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Makers Mark |
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| P: 10/5/2005 3:01:03 PM | |
Matatora Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,230 Last Post: 7/26/2006 Member Since: 3/6/2005 |
Which vendors who do custom work mark their pieces? I was noticing that in the WF custom project I can never see their mark. Is that just a coincidence? Or do they not mark them? Does having a makers mark on a peice affect the value at all?
-Matatora Courage is the price that life extracts for granting peace Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in and out of favor. |
| Posted: 10/5/2005 3:01:03 PM | |
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There are 29 replies to this message. There are 29 replies on this page. |
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| P: 10/5/2005 4:34:44 PM | |
DiamondLil Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,405 Last Post: 6/1/2006 Member Since: 6/8/2003 |
I was wondering the same thing. My Quest ring has no marking either.
DiamondLil ________________ "Diamonds are nothing more than chunks of coal that stuck to their jobs." |
| Posted: 10/5/2005 4:34:44 PM | |
| P: 10/5/2005 4:40:29 PM | |
Kaleigh Ideal Rock Total Posts: 25,896 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 11/18/2004 |
I just checked my new ring from Quest and no marking either diamondlil.
____________________________ |
| Posted: 10/5/2005 4:40:29 PM | |
| P: 10/5/2005 4:53:24 PM | |
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Matatora Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,230 Last Post: 7/26/2006 Member Since: 3/6/2005 |
I dont want to say who, but someone got their ring appraised and they were told that not having a makers mark lowers the value. I was wondering if this was true or just one appraiser opinion. I am not trying to upset anyone, I think Kaliehg, Diamondlil, RL, and LLL rings are all very lovely.
-Matatora Courage is the price that life extracts for granting peace Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in and out of favor. |
| Posted: 10/5/2005 4:53:24 PM | |
| P: 10/5/2005 5:26:22 PM | |
tareyton Rough Rock Total Posts: 71 Last Post: 7/6/2006 Member Since: 7/20/2005 |
Makers Mark I got excited and though we were talking Bourbon.
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| Posted: 10/5/2005 5:26:22 PM | |
| P: 10/5/2005 5:30:33 PM | |
JohnQuixote Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,212 Last Post: 5/24/2008 Member Since: 9/9/2004 |
Date: 10/5/2005 3:01:03 PM Author:Matatora Which vendors who do custom work mark their pieces? I was noticing that in the WF custom project I can never see their mark. Is that just a coincidence? Or do they not mark them? Does having a makers mark on a peice affect the value at all? Mattie, We mark our line of Whiteflash design pieces, but have not always marked customers' custom projects. John |
| Posted: 10/5/2005 5:30:33 PM | |
| P: 10/5/2005 5:31:45 PM | |
ame Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,452 Last Post: 2/7/2006 Member Since: 7/7/2004 |
Well dang now I feel jipped! 
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| Posted: 10/5/2005 5:31:45 PM | |
| P: 10/5/2005 5:33:32 PM | |
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JohnQuixote Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,212 Last Post: 5/24/2008 Member Since: 9/9/2004 |
No No Ame... Feel honored. It was, after all, YOUR design. We just produced it.
John |
| Posted: 10/5/2005 5:33:32 PM | |
| P: 10/5/2005 5:33:37 PM | |
Wink Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,032 Last Post: 11/17/2009 Member Since: 5/4/2001 |
Not having a hallmark on a Tiffany ring would indeed lower the value and call into question by any downline purchaser if it were indeed a Tiffany ring. Not having a hallmark on a Wink Jones ring would not affect the value at all as far as appraisal purposes went. If I were to become famous and my rings treasured by collectors then the absence of those hallmarks would indeed cause problems to the sellers of my rings. Without the hallmark the ring should be appraised as is and for what it would cost to replace it as is. With a hallmark, the ring should be appraised for what it would cost to replace it at the store with the hallmark. That is true of designer lines also. A Vatche ring is worth more with the hallmark than a similar unbranded ring without it, since it sells for a higher price. Wink Wink Jones |
| Posted: 10/5/2005 5:33:37 PM | |
| P: 10/5/2005 5:34:36 PM | |
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Wink Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,032 Last Post: 11/17/2009 Member Since: 5/4/2001 |
Well Dang! You guys got in a lot of responses while I was typing!
