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 » RockyTalky
»  » Can we talk about I1s?
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Can we talk about I1s? |
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| P: 10/18/2005 12:56:00 PM | |
recran Rough Rock Total Posts: 83 Last Post: 2/12/2006 Member Since: 4/14/2005 |
I have seen a great I1 on here... And I saw one in real life too. You could see the inclusion when you turned the stone face down. You could only see the inclusion face up when you already knew it was there. I looked and looked and couldn't find it before they flipped the stone over. These stones really impressed me! Other than the tiny visible inclusions, they seem totally clear. And I dig that - I like a really clear stone, but I also LIKE having, like, one visible inclusion (visible only when you know where to look) so I know it's my stone. I haven't been able to find a lot of I1s to look at in real life, but I have seen a couple of I2s and they looked really cloudy in addition to having visible inclusions/carbon. So... what is the actual definition of I1? When shopping on the internet, how can I find an I1 stone that I know only has 1 or 2 really minor visible inclusions and is otherwise very clear? I guess I can ask for the company to email me the picture of the inclusions - but how many reports are they going to be willing to send me at once?! (EGL and GIA reports have the drawings, right?) Reporting for duty, A novice |
| Posted: 10/18/2005 12:56:00 PM | |
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There are 25 replies to this message. There are 25 replies on this page. |
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| P: 10/18/2005 1:25:25 PM | |
belle Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,287 Last Post: 4/3/2008 Member Since: 11/19/2004 |
if we are going to talk about inclusions, we have to consider the lab grading the inclusions. truthfully, i don't mind inclusions but let's face it, there is a reason stones are sent to egl for grading instead of gia or ags. i would not consider an egl graded i1 or lower. many of the ps vendors have actual diamond photos available on their website, so you don't have to ask them to send pics of the inclusions.
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| Posted: 10/18/2005 1:25:25 PM | |
| P: 10/18/2005 1:57:12 PM | |
Wink Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,032 Last Post: 11/17/2009 Member Since: 5/4/2001 |
Mostly you will need to call and talk with a vendor to let him know what you are looking for and find out what he can get for you. Such stones are not always easy to find but they are available. May of the I1's are not cut so well because many of the people who want great cutting are not willing to sacrifice that much clarity on the (in my opinion) mistaken belief that the small inclusion will make the stone look bad. When you can find one of the super ideals that is a nice eye clieanish I1, you will have a true treasure on your hands for a very little money as compared to the same size and color in a VS2 or higher clarity. Wink Wink Jones |
| Posted: 10/18/2005 1:57:12 PM | |
| P: 10/18/2005 2:35:22 PM | |
widget Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,254 Last Post: 12/20/2008 Member Since: 11/12/2004 |
Hi Recran...welcome! I agree that your best bet is to have a good vendor do the looking for you. Sometime ago I purchased a pair of diamond studs for my niece. To get the size I wanted and stay within my budget I got I-1s selected by a good vendor. (In my case it was DBL.) I was astonished...ASTONISHED...at how bright and beautiful they are!!! It's ALL about the cut.... Good luck! widget
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| Posted: 10/18/2005 2:35:22 PM | |
| P: 10/18/2005 3:22:15 PM | |
oldminer Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,964 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 9/4/2000 |
Some I1 diamonds are excellent in value and appearance. Most sacrifice something due to their clarity, but occasionally one finds a stone that really is quite nice. You'll need expert guidance, but if you are patient and a good shopper, you may find one that is right for you.
David S. Atlas |
| Posted: 10/18/2005 3:22:15 PM | |
| P: 10/18/2005 4:10:00 PM | |
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recran Rough Rock Total Posts: 83 Last Post: 2/12/2006 Member Since: 4/14/2005 |
Thanks guys! So... all that being said about finding a good vendor to look for such a stone... How would I go about that? I really haven't been able to find a place in real life where I've been able to look at a good selection of diamonds of the sort I'm looking for (or, often, they have NONE that are even close to what I'm looking for). As I understand it, a lot of the online dealers are posting gems they don't have in their actual possession (which, btw, I think it awesome since you can get the diamond you want through your favorite dealer). Would they be able to tell by looking at the drawings? Or do they have pictures of all the diamonds that just aren't posted online? (I usually come up with "sample photos.") About the gem labs doing the grading - I find it really hard to find anything other than EGL certs for I1s. Any tips on where to check/who to call? Are the "good guys" willing to look for such a stone even if they don't normally list them? (I noticed that WhiteFlash comes up as offering some stones for sale that you can't pull on their website.)
