the diamond industry. The planet has gotten by for centuries without the benefit of Internet diamond retailers, and the first thing to pop out of these forums certainly doesn't need to be "shop online, shop online, shop online," without regard to the actual question being asked. Anyway, as just about anybody can tell, I feel pretty strongly about this issue. I really enjoy the forums here for their lively and informative threads, but I also am very sensitive to dealers attempting to use the forums as a means to promote their own specific products and see this behavior as a real threat to the life of Pricescope. As I said previously, the risk to the forums is that they will become perceived simply as marketing tools, and a casual browser will immediately be scared away by the incessant comments from dealers pointing them in directions they may have no interest in going. This thread is a classic example: New member of the forum asks a question about a specific bricks & mortar vendor, and two competing online vendors immediately reply with posts that completely ignore the question and try to steer the original poster toward buying online. It's the kind of thing that is just contrary to what the boards are supposed to be about.... -Tim "Economy of words has never been my strong suit" |
| Posted: 1/9/2003 5:46:37 PM | |
| P: 1/9/2003 6:17:23 PM | |
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Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 28,533 Last Post: 2/9/2010 Member Since: 10/30/2002 |
I agree that there are ideas on what the boards are 'supposed' to be about, but everyone's ideas are going to be different. That is just life. If the posters (whoever they may be) are skirting the line..as long as they stay within that line..personally I don't see a problem with what they are saying. If Leonid decides to change the rules to make them more stringent, that is his perogative. We are all just visitors in his house is how I view it. I am here to try to help other consumers such as myself who might need some sort of assistance in the direction they request. To me, this is a perfect example of making a bit of a mountain out of a molehill. This same thing happened last week (?) when a similar off-topic response was given, and a similar off-topic discussion ensued over what is right, what is acceptable, etc. Obviously nothing was determined, as we are all here having this same conversation again a week later. The original poster probably didn't care that he got 2 random responses saying 'check out online sales'..he probably would have waited until Tim's gracious post about calling HW came through..and then gone away happy. But instead this thread has turned into another big off-topic 'what's acceptable' discussion. You have to take the good with the bad, as long as the rules are being followed. This being an unmoderated public forum, there are always going to be debates over what is acceptable to one person vs another. Not that I don't agree somewhat with what Tim and others have said...but I guess the bottom line for me is...the rules are the rules, and anything existing outside of them is debatable until the cows come home. Nothing will change, and we will all still be here to try to assist in our own ways, however significant or insignificant they may be. My two cents :) I guess I'll stop wasting my keyboard strokes now and do some work!
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| Posted: 1/9/2003 6:17:23 PM | |
| P: 1/9/2003 7:49:51 PM | |
trichrome Cut Rock Total Posts: 397 Last Post: 3/22/2004 Member Since: 12/9/2002 |
Don't make me laugh. Why do you think that all these diamond sellers are here for? To help you?... No, they know that at the end...they'll be able to sell diamondsto you because they were "kind" on this forum. This is a sale marketing technique..... MONEY rules out this forum.... Best regards, Trichrome.