Wink Jones |
| Posted: 10/5/2005 5:34:36 PM | |
| P: 10/5/2005 5:40:50 PM | |
jcrow Ideal Rock Total Posts: 6,477 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 8/8/2005 |
Can someone request a mark? Or is this not right if the customer helps in the design?
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| Posted: 10/5/2005 5:40:50 PM | |
| P: 10/5/2005 5:58:22 PM | |
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JohnQuixote Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,212 Last Post: 5/24/2008 Member Since: 9/9/2004 |
If you would like our mark on a design of your own imagination I suspect we would honor the request (unless I hear otherwise from our legal people).
John |
| Posted: 10/5/2005 5:58:22 PM | |
| P: 10/5/2005 6:13:20 PM | |
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Matatora Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,230 Last Post: 7/26/2006 Member Since: 3/6/2005 |
Date: 10/5/2005 5:33:37 PM Thanks Wink!
Author: Wink Not having a hallmark on a Tiffany ring would indeed lower the value and call into question by any downline purchaser if it were indeed a Tiffany ring. Not having a hallmark on a Wink Jones ring would not affect the value at all as far as appraisal purposes went. If I were to become famous and my rings treasured by collectors then the absence of those hallmarks would indeed cause problems to the sellers of my rings. Without the hallmark the ring should be appraised as is and for what it would cost to replace it as is. With a hallmark, the ring should be appraised for what it would cost to replace it at the store with the hallmark. That is true of designer lines also. A Vatche ring is worth more with the hallmark than a similar unbranded ring without it, since it sells for a higher price. Wink -Matatora Courage is the price that life extracts for granting peace Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in and out of favor. |
| Posted: 10/5/2005 6:13:20 PM | |
| P: 10/5/2005 6:37:45 PM | |
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ame Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,452 Last Post: 2/7/2006 Member Since: 7/7/2004 |
Date: 10/5/2005 5:33:32 PM Author: JohnQuixote No No Ame... Feel honored. It was, after all, YOUR design. We just produced it. I ripped off a prior. But Id love my own mark in it...Hrmmmm...what could I put in there!!!
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| Posted: 10/5/2005 6:37:45 PM | |
| P: 10/5/2005 8:10:03 PM | |
Lynn B Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,142 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 5/9/2004 |
Date: 10/5/2005 6:37:45 PM Author: ame [QUOTE]Date: 10/5/2005 5:33:32 PM Author: JohnQuixote But Id love my own mark in it...Hrmmmm...what could I put in there!!! A teeny tiny little engraved LOUPE, what else???! The international Mark of Ame!!!    Lynn And THAT'S my story and I'm sticking to it! |
| Posted: 10/5/2005 8:10:03 PM | |
| P: 10/5/2005 8:15:15 PM | |
Hamster Rough Rock Total Posts: 92 Last Post: 12/12/2005 Member Since: 9/29/2005 |
I thought this thread was about whiskey  (there is a brand called Maker's Mark)
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| Posted: 10/5/2005 8:15:15 PM | |
| P: 10/5/2005 8:24:20 PM | |
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Wink Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,032 Last Post: 11/17/2009 Member Since: 5/4/2001 |
Wasch that you shay?
Wink Jones |
| Posted: 10/5/2005 8:24:20 PM | |
| P: 10/5/2005 9:01:18 PM | |
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Matatora Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,230 Last Post: 7/26/2006 Member Since: 3/6/2005 |
Date: 10/5/2005 8:15:15 PM oy! That makes two of you, I dont inhibe so I never see things like that...I can be a bit of a flake. Sorry.