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| Posted: 10/18/2005 4:10:00 PM | |
| P: 10/18/2005 4:16:04 PM | |
JohnQuixote Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,212 Last Post: 5/24/2008 Member Since: 9/9/2004 |
Hi Recran. Just curious, why are you interested in I1s? John |
| Posted: 10/18/2005 4:16:04 PM | |
| P: 10/18/2005 4:29:30 PM | |
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recran Rough Rock Total Posts: 83 Last Post: 2/12/2006 Member Since: 4/14/2005 |
Why else? Getting a bigger rock for less $$! Seriously. I want a BIG diamond, and I'm willing to make some sacrifices in clarity in order to get it. After all the education from lurking on here and then visiting some diamonds around town, I want some tips about how to go about it the right way.
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| Posted: 10/18/2005 4:29:30 PM | |
| P: 10/18/2005 4:34:11 PM | |
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belle Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,287 Last Post: 4/3/2008 Member Since: 11/19/2004 |
recran, i am all for making sacrifices in color and clarity. there is no reason to pay for what you can't see. as wink stated though, i1's are a little tougher to find in a well cut diamond. how important is cut to you?
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| Posted: 10/18/2005 4:34:11 PM | |
| P: 10/18/2005 4:41:08 PM | |
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JohnQuixote Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,212 Last Post: 5/24/2008 Member Since: 9/9/2004 |
Date: 10/18/2005 4:29:30 PM Author: recran Why else? Getting a bigger rock for less $$! Seriously. I want a BIG diamond, and I'm willing to make some sacrifices in clarity in order to get it. After all the education from lurking on here and then visiting some diamonds around town, I want some tips about how to go about it the right way. Ok, fair enough.  Here is the challenge then... Most people seek eye-clean diamonds - or close to eye-clean (as you do). Since shopping online is done sight-unseen, consumer comfort is met when a strong lab like AGS or GIA did the grading and the diamond is VS2 and above: These diamonds are completely eye-clean, with very few exceptions, so vendors acquire them for onsite inventory - and bring them in from suppliers - with great comfort. There are also abundant SI1 and SI2 diamonds graded by those labs that are completely eye-clean. Others are close. Some are not, depending on your definition (a thread on the subject of locating eye-clean diamonds is linked here). Vendors that have SI diamonds in stock can tell you straight up about the cleanliness. Those brought in from suppliers for inspection may (or may not be) as represented in email or phone converations, so everyone must be cautious about encumbering shipping costs for a diamond that may ultimately be rejected by the client. The number of I1-I3 diamonds that may be eye-clean is dramatically fewer than those in the SI category. Working with a vendor who stocks I1 diamonds may be your best bet, as they will be onsite and you can work with someone there who understands your desires and can do all verification in one-step. Otherwise, it will be a longer process of definition, search and scrutiny to locate one that a supplier, vendor and you all define the same way. If you have some time it's certainly an option - and I understand completely the wish to acquire the best size for the $ John |
| Posted: 10/18/2005 4:41:08 PM | |
| P: 10/18/2005 5:20:07 PM | |
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recran Rough Rock Total Posts: 83 Last Post: 2/12/2006 Member Since: 4/14/2005 |
Cut is definitely important - I know it adds to the sparkle, and sparkle is my main priority (well, just barely above size hehe). That said, I actually don't really like the cool cuts that everyone raves about - the H&As or the Leos. I think they're somehow too much. Is that weird? The ideals I've seen (Jared's, for the record) were really cool. On the other hand, I didn't think they were worth the price premium over the "normal" cut stones that I have seen. So... I guess my definition of a great cut differs from that of the diamond experts.  I think I need to see more diamonds...  So... how do I find a diamond seller who actually has I1s? I'm having a hard time finding diamonds that are over 2 carats in this town (Raleigh, NC). I regularly visit Asheville, NC, Charlotte, NC, and Greenville, SC. My other planned trips leading up to my "time to purchase" include San Juan, PR and NYC.