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| Posted: 1/9/2003 7:49:51 PM | |
| P: 1/9/2003 9:34:24 PM | |
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diamondsman Ideal Rock Total Posts: 626 Last Post: 12/3/2009 Member Since: 11/11/2002 |
hi, you keep on avoiding the last sentence on the thread, and you never mentioned it on any of your "articles"!let me remind you"And their website isn't very helpful. I feel embarrassed to even call them only to have them laugh at me for asking for such a puny diamond." I don't appreciate you bashing me and my integrity as I don't even know you and don't care to,I have been in the diamond business for 30 years and have the greatest reputaion and made a nice living without your silly comments!! I only gave him another alternative and did not mention my website, And I really don't have the time nor the desire to go in and look at all your comments on every thread that you have written ,as I am sure I will find many of your wording that i can twist and bash you also, but this is all kids play!! I must have threatened your livelyhood in some way for you to go about things the way you did,I guess until we got into this forum you were the only voice heard on this forum and now that there is another few voices on here it does not suit you, well get used to it!! we are all here to inform consumers to get the best value for their dollar! I have had many people call on me and thanked for my comments, and have purchased just on my opinion over the net. also your comment about sales tax is the same as what I have said ,you just like to twist it to make it sound your way!you wrote"This tax is known as a "use tax" and is designed primarily to allow states to continue to receive their tax revenue on any item purchased from within its borders" that means that if they are not in their borders they will not pay the tax.and that is exactly what i said but you like to twist things.you also write (not yet) we are talking about now !! not what will happen in a year or six months from now. so please dont lecture me as i have been in this business just as long or maybe longer than you made a nice living ,very reputable ,honest and will not steer anyone wrong even if it means loosing a sale!! This will be the last time I will answer your reply. sorry all but some people like to make a big deal out of nothing,I dinot see the gentelmen that started this thread getting upset with our comments ,so why is Tim optimized getting all upset diamondmsman
Diamondsman |
| Posted: 1/9/2003 9:34:24 PM | |
| P: 1/9/2003 10:17:07 PM | |
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Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 28,533 Last Post: 2/9/2010 Member Since: 10/30/2002 |
Tri--me personally..I can help myself. How? By taking the information that I learned here from ALL the posts I have read, good and bad, and culling out what I need to know..discarding the rest. I can separate the marketing from reality..maybe more easily than some since I do internet marketing for a living. I'm not a vendor, so my purpose here on this forum is to help other people who might have some questions that I can help answer. I'm not an expert, far from it, but in my research I have learned alot and would love to pass it on. Sure the vendors are here to sell but there are also some that are very helpful as well. You're going to get good eggs and bad eggs in the basket. Why do you hang out here? To learn? To help? Thats what most of us are here for. The rest...well they don't really matter do they?
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| Posted: 1/9/2003 10:17:07 PM | |
| P: 1/9/2003 10:29:13 PM | |
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diamondsman Ideal Rock Total Posts: 626 Last Post: 12/3/2009 Member Since: 11/11/2002 |
I agree with you mara, I think that part of teaching the consumer is also to get the right stone for the right price! an educted consumer is one who gets the best value for their dollar. regards diamondmsman
Diamondsman |
| Posted: 1/9/2003 10:29:13 PM | |
| P: 1/10/2003 4:53:12 AM | |
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optimized Cut Rock Total Posts: 306 Last Post: 11/1/2003 Member Since: 12/28/2002 |
Oh well, I guess since Pherlee's question has actually been answered now, there's no reason to not comment some more on Diamondsman and my disagreement. This one may get even longer than my previous posts. Maybe a "You must be at least this tall to ride on this attraction" sign is in order. :) Mara, I have no defense for the "mountain out of a molehill" comment. I do sort of get worked up sometimes about what I see as some folks' tendency to post certain comments to threads for what I see as less than noble reasons, and sometimes that just boils over unexpectedly. I think this "condition" of mine is the result of having seen it happen so frequently that sometimes it just gets me going, and a tenacious streak that causes me to never give up when I think I'm right about something. As it turns out, I tend to write a lot when I get on a roll (could you tell??? :)), so that combination of factors often just causes my typing fingers to get away from me, sometimes with bewildering results. Unfortunately for some, I'm still not done yet since I have to reply to the latest comments from Diamondsman, which IMO are much more inflammatory than anything I've said to or about him thus far. His tone will result in a reciprocal tone from me, I fear. I'm sorry if I turned this thread upside-down for the casual browser, but I still stand by everything I've said (and everything I'm about to). I also agree with you that there is a gray area in the forums as concerns what is and isn't appropriate to post, but as fate would have it, Leonid has made it clear in his post on this thread that he feels the vendor comments were inappropriate as well. Since this is "his house," as you very eloquently put it, I'd say his opinion is the last word on that issue, so just about everything I've written since then has been to rebut Diamondsman's insistent protestations of innocence. Diamondsman, You may feel free to not reply to my comments. If you'd have been