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Need DiamCalc and GemAdvisor Results

P: 11/8/2005 12:49:49 PM
Quincy Rough Rock Total Posts: 44 Last Post: 1/10/2006 Member Since: 7/9/2005	Hi, Can a fellow PSer help me input these specs into the their software and let me know what it says.. GIA Specs: Round Brilliant 1.61 Ct F VS1 Total Depth: 60.6 Table Size: 56 Fluorenscence: None Girdle Thickness: Med. Faceted Polish: Very Good Symetry: Excellent Sarin Report Specs: 1.617 Ct Diameter (mm): 7.63 Total Depth: 60.5% Crown Angle: 35.0 Crown Height: 15.3% Pavil Angle: 40.7 Pavil Depth: 42.9% Culet: 0.4% Table Size: 56.1% Girdle Thickness: 1.5% Medium Proportion: 0 Measurements: 7.62-7.64 x 4.62mm Thanks for all your help!
Posted: 11/8/2005 12:49:49 PM

There are 12 replies to this message. There are 12 replies on this page.

P: 11/8/2005 2:30:03 PM
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003	GemAdviser is a free viewer for DiamCalc ... same images. These would not be able to provide any better information than the Cut Adviser in this case though, because that is what information is given. To get a 'realistic' image of the stone you'd need the actual coordinates of every facet, not just their average as the Sarin report provides. Without this, the image generated by DiamCalc has perfect symmetry and this cannot be true for the stone in person. Some very precisely cut ones look that way - but this is not the norm by all means. The symmetry grade on lab reports does not refer to this sort of 'symmetry' (see an explanation for this here). Worse still, there's no clue in the averaged Sarin data about minor facets either - so symmetry is not the only thing left to the imagination Sarin numbers are good to evaluate some aspects of quality (what the Cut Adviser deal with), but not to reconstruct a diamond's look. There are different kinds of Sarin report - a full report can be imported into DiamCalc in the form of a SRN file and gives some legitimate visual approximation of the read thing. Perhaps there is better in terms of diamond measurements - Sarin is not the only device around and I don't really know how much better others are. Anyway, given the numbers you already have, the next most practical step might be not getting a full Sarin report (unless you have it already and can e-mail me the file) but take a look at the diamond. The finer the detail (facet alignment, etc), the less precise the measurements. It still sounds safer to have images of the real thing or even better, look at it or have an expert do some evaluation of the cut quality stone in hand. The seller could provide such expert opinion or an independent appraiser can - depending on whom you want to trust. Hope this makes sense Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian]
Posted: 11/8/2005 2:30:03 PM

P: 11/8/2005 2:47:31 PM
Quincy Rough Rock Total Posts: 44 Last Post: 1/10/2006 Member Since: 7/9/2005	Hi I have this report that I was given w/ all the top down specs. Would that help? If so, I can scan and e-mail it to you. I already done the Holloway Cut Advisor, I just wanted to see what the DiamCalc/Gem Advisor will say about this rock. Also, why is it when I searched for those that requested a diamcalc result, all they provided were the same categories as I? For example: http://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=5104&forumID=3&catID=&search=1&searchstring= I don't mind just what the results say if my information isn't sufficient. Also, I have already seen the stone in person through a loupe, a idealscope and the stone looks fantastic.
Posted: 11/8/2005 2:47:31 PM

P: 11/9/2005 2:26:02 AM
Quincy Rough Rock Total Posts: 44 Last Post: 1/10/2006 Member Since: 7/9/2005	Bump back up...
Posted: 11/9/2005 2:26:02 AM

P: 11/9/2005 3:22:13 AM
Serg Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,515 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 3/22/2002	Quincy, It is not funny game more. You can find similar GA file here: http://www.gemology.ru/octonus/english/gemreader/is/index.htm Sergey Sivovolenko CEO OctoNus
Posted: 11/9/2005 3:22:13 AM

P: 11/9/2005 3:34:52 AM
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003	Date: 11/8/2005 2:47:31 PM Author: Quincy Also, why is it when I searched for those that requested a diamcalc result, all they provided were the same categories as I? That's a pretty interesting thread! Thanks for the link As much as I can tell, Jonathan had built two hypothetical views of the diamond filling in at random the missing details. Such a 'guesstimate' would not be anywhere as true to nature as your seeing the diamond & all. Even there, the IS image doesn't look much like any of the DiamCalc images - well, it is not a very clear IS shot anyway... About the extra Sarin data: I don't know how to enter them manually. DiamCalc could import a Sarin file (srn format) if there is one. Otherwise, I could only do at most as much as it was done on that thread. Besides, I am not sure what DC 'result' could add to the information you already have. The software does generate a cut quality score, but it isn't too popular around here. If anything, I could check how good id DC at showing off diamonds compared to your visual experience. Nothing it could do can add to your insight, IMO. The pictures look cute compared to a HCA score, but I am not sure they may deliver more information than it was put in them. In particular, I don't want to create the illusion that this program is good at filling in the gaps of measurement data provided along with diamonds. It is all to easy to take depth & table numbers, say, fit everything else to look as great as it ever could and pretend 'this is what your diamond will look like'. I wish that doesn't happen to DiamCalc. This is the reason why I am reluctant to post models made with insufficient data. Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian]
Posted: 11/9/2005 3:34:52 AM

P: 11/9/2005 3:42:38 AM
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003	Date: 11/9/2005 3:22:13 AM Author: Serg You can find similar GA file here ... Bauhaus wallpaper ? Thanks ! Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian]
Posted: 11/9/2005 3:42:38 AM