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| Posted: 10/18/2005 5:20:07 PM | |
| P: 10/18/2005 5:22:04 PM | |
noobie Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,318 Last Post: 9/21/2007 Member Since: 3/3/2004 |
Date: 10/18/2005 1:57:12 PM Author: Wink Mostly you will need to call and talk with a vendor to let him know what you are looking for and find out what he can get for you. Such stones are not always easy to find but they are available. May of the I1's are not cut so well because many of the people who want great cutting are not willing to sacrifice that much clarity on the (in my opinion) mistaken belief that the small inclusion will make the stone look bad. When you can find one of the super ideals that is a nice eye clieanish I1, you will have a true treasure on your hands for a very little money as compared to the same size and color in a VS2 or higher clarity. Wink I agree with this and with your reasons to look for an I1. I bought an I1 and have bought VS through SI stones. Finding a great performing I1 involves a bit of luck. I was looking for an SI1, VS stone when I came across the I1, I bought. I asked the vendor in passing how it looked. He said pretty clean. So I had it sent with an SI to an appraiser. I went and looked and picked the I1. It was a great buy and a great stone. Two appraisers, GIA graduates, judged it to an SI stone. That being said, the times I have looked for a clean I1 stone, I have come up empty. I had a lot of time and still came up empty. Part of the challenge, is that they all need to be looked at. Don't expect vendors to search high and low and go through the expense of shipping and time to look at I1 stones to find a one in a thousand. It's not fair to them for the little margin they will make. Keep your eyes open and be patient. Good luck.
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| Posted: 10/18/2005 5:22:04 PM | |
| P: 10/18/2005 5:27:59 PM | |
Regular Guy Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,316 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 7/7/2004 |
Date: 10/18/2005 5:20:07 PM Author: recran So... how do I find a diamond seller who actually has I1s? I'm having a hard time finding diamonds that are over 2 carats in this town (Raleigh, NC). I regularly visit Asheville, NC, Charlotte, NC, and Greenville, SC. My other planned trips leading up to my 'time to purchase' include San Juan, PR and NYC. Did someone say NYC? I just did a little search with the search by cut database here for and I1, and came up with exactly one, and from one of the best vendors on the board. Also, he happens to be just outside of NYC. Sorry did you say anything else about the qualities you're looking for? This is a J, just over a carat, at $3500. Best wishes, Ira (Ruffles have Ridges) Z. |
| Posted: 10/18/2005 5:27:59 PM | |
| P: 10/18/2005 7:01:08 PM | |
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
Date: 10/18/2005 5:20:07 PM Author: recran The ideals I've seen (Jared's, for the record) were really cool. On the other hand, I didn't think they were worth the price premium over the 'normal' cut stones that I have seen. So... I guess my definition of a great cut differs from that of the diamond experts. That's fine, of course. What matters to you is all that matters. However, don't count on all 'generic' rounds to look close to what the optimized proportions of the 'ideal' labeled deliver. I have no idea what were the ones you have seen at Jared- assuming AGS0 graded here.  Also, I don't know what size are you looking for - I1 has allot more chances to look clean in half caraters used in earrings than in 5 carat diamonds where the inclusions themselves should be large enough for the eye to resolve without much strain. Just my 0.2. I am hoping you will keep posting about your hunt for a clean I1  - some such stones look pretty darn good, it only takes some time and effrt to track that sort of item down.Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 10/18/2005 7:01:08 PM | |
