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Appraisals Differ Substantially

P: 12/30/2005 7:31:04 PM
MellowCat Rough Rock Total Posts: 38 Last Post: 1/11/2006 Member Since: 12/17/2005	I already posted about my ring on this site, but now I have a weird appraisal situation. Here is a quick background. Had a diamond solitaire ring of my deceased mother's. Went to jeweler to have the diamond removed and set in a whole new mounting, and purchased from that jeweler 2 anniversary bands to go with it. The jeweler threw in a free insurance-replacement appraisal (what they called it), but their computers were down for about 3 weeks so couldn't complete the appraisal timely; so in the meantime, I took it to an independent appraiser. I've had the indie appraisal for a few weeks, but I just got the free appraisal from the jeweler today. Check it out... Both appraisals were for the purpose of insurance replacement. The jeweler initially weighed the stone at 1.43 carats. The indy appraiser accepted that weight since the stone was already in its new mounting. The center stone was weighed before the jeweler re-mounted it, but both appraisals were done after the new mounting was purchased. The indepenent ring appraisal I rec'd was $3911.25 higher than the free one given by jeweler that sold me the setting only (remember, the central diamond was "an heirloom," not purchased.) The color grade was the same on both appraisals. The clarity rating was VS1 by the indie but SI2 by the jeweler! *my best Blue Collar Voice>>> That's just crazy right there. But Wait, There's More! The jeweler's appraisal has SI-1 in the main paragraph of the report and SI-2 in the summary at the bottom of the report. Whoa, Nelly. The jeweler's appraisal contains no measurements of any kind, nor any plotting of inclusions, or even an explanation of what inclusions it has. It is a one-pager that basically has 2 photos of the ring and one paragaph with a description of ring, the stone count, weight, color and clarity grade. The indie appraisal is 10 pages long. Incidentally, I have been unable to spot the inclusions plotted by the indie appraiser with up to 36X magnification, FWIW. I know they're in there, I just can't find them! Naturally, I trust the indie appraisal because the appraisal is comprehensive plus I chose him based upon his independency (doesn't buy or sell jewelry), the lab equipment he possesses and more importantly, his credentials. Of course I want the ring to be the "better" one , but how on earth can there be a discrepancy of this magnitude between the two appraisals! And not even the same clarity grading on the same report. Variances are to be expected, but dayum. The jeweler's credentials are unknown. I was simply told they would give me an insurance-replacement appraisal after setting the ring, so why not? Glad I didn't pay for it because I can't see how the jeweler's appraisal contains enough information even for a valid insurance replacement value. Me thinks their new computer is jacked up or something. What do you folks make of this? I'm sure others could benefit from any comments, which are appreciated.
Posted: 12/30/2005 7:31:04 PM

There are 9 replies to this message. There are 9 replies on this page.

P: 12/30/2005 7:42:50 PM
RockDoc Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,509 Last Post: 6/17/2007 Member Since: 8/16/2000	Dear Mellow While it is a reasonable assumption for you to rely on the monetary aspect of th reports rendered, it really has a limited meaning when the insurance type is for a replacement type poicy. Did the jeweler disclose that he ha an interest in the report? Even though he didn't sell the stone, I am assuming he created a mounting for it (separate from the rings you did purchase from him) . Does the report that the jeweler rendered cover all the items ( i.e. the two :spacer rings and the diamond engagement ring too). If he is the seller of any part of the item his interest should be disclosed. All that the replacement value has is that it sets the ultimate limit of what the insurance company will pay in the event you have a claim. You do need to tell us the valuation amounts reported by each "appraiser". It is impossible to tell how much the value is out of line with out the value they have reported. Example : if one appraised it for $ 100,000. the the other $ 3900.00 less that wouldn't be serious. But, if one says 15,000 and the other is for $ 3911 less it is more "serious". Rockdoc Bill Leiberum 1948-2007 Thanks for everything and Rest In Peace,Bill.
Posted: 12/30/2005 7:42:50 PM