P: 11/9/2005 8:04:44 AM
Serg Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,515 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 3/22/2002	live wallpaper http://www.cutstudy.com/cut/english/dc/index2.htm Sergey Sivovolenko CEO OctoNus
Posted: 11/9/2005 8:04:44 AM

P: 11/9/2005 11:32:47 AM
Rhino Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,865 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 3/29/2001	Nice link Serg! Hi Quincy, Valeria is correct in what she's saying. There are many variables missing. Basic Sarin information gives some good information about a diamond but not nearly enough to accurately ascertain how the diamond may actually appear as there are the details of 40 other facets that come to play. I have however constructed a graphic using the angles and measurements you've provided and altered one set of facets on the pavilion not taken into account with the data you've provided. The facets I've altered are called the "lower half" or "lower girdle" facets and I've altered them in increments of 5% in depth to show you how just altering these can impact the appearance. The average slope angles you've provided do look to be very good so you are certainly off to a good start. As Valeria has suggested your eyes will now come into play in helping you make the decision but you could have a stone that falls into (or close to) one of these scenarios. Hope this helps. Kind regards, Rhino Good Old Gold
Posted: 11/9/2005 11:32:47 AM

P: 11/9/2005 12:22:03 PM
Regular Guy Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,317 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 7/7/2004	Rhino, Can you add interpretation to your analysis? Would any of the 4 options you presented increase your desire for the diamond? Would any of these variations represent a "no go" option? Specifically, can an understanding that the diamond may appear in any of these 4 ways help the writer's decision making process? I know he was asking for the use of DC, nevertheless. Thanks. Ira (Ruffles have Ridges) Z. ____________ If you're looking for diamond shopping tips...this (along with this update) might do the trick! however...caution: known to have been regarded as armed and dangerous
Posted: 11/9/2005 12:22:03 PM

P: 11/9/2005 6:41:17 PM
Quincy Rough Rock Total Posts: 44 Last Post: 1/10/2006 Member Since: 7/9/2005	Thanks for all the inputs. Rhino, can you explain more in regards to those 4 possible pics you've posted.
Posted: 11/9/2005 6:41:17 PM

P: 11/10/2005 7:00:03 AM
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003	Date: 11/9/2005 6:41:17 PM Author: Quincy Thanks for all the inputs. Rhino, can you explain more in regards to those 4 possible pics you've posted. In the meantime... I think those are different looks of diamonds that all have the proportions you gave. Other details not told by the numbers make the difference (those 'lower girdle facets' = 'lgf' Jonathan mentions). These make a difference, although perhaps it takes a different magnitude of variation in these minor facets as they are called to actually get a marked visual impact: it is not about fractions of a % as for crown and pavilion depth, but perhaps %-10% or so on reasonably sized diamonds (under 5 cts? say...). I am just talking for myself here, obviously. If someone points out the difference, perhaps less than 5% would show and looking analytically at diamonds side by side it would too. Perhaps you would disagree, However, to me, the difference between these is not as much of quality (i.e. something that is always preferred by anyone) as of style. And it must be a good thing to have some choice among these diamonds - perhaps some may find it reassuring that all idea cuts look exactly the same. These are natural gemstones after all, not nuts and bolts. Takara churns vivid H&A because their material can be wasted, diamonds should be a different matter. It's nice to know there is some choice and you can't go wrong either way. At least, this is what the line up of cherries suggests IMO. Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian]
Posted: 11/10/2005 7:00:03 AM

P: 11/10/2005 11:52:42 AM
Rhino Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,865 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 3/29/2001	Hi RG & Quincy, Will try and answer this before I head up to the lab. In answer to your questions. Date: 11/9/2005 12:22:03 PM Author: Regular Guy Rhino, Can you add interpretation to your analysis? Would any of the 4 options you presented increase your desire for the diamond? Increase my personal desire? Yes do have a personal preference amongst these. I almost hate to share it though because I would not want my personal opinion influencing or distracting Quincy for what he may determine is his personal preference. I'll let you know in PM and if Qunicy wants to know I'll share as well but each of these diamonds (all qualifying as ideal) give different appearancres. Some which I would consider pretty radically different. Of course with all the main angles being the same on each of these they all get identical HCA scores. Would any of these variations represent a 'no go' option? With regards to the labs and as far as my research has taken me Ira it appears the lower half (lower girdle) cut off for GIA's system lies at 70% halves and goes up to 85% still qualifying as ideal. So all the stones in the above example would all represent "go" options with GIA's system. In AGS's system it appears their cut offs are at or close to 72% and can go as high as 85% depending on the slope angles. I've found combos where the cut off is less than 85% (closer to 82%) but those were near the outskirts of their ideal range. I still have more playing to do but this is what I've found so far. The 70% in this example may be an AGS no go but I can confirm this when I get to the lab. Specifically, can an understanding that the diamond may appear in any of these 4 ways help the writer's decision making process? I know he was asking for the use of DC, nevertheless. Absolutely Ira. Actually it may do more help if the graphics were shrunk down in size closer to the actual stone. I left them at 200 pixels for ease of seeing the differences. The question Qunicy needs to ask himself at this point is which of these appearances does he prefer most? I'll check back later and answer Quincy's questions. Hope that helps. Kind regards, Jonathan Rhino Good Old Gold
Posted: 11/10/2005 11:52:42 AM

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