| P: 10/18/2005 7:06:47 PM | |
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JohnQuixote Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,212 Last Post: 5/24/2008 Member Since: 9/9/2004 |
Date: 10/18/2005 7:01:08 PM Author: valeria101 Date: 10/18/2005 5:20:07 PM Author: recran The ideals I've seen (Jared's, for the record) were really cool. On the other hand, I didn't think they were worth the price premium over the 'normal' cut stones that I have seen. So... I guess my definition of a great cut differs from that of the diamond experts. That's fine, of course. What matters to you is all that matters. However, don't count on all 'generic' rounds to look close to what the optimized proportions of the 'ideal' labeled deliver. I have no idea what were the ones you have seen at Jared- assuming AGS0 graded here. Jared has recently started featuring AGS0 graded rounds, but as recran noted they do come at a premium. I wrote about a recent experience here. John |
| Posted: 10/18/2005 7:06:47 PM | |
| P: 10/19/2005 12:51:55 AM | |
Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,919 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002 |
I WISH MORE PS VENDORS STOCKED I1's!!!!!  As diamond prices are increasing...I think people tend to open up their mind to consider options they may not have considered last year or the year before when pricing was different. I have seen some amazing I1's on here, Patty has one, CanadianGrrl has one...I also have seen Giangi's K I1 stone which looks soooo clean at 40x mag. I know there are others. They are such steals. I would love a good I1 for a pendant, it would save a bundle but they are SO hard to find in the well-cut H&A manner...so many of them are just mediocre. Not many of the online vendors carry them unfortunately and I know they are far and few between even to find rough that could be a good cut and a well placed inclusion...but I am SOOO on the hunt.  ________________________________ |
| Posted: 10/19/2005 12:51:55 AM | |
| P: 10/19/2005 8:49:44 AM | |
DiamondLil Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,405 Last Post: 6/1/2006 Member Since: 6/8/2003 |
I too wish there were more I1s available. I personally don't have a problem with a tiny eye-visible inclusion when it comes to a pendant or earrings, but cut quality is not where I would want to make any sacrifice. I believe there are so few of these ideal-cut I1s available because there are few consumers who are willing to consider them. We at PS are far from the norm. A vendor would have to work harder to move the goods and make less for his efforts. DiamondLil ________________ "Diamonds are nothing more than chunks of coal that stuck to their jobs." |
| Posted: 10/19/2005 8:49:44 AM | |
| P: 10/19/2005 11:22:36 AM | |
aljdewey Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,236 Last Post: 2/11/2008 Member Since: 11/25/2002 |
Date: 10/18/2005 5:27:59 PM Author: Regular Guy Date: 10/18/2005 5:20:07 PM Author: recran So... how do I find a diamond seller who actually has I1s? I'm having a hard time finding diamonds that are over 2 carats in this town (Raleigh, NC). I regularly visit Asheville, NC, Charlotte, NC, and Greenville, SC. My other planned trips leading up to my 'time to purchase' include San Juan, PR and NYC. Did someone say NYC? I just did a little search with the search by cut database here for and I1, and came up with exactly one, and from one of the best vendors on the board. Also, he happens to be just outside of NYC. Sorry did you say anything else about the qualities you're looking for? This is a J, just over a carat, at $3500. Best wishes, I don't think that one's gonna work, Ira......per the post you quoted in yours, he's looking for 2+ carats. That's likely why he's having a hard time finding something.....the likelihood of finding an eye-clean I1 in the 2-carat range is sliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiim. Reallly slim.