silent on this thread in the first place, I wouldn't have commented at all. However, your most recent posts directed at me fairly demand rebuttal, and I'm fully capable of defending my position, so here we go again... "you keep on avoiding the last sentence on the thread, and you never mentioned it on any of your "articles"!let me remind you..." Rather than excerpt one line of Pherlee's original post, let's just look at it within the context of the question itself: "Pardon my ignorance but does Harry Winston carry any engagement rings around the range of 1 carat, VS1, color F? All I hear from that place are 3 carat diamond rings over $60K. And their website isn't very helpful. I feel embarrassed to even call them only to have them laugh at me for asking for such a puny diamond." Now, his comments about their website not being very helpful and feeling embarrassed about calling was a direct explanation of why he hadn't been able to get the answer himself to the question he was actually asking for help with from the pricescope readers. Talk about trying to twist the meaning of a post! The question he asked was "...does Harry Winston carry any engagement rings around the range of 1 carat, VS1, color F?" You can tell that's the question portion of the post by that funny little squiggly bit of punctuation called a "question mark" at the end of it. Everything after that was expository (meant to explain why he was asking the question), and to my way of thinking certainly wasn't an invitation to offer information about anything other than Harry Winston merchandise. "I don't appreciate you bashing me and my integrity as I don't even know you and don't care to,I have been in the diamond business for 30 years and have the greatest reputaion and made a nice living without your silly comments!!" Actually, nothing in my posts actually does anything remotely like "bashing" you or your integrity as a diamond dealer. All I was actually saying was that I felt you had set a pattern of self-promotion in the forums that undermined your claims that you innocently just try to help on the forums without any self-interest whatsoever. Your integrity as a diamond dealer isn't really at issue since I have said absolutely nothing about your business, good or bad. I do wonder why you would post comments about your site in the third-person, but I never drew any conclusions in my comments about that. "I only gave him another alternative and did not mention my website," He didn't ask for an alternative to Harry Winston. "And I really don't have the time nor the desire to go in and look at all your comments on every thread that you have written ,as I am sure I will find many of your wording that i can twist and bash you also, but this is all kids play!!" I wish you would take up that challenge, as I am pretty confident I will not be exposed as a hypocrite on this. I've given endorsements to diamond dealers on the forums, but they have always been in reply to a user's direct request for suggestions or endorsements, so it was absolutely relevant to the question. As far as the kid's play part, you may be right at this point. I must admit that I'm enjoying defending my position, especially since I've yet to see any point made other than Mara's "mountain out of a molehill" comment that makes me feel at all like I'm not completely justified. "I must have threatened your livelyhood in some way for you to go about things the way you did," As I stated in the "disclaimer" in my first post on this thread, I am not in the industry and derive no income from it. Whatever you say in the forums doesn't threaten my livelihood, but IMO some of the comments from some of the vendors cumulatively threaten the forums themselves. My previous posts describe why I feel some of these comments are threats to RockyTalk, so I won't rehash them here. "I guess until we got into this forum you were the only voice heard on this forum and now that there is another few voices on here it does not suit you, well get used to it!!" Everybody who has posted to this thread, with the exception of Pherlee himself, has been a member of the forums for longer than I, so no, I've never been "the only voice heard on this forum." I have certainly been a pretty active contributor to the forums since I joined, but I have always just been one among many. I've always welcomed comments from all participants with the exception of comments that I see as unsolicited promotion of diamond dealers, whether they be from the dealers themselves or from others. "we are all here to inform consumers to get the best value for their dollar!" I would contend that the spirit of the boards is to participate in a community of diamond enthusiasts and to help people with questions get the answers to those questions. This thread was started by someone who wasn't necessarily looking for "the best value for their dollar," so why are some people automatically steering him in a different direction? I like Pepsi. If I ask a question about a Pepsi product, I don't want someone to say "you should buy the generic store-brand soft drinks and save some money." I want the answer to the question I asked about Pepsi products! Similarly, many people have a liking for Cartier, Tiffany, Harry Winston, or any number of other upscale jewelers. If they ask specific questions about what sorts of products are carried by one of these jewelers, why would anyone presume to tell them to look at something else, and by extension essentially criticize their choice of jeweler? If I had the money, I very likely would have considered one of these jewelers too, as there is definitely and inarguably some cachet to be enjoyed when owning one of these pieces. These brands have a higher resale value than other (otherwise comparable) items for just that reason. "also your comment about sales tax is the same as what I have said ,you just like to twist it to make it sound your way!you wrote"This tax is known as a "use tax" and is designed primarily to allow states to continue to receive their tax revenue on any item purchased from within its borders" that means that if they are not in their borders they will not pay the tax.and that is exactly