P: 12/30/2005 9:03:49 PM
MellowCat Rough Rock Total Posts: 38 Last Post: 1/11/2006 Member Since: 12/17/2005	Date: 12/30/2005 7:42:50 PM Author: RockDoc Dear Mellow While it is a reasonable assumption for you to rely on the monetary aspect of th reports rendered, it really has a limited meaning when the insurance type is for a replacement type poicy. Did the jeweler disclose that he ha an interest in the report? Even though he didn't sell the stone, I am assuming he created a mounting for it (separate from the rings you did purchase from him) . Does the report that the jeweler rendered cover all the items ( i.e. the two :spacer rings and the diamond engagement ring too). If he is the seller of any part of the item his interest should be disclosed. All that the replacement value has is that it sets the ultimate limit of what the insurance company will pay in the event you have a claim. You do need to tell us the valuation amounts reported by each 'appraiser'. It is impossible to tell how much the value is out of line with out the value they have reported. Example : if one appraised it for $ 100,000. the the other $ 3900.00 less that wouldn't be serious. But, if one says 15,000 and the other is for $ 3911 less it is more 'serious'. Rockdoc Hmmmm. I would think that if I am insuring and paying premiums based on the appraised value, the monetary aspect would have more than a "limited meaning." (I do understand the insurance company wouldn't "cut me a check" or whatever for same dollar figure of the appraisal. But "like quality" replacement, now that is an issue.) The jeweler's appraisal does not say they have an interest in or that they sold me the mounting. It says "This article is a registered and traceable piece of jewelry and if lost or stolen, John Doe Jewelers will make this information available to all necessary parties in order to expedite recovery of the article." and "This appraisal tells you the approx. price at which you could replace the foregoing articles w/comparable merchandise at a retail jeweler." It does make note of all of the ring, including the bands I purchased from them, the solitaire and the channel set stones in the bands. Naturally, the discrepancy is going to be relative. I'm not confortable divulging the "worth" of my jewelry on a public forum (or to anyone else for that matter except my husband) but your comment above confirms that the valuation discrepancy is in the "serious" range. It still doesn't make sense and I'm surprised that you didn't comment on the fact that the clarity grades are so very different. If I lost this diamond, I would not be happy with a SI-1 or SI-2 replacement, I can tell you that. And since the jewelers report contains two different clarity gratings within the same report, it's even more suspicious/puzzling. Thanks for your reply.
Posted: 12/30/2005 9:03:49 PM

P: 12/30/2005 9:59:17 PM
Richard Sherwood Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,879 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 9/25/2002	My guess is that the independent appraiser is a gemologist, while the jeweler is not. Consequently I would tend to trust the grading and valuation of the independent appraiser over that of the jeweler. The only reason I say this is because you mentioned "the jeweler's credentials are unknown". A gemologist will always state that he is, after his signature. Diamond grading is a fine art, requiring proper equipment, training and experience. A non-gemologist is not properly trained in this respect, no matter how many years he has been a jeweler. Rich, Independent GG Appraiser Sarasota Gemological Laboratory
Posted: 12/30/2005 9:59:17 PM

P: 12/30/2005 10:10:29 PM
crafftygrrl Cut Rock Total Posts: 463 Last Post: 4/23/2006 Member Since: 2/14/2005	Mellowcat, Insurance appraisals can be daunting and confusing. What you need to have the appraisal state in clear language is the specifics of the piece of jewelry in as much detail as possible--and with a realistic replacement cost. I was in a relatively similar situation as yours when I had my e-ring re-set. On major jewelry purchases, I frequently get an independent appraisal. Jeweler who reset my ring appraised it for close to $24K. Jeweler also upped the color of my stone one grade. Indie appraiser appraised the ring at $15K. He also got the clarity and color correct (the stone had been appraised a couple of times previously). I brought up the diverging appraisal values with my Indie appraiser. He said the other one was a "feel good appraisal." What you really want is the correct documentation and fair market replacement value. not necessarily the highest dollar amount. You shouldn't pay for more insurance than you need!!! I hope this helps.
Posted: 12/30/2005 10:10:29 PM

P: 12/30/2005 10:22:44 PM
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003	Had to take it point by point... And aside price, it seems that the format&substance of the reports ( 2 page versus 10) and the clarity grade are left in the air. The difference of clarity grades may explain the price difference - from VS1 to Si1-2 there's a some jump. To sum up: the appraise has seen the stone set, called it VS1 and evaluated it at ~4k more than the jeweler has, who could see the stone out of the setting and called it SI1 (or Si2). Whether the reports are 2 page long or ten page long may have something to do with the store's policy. The minimum accepted by insurers may not require 10 pages (even if the level of detail is useful for you, just in case the policy gets to be used). So... the jeweler may have just filled in those minimal requirements. For the appraiser this wasn't just a mere freebie on top of another sale. Could it be the case that observing the diamond unset produced more accurate grading? Perhaps... All could be a mistake. And the typo (turning SI1 into SI2 on the report) can't sound good. This sorry makes automatic grading all that more appealing Am I wrong to say this calls for... a third opinion Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian]
Posted: 12/30/2005 10:22:44 PM