_____________________ |
| Posted: 10/19/2005 11:22:36 AM | |
| P: 10/19/2005 11:44:51 AM | |
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Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,919 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002 |
I totally agree that an I1 is outside of people's norm thoughts Lil...but PS sales can make up a large amount of business. We see how many stones are purchased for rings and earrings, and custom items made (and posted, SMTR is always blazing with new stuff!) on a weekly basis. The last few SuperbCert I1's were bought by PS'ers. GOG had a beautiful 1.14 J I1 Jubilee that I was eyeing for a pendant, that was sold last week to a PS'er as well. Yes, PS'ers are a small minority of the diamond buying industry but I think that we are a significant presence to the jewelers who are on here. I personally think that if there were a few more I1's around, people on here would buy them. And they would not have to work any harder to move the goods to PS'ers. I don't think that there should suddenly be as many I1's as SI2's but I think that one or two in inventory at all times would be an interesting twist. I check Excel and GOG every other week to see if any new I1 stock is in. I am on the hunt, I don't have $$ to throw around and I want the best cut stone for the best deal possible for a pendant or similar. For a RING well that's a different story for some, ESP in larger goods. I think for some vendors it's also a mental 'stigma' aka maybe they don't want to sell something that could be perceived by anyone as less than the absolute best. But I really feel as diamond prices continue to rise, we'll continue to see people considering things that they would not otherwise if budget meant buying the same as 2 years ago, but it does not, and I know I have become more open to lower colors and clarity (look how many J SI2's we have seen just this year!), knowing just how picky these PS vendors are witht their goods, so I feel like if you work with a trusted vendor on an I1 purchase or a K purchase (I'd also love to see more K's out there, ESPECIALLY for smaller goods like earrings or pendants...I already know that a pair of J's looks ICY WHITE) then you could end up with something really great and inside of budget. ________________________________ |
| Posted: 10/19/2005 11:44:51 AM | |
| P: 10/19/2005 12:00:18 PM | |
glitterata Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,364 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 4/17/2002 |
I agree with Mara. PSers care about cut above all else. There are plenty of PSers willing to go down in color and clarity but not willing to compromise cut. If there were really well-cut I1s on offer, I know they'd sell. I know I'm out of the norm on this, but I would actually PREFER a diamond with a visible inclusion. My dream diamond is an F I1 Whiteflash New Line (I think--I've never seen one in person) with very strong blue fluorescence and an interesting crystal inclusion--transparent, not dark, but definitely eye-visible--right smack dab in the middle of the table. I'd like it to be big enough so I could see the arrows and the inclusion clearly when I looked down at my hand, so at least .75 carats. I wish it weren't hopeless to look for such a thing.
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| Posted: 10/19/2005 12:00:18 PM | |
| P: 10/19/2005 12:18:43 PM | |
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Regular Guy Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,316 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 7/7/2004 |
Date: 10/19/2005 11:22:36 AM Author: aljdewey Date: 10/18/2005 5:27:59 PM Author: Regular Guy Date: 10/18/2005 5:20:07 PM Author: recran So... how do I find a diamond seller who actually has I1s? I'm having a hard time finding diamonds that are over 2 carats in this town (Raleigh, NC). I regularly visit Asheville, NC, Charlotte, NC, and Greenville, SC. My other planned trips leading up to my 'time to purchase' include San Juan, PR and NYC. Did someone say NYC? I just did a little search with the search by cut database here for and I1, and came up with exactly one, and from one of the best vendors on the board. Also, he happens to be just outside of NYC. Sorry did you say anything else about the qualities you're looking for? This is a J, just over a carat, at $3500. Best wishes, I don't think that one's gonna work, Ira......per the post you quoted in yours, he's looking for 2+ carats. That's likely why he's having a hard time finding something.....the likelihood of finding an eye-clean I1 in the 2-carat range is sliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiim. Reallly slim. Al, right you are; sloppy reading on my part. The Price Stats is a tool that can help generate some options; here's one to look at. Regards, Ira (Ruffles have Ridges) Z. |
| Posted: 10/19/2005 12:18:43 PM | |
| P: 10/19/2005 12:22:41 PM | |
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Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,919 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002 |