what i said but you like to twist things.you also write (not yet) we are talking about now !! not what will happen in a year or six months from now." FINALLY! You've actually pointed out something I wrote that actually could be construed as inaccurate! The statement technically isn't inaccurate, but a rather clumsy wording on my part makes me see how it could easily be construed that way. Let me clarify the statement: "This tax is known as a 'use tax' and is designed primarily to allow states to continue to receive their tax revenue on any item purchased from within its borders," was meant to convey the idea that the transaction occurred within the state's borders (the word "from" in the sentence could make it seem like the item purchased is within the state, which would be a normal sales tax issue). The point is, if you are an Internet shopper and the state in which you live has a sales tax in place, you are still responsible to pay taxes on purchases made over the Internet. This tax is called a "use tax," and it is in existence now and has been for longer than there's been an Internet to flout it on. An "so please dont lecture me..." I had never intended to "lecture" anybody, but I fully realize that when posts get as long as mine sometimes do, the risk of being perceived that way gets pretty big. As I said at the beginning of this post, sometimes I do get riled up, and when that happens I sometimes start typing furiously with unpredictable results. I regret that this has gotten so out of hand, but I have always had a "never give up if you think you're right" attitude, and this thread has really brought that side of my personality out. It's also worth noting that if you didn't consistently stick to a position that I see as untenable, this all would have gone away already. "i have been in this business just as long or maybe longer than you made a nice living ,very reputable ,honest and will not steer anyone wrong even if it means loosing a sale!!" Since I'm not "in this business" at all, you no doubt have been in it longer. I also have no reason to believe that you aren't reputable and honest. I've never questioned whether you were an honest businessman since I have no knowledge of your professional ethics or integrity. I only commented that it is my opinion that you sometimes make inappropriate off-topic comments to users' questions. I never suggested that you would "steer anyone wrong," but on the other hand, in this thread you certainly didn't do anything to actually answer the poster's question, so you didn't exactly steer him right either. "This will be the last time I will answer your reply." As I stated at the beginning, that's your prerogative. "sorry all but some people like to make a big deal out of nothing,I dinot see the gentelmen that started this thread getting upset with our comments ,so why is Tim optimized getting all upset" I would ask you to please not presume to apologize for my behavior. I truly am surprised at how big this issue got, but while I certainly bear a responsibility for bringing this issue into the forefront of the thread, let's not forget that you and DiamondOptics are the folks who originally posted completely off-topic comments (that, I might remind you, even resulted in an admonishment from the moderator). Pherlee indeed didn't complain about the course this thread has taken, but then again in all likelihood he hasn't seen folks post off-topic promotional comments time and time again in the forums, to the point where he finds it excruciating. Give him a few months of reading the sorts of comments that disregard the thread originator's question for the sake of promoting the Internet as a diamond market, and he might be the same as me. It would be unfortunate, but it could happen. :) I've explained why I take this so seriously a few times now, and I believe the reasons for my stance are sound. If the Pricescope forums become just a big message board where people ask questions about diamonds and just receive veiled sales pitches or get shoved toward other places on the Internet, how long will people continue to post those questions? Granted, I have no vested interest in seeing the forum continue to be a useful and fun place to actually learn about diamonds and gemology, but as long as I still think there's a chance to keep the forums somewhat informative and "commercial free," I may keep doing what I do. Once again, I'd like to say that I regret the way this thread turned out. I knew when I posted my first comment in this thread that I would likely hear protests from the vendors I cited, but I really didn't think it would get this big. If no more comments directed to me are forthcoming I will drop the topic, but I will do so with full confidence that my position is consistent with the spirit of the RockyTalk forums, and that I was right to feel the way I do about the first two replies to Pherlee's question. Nothing anybody has said has really convinced me (or anybody, judging by the lack of vocalized support for the vendors involved) that my original take on the issue was incorrect. Except for that astute (but pesky) "mountain out of a molehill" comment, I think I've done a pretty decent job of defending my position. -Tim <[ Fade to black >] "Economy of words has never been my strong suit" |
| Posted: 1/10/2003 4:53:12 AM | |
| P: 1/14/2003 11:10:26 AM | |
maddogcredit Rough Rock Total Posts: 5 Last Post: 1/14/2003 Member Since: 1/19/2002 |
I bought a 1.5 oval with .25 each side stones at Harry Winston. They dont carry many at that size and they did have smaller ones as well. Just dont expect them to show 50+ in your range. BTW, they are (generally) very nice people there. If someone is snobbish (and some are), just move on to the next salesperson. I felt the same way at first. |
| Posted: 1/14/2003 11:10:26 AM | |
| P: 11/9/2004 2:29:03 PM | |
Evie75 Cut Rock Total Posts: 150 Last Post: 8/25/2006 Member Since: 11/9/2004 |
Hello, I just came across this forum by accident while searching for diamonds, and i just had to register to tell optimized that i love you and think you are HYSTERICAL!!!!! I can read you all day!! oh and a big AMEN to everything you posted!