P: 12/30/2005 10:22:51 PM
Modified Brilliant Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,148 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 3/24/2005	Date: 12/30/2005 10:10:29 PM Author: crafftygrrl Mellowcat, Insurance appraisals can be daunting and confusing. What you need to have the appraisal state in clear language is the specifics of the piece of jewelry in as much detail as possible--and with a realistic replacement cost. I was in a relatively similar situation as yours when I had my e-ring re-set. On major jewelry purchases, I frequently get an independent appraisal. Jeweler who reset my ring appraised it for close to $24K. Jeweler also upped the color of my stone one grade. Indie appraiser appraised the ring at $15K. He also got the clarity and color correct (the stone had been appraised a couple of times previously). I brought up the diverging appraisal values with my Indie appraiser. He said the other one was a 'feel good appraisal.' What you really want is the correct documentation and fair market replacement value. not necessarily the highest dollar amount. You shouldn't pay for more insurance than you need!!! I hope this helps. Hi crafftygrrl, Just to clarify for Mellowcat...fair market value is very different than retail replacement value which is most suitable for insurance purposes. I agree that there is no reason to over-insure. It serves no useful purpose. www.metrojewelryappraisers.com Jeff Averbook, G.G. Graduate Gemologist since 1986. Member NAJA. Life Member AIN.
Posted: 12/30/2005 10:22:51 PM

P: 12/31/2005 11:01:47 AM
MellowCat Rough Rock Total Posts: 38 Last Post: 1/11/2006 Member Since: 12/17/2005	To sum up: the appraise has seen the stone set, called it VS1 and evaluated it at ~4k more than the jeweler has, who could see the stone out of the setting and called it SI1 (or Si2). *The jeweler did not appraise the ring until after* it was mounted. They only weighed the stone prior to mounting it. I had to take the finished ring back to the jeweler get the appraisal. Am I wrong to say this calls for... a third opinion **No. I'm pondering that myself.
Posted: 12/31/2005 11:01:47 AM

P: 12/31/2005 11:10:33 AM
MellowCat Rough Rock Total Posts: 38 Last Post: 1/11/2006 Member Since: 12/17/2005	Date: 12/30/2005 10:10:29 PM Author: crafftygrrl Mellowcat, Insurance appraisals can be daunting and confusing. What you need to have the appraisal state in clear language is the specifics of the piece of jewelry in as much detail as possible--and with a realistic replacement cost. I was in a relatively similar situation as yours when I had my e-ring re-set. On major jewelry purchases, I frequently get an independent appraisal. Jeweler who reset my ring appraised it for close to $24K. Jeweler also upped the color of my stone one grade. Indie appraiser appraised the ring at $15K. He also got the clarity and color correct (the stone had been appraised a couple of times previously). I brought up the diverging appraisal values with my Indie appraiser. He said the other one was a 'feel good appraisal.' What you really want is the correct documentation and fair market replacement value. not necessarily the highest dollar amount. You shouldn't pay for more insurance than you need!!! I hope this helps. Craffty, Wow, that's quite a jump in value for sure. I absolutely agree with not paying unnecessary insurance premiums. The indie jeweler stated emphatically he would not inflate the value for that very reason. I told him it certainly wouldn't be doing me a favor to do so. The jeweler stated they don't inflate their appraisals either. I can't imagine why anybody would want accept an inaccurate appraisal just to "feel good" about their piece. Kind of defeats the purpose, ya know?
Posted: 12/31/2005 11:10:33 AM

P: 12/31/2005 11:18:25 AM
MellowCat Rough Rock Total Posts: 38 Last Post: 1/11/2006 Member Since: 12/17/2005	Date: 12/30/2005 9:59:17 PM Author: Richard Sherwood My guess is that the independent appraiser is a gemologist, while the jeweler is not. Consequently I would tend to trust the grading and valuation of the independent appraiser over that of the jeweler. The only reason I say this is because you mentioned 'the jeweler's credentials are unknown'. A gemologist will always state that he is, after his signature. Diamond grading is a fine art, requiring proper equipment, training and experience. A non-gemologist is not properly trained in this respect, no matter how many years he has been a jeweler. You are correct. I chose the indie appraiser based upon the great advice given here, and let me tell you, I live near Big D, and even in these parts I had a hard time finding an indie appraiser with the credentials and lab equipment that satisfied me. The rumor is true, there's not that many of you out there.
Posted: 12/31/2005 11:18:25 AM

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