Date: 10/19/2005 12:18:43 PM Author: Regular Guy Date: 10/19/2005 11:22:36 AM Author: aljdewey Date: 10/18/2005 5:27:59 PM Author: Regular Guy Date: 10/18/2005 5:20:07 PM Author: recran So... how do I find a diamond seller who actually has I1s? I'm having a hard time finding diamonds that are over 2 carats in this town (Raleigh, NC). I regularly visit Asheville, NC, Charlotte, NC, and Greenville, SC. My other planned trips leading up to my 'time to purchase' include San Juan, PR and NYC. Did someone say NYC? I just did a little search with the search by cut database here for and I1, and came up with exactly one, and from one of the best vendors on the board. Also, he happens to be just outside of NYC. Sorry did you say anything else about the qualities you're looking for? This is a J, just over a carat, at $3500. Best wishes, I don't think that one's gonna work, Ira......per the post you quoted in yours, he's looking for 2+ carats. That's likely why he's having a hard time finding something.....the likelihood of finding an eye-clean I1 in the 2-carat range is sliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiim. Reallly slim. Al, right you are; sloppy reading on my part. The Price Stats is a tool that can help generate some options; here's one to look at. Regards, An EGL F SI3? That SI3 is almost assuredly an I1 but I wouldn't trust an EGL I1, no way and no how. ________________________________ |
| Posted: 10/19/2005 12:22:41 PM | |
| P: 10/19/2005 12:35:26 PM | |
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Regular Guy Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,316 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 7/7/2004 |
Date: 10/19/2005 12:22:41 PM Author: Mara Al, right you are; sloppy reading on my part. The Price Stats is a tool that can help generate some options; here's one to look at. Regards, An EGL F SI3? That SI3 is almost assuredly an I1 but I wouldn't trust an EGL I1, no way and no how. So, that's reasonable. And viewing them all there through AGA 1B, they are all EGL. Just fyi. Ira (Ruffles have Ridges) Z. |
| Posted: 10/19/2005 12:35:26 PM | |
| P: 10/19/2005 3:34:59 PM | |
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recran Rough Rock Total Posts: 83 Last Post: 2/12/2006 Member Since: 4/14/2005 |
So... is it possible an SI3 by EGL is actually what I'm looking for?
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| Posted: 10/19/2005 3:34:59 PM | |
| P: 10/19/2005 4:33:45 PM | |
suziQ Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,173 Last Post: 10/21/2005 Member Since: 1/17/2005 |
One caution on an Included stone...even though the visibility of the inclusion may not bother you, be aware that all inclusions aren't the same. Some inclusions may compromise the integrity of the diamond. Stay away from those types of inclusions. From what I understand, inclusions are also graded by various criteria. Some I stones are going to deserve that grade because a few (or maybe even one) highly visible inclusions, where as others might get that grade because of more numerous less visible inclusions. I could deal with an inclusion that was big and black, but near the girlde of the stone and able to be covered by a prong easier than I could many smaller scattered inclusions that make the diamond look as if it was sprinkled with dirt upon close inspection. Stones that are graded I in clarity are graded so for a reason. Very few are truly "eye clean". And that's ok if the appearance of an inclusion either doesn't bother you, or can be disguised by a setting or a prong, or wouldn't cause the diamond to be more vulnerable to chipping or cracking. It's my humble opinon that the bigger the stone, the easier it is to see inclusions. I have some jewelry with SI2 and I accent stones, but the stones are so small that there is no way to see the inclusions without a loupe. But I have seen a lot of SI and I diamonds of larger size where the inclusions are easily visible with the naked eye. Just make sure that you are either buying from a vendor that you completely trust and who knows exactly what your expectations are, or get the diamond into your own hands and look at it with your own eyes before buying.
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| Posted: 10/19/2005 4:33:45 PM | |
| P: 10/19/2005 7:25:56 PM | |
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recran Rough Rock Total Posts: 83 Last Post: 2/12/2006 Member Since: 4/14/2005 |
Ya, it's a problem. I have seen an "I2" that was absolutely icky. It had what looked like a spray of carbon chunks right along the top and then was cloudy in another spot.  This I1 that I keep wishing I'd been able to buy was so great. It was totally eye clean except for one cavity. And the cavity was really well placed, so you could only find it if you knew where to look unless you really inspected the stone. And it would've been totally hidden when the stone was set. I even looked at it with a loupe and the bigger magnifying thing too and it looked great - better than SIs other than the cavity. 
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| Posted: 10/19/2005 7:25:56 PM | |
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