have a great day! *Dont need anyone else to make me feel alive... you electrify me* |
| Posted: 11/9/2004 2:29:03 PM | |
| P: 11/9/2004 2:48:32 PM | |
strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003 |
Date: 11/9/2004 2:29  3 PMAuthor: Evie75 Hello, I just came across this forum by accident while searching for diamonds, and i just had to register to tell optimized that i love you and think you are HYSTERICAL!!!!! I can read you all day!! oh and a big AMEN to everything you posted! have a great day! ummm hate to break ya heart but optimized hasnt posted on this forum for over a year. Look at the last post date under his name..... ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K |
| Posted: 11/9/2004 2:48:32 PM | |
| P: 11/9/2004 2:53:56 PM | |
|
Evie75 Cut Rock Total Posts: 150 Last Post: 8/25/2006 Member Since: 11/9/2004 |
Sorry! My mistake
*Dont need anyone else to make me feel alive... you electrify me* |
| Posted: 11/9/2004 2:53:56 PM | |
| P: 11/9/2004 7:51:26 PM | |
Basset Hound Cut Rock Total Posts: 304 Last Post: 3/27/2007 Member Since: 1/29/2004 |
Buying from Winston, Tiffany, Caldwell, ect. or buying from a small b&m or internet dealer is like flying on a plane. You can ride first class or coach, but you still get to the same place at the same time. Other people have or can get the same thing the big guys got. It is a free country, if you want to spend your money at Winston please do so, but if you want to buy the same thing and have enough money left over to go on a around the world cruise on the QE2, then buy somplace else. |
| Posted: 11/9/2004 7:51:26 PM | |
| P: 11/9/2004 10:01:05 PM | |
Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,819 Last Post: 2/9/2010 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
here can be some other benefits from travelling first class.
The people who sit with you are different. Can be good, can be bad, but if you are in business there can be more opportunities sitting in Frist :) Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 11/9/2004 10:01:05 PM | |
| P: 11/10/2004 8:49:22 AM | |
|
Basset Hound Cut Rock Total Posts: 304 Last Post: 3/27/2007 Member Since: 1/29/2004 |
Like a salad and champaine? Not to mention the exclusive usage of the 1st class Loo. I know they are fine stores that sell a magnificent product and also helps on resale to have there name in it. But I just can not see wasting that much more money on the same product. |
| Posted: 11/10/2004 8:49:22 AM | |
| P: 11/10/2004 9:25:16 AM | |
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
Date: 11/10/2004 8:49:22 AM Author: Like a salad and champaine? Hm.... Say these guys in the photo are shopping for an e-ring... just to fill in for the missing caption. Would you rate the image as "romantic" ?  Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 11/10/2004 9:25:16 AM | |
| P: 11/10/2004 9:38:32 AM | |
|
Basset Hound Cut Rock Total Posts: 304 Last Post: 3/27/2007 Member Since: 1/29/2004 |
No. Just under exposed. |
| Posted: 11/10/2004 9:38:32 AM | |
| P: 11/10/2004 9:47:54 AM | |
|
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
Date: 11/10/2004 9:38:32 AM Author: HAMMER No. Just under exposed. Yeah... shopping the net is not much of a romance icon. Hary Winston jewelry is Sorry for the photo - it's a random find (Corbis) that went through havy post-processing to hide the two faces.
Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 11/10/2004 9:47:54 AM | |
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Well didnt you just make me look stupid!.......... 