Author: Hamster I thought this thread was about whiskey (there is a brand called Maker's Mark) -Matatora Courage is the price that life extracts for granting peace Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in and out of favor. |
| Posted: 10/5/2005 9:01:18 PM | |
| P: 10/5/2005 9:14:32 PM | |
AGBF Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,041 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 1/26/2003 |
I have some pieces of jewelry designed by people or companies with well-known names. One of the designers whose work I have recently bought is Gurhan. I will have to look at the pieces, but I believe some pieces by Gurhan are marked and some are not, due to the size of the piece. Most of my jewelry is yellow gold. I have some pieces by Gurhan, some by Yossi Harari, and some by Elsa Peretti in yellow gold. I will try to look at them tomorrow (when there is some light)! Deborah A Girl's Best Friend |
| Posted: 10/5/2005 9:14:32 PM | |
| P: 10/5/2005 9:17:06 PM | |
RockDoc Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,509 Last Post: 6/17/2007 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
The marking on a ring sort of serves two purposes. It can affect the value of an item when the maker of the item, does have CRITICAL ACCLAIM (such as a major designer). There Wink is correct. However, I wouldn't say a Wink Jones ring now, with a marking that he made it, would have great affect in the value, but many times an artist's critical acclaim doesn't always happen while he's alive or producing his designs/creations. However some of the rings and jewelry he's posted are rather unique, and if for some reason he stopped making such items, his "name" could get critical acclaim when that occured. The second issue of puting the TRADEMARK of the maker is to idenify who is "liable" if later proven that the metal fineness was less than the requirements made legally. Years ago in PHilly I participated in exposing UNDERKARATING with consumer reporter Herb Denenberg. It became a very popular topic and many consumer news reporters did copies of his original story. In many of the jewelry shops in Philadelphia, many jeweler were selling gold jewelry that was marked "14K" - but after assaying the item the karat gold content was from 9 karat to 12 karat. In every case these underkarated items did not have the maker's mark on them. Retailers who were selling these blamed their suppliers, however consumers that purchased these items were the ones who ultimately suffered the loss. So if your gold item turns out not to be as marked, the hallmark "points" the finger at the responsible party. At the time, (and I believe they still do) the Jewelers Vigilance Committe (JVC) strong recommends to not buy jewelry that doesn't bear the hallmark or manufacturer's trademark. In the last 15-20 years the marking of "KP" ( which stands for karat plumb ) denotes that whomever stamped it is stating the item is within the legally required tolerance(s) for that karat fineness marking AND THE TRADEMARK OF THE MANUFACTURER IS STAMPED IN THE ITEM AS WELL. Rockdoc
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| Posted: 10/5/2005 9:17:06 PM | |
| P: 10/5/2005 9:39:00 PM | |
fountainfairfax Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,180 Last Post: 7/10/2006 Member Since: 2/4/2005 |
Although it wasn't my ring that Matatora was refering to, my appraiser stressed that a designer's mark is desirable, and that often he can assign a higher value to a piece documented as a custom design (maybe not a lot more, but that there is a certain unnamed % assigned to marked pieces.) I believe my appraiser said that if a ring is marked and the marking can be properly attributed (i.e. via detailed sales receipt) that information is then affixed to the appraisal. If as RocDoc pointed out, the designer becomes sought after, that makers mark is crucial and the appraisal can back that up. Also, pieces that are custom often pull higher prices at resale then those that are unmarked (as any antique-nut can tell you, provenance is very important.) There is also the very important reality that if a maker can be documented in the appraisal, it will help with proper remake/replacement in regards to insurance. I made sure that my ring designer would have my ring engraved not only with the platinum marking but also his designer mark as well, can't be too careful!
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| Posted: 10/5/2005 9:39:00 PM | |
| P: 10/5/2005 9:49:44 PM | |
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ame Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,452 Last Post: 2/7/2006 Member Since: 7/7/2004 |
Date: 10/5/2005 8:10:03 PM Author: Lynn B Date: 10/5/2005 6:37:45 PM Author: ame [QUOTE]Date: 10/5/2005 5:33:32 PM Author: JohnQuixote But Id love my own mark in it...Hrmmmm...what could I put in there!!! A teeny tiny little engraved LOUPE, what else???! The international Mark of Ame!!! Lynn GREAT IDEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| Posted: 10/5/2005 9:49:44 PM | |
| P: 10/5/2005 11:57:22 PM | |
jjaks Rough Rock Total Posts: 67 Last Post: 10/5/2005 Member Since: 6/3/2005 |
All of this leads me to a question about trademarking a diamond. I recently purchased my SQH&A from GOG. I wanted the GIA # inscribed on the diamond, however because GIA did not inscribe the number GOG could not use GIA as part of the inscription. They instead used UDIS (Ultimate Diamond Information Site) and the GIA#. My appraiser said this now trademarks the diamond and becomes part of my appraisal. Does this help or hurt me? They did not cut the diamond and to my understanding there are only a couple of places that do cut the SQH&A. What might I be looking at if I need to replace my diamond in the future? I'm interested in any opinions out there. Thanks Michelle
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| Posted: 10/5/2005 11:57:22 PM | |
| P: 10/6/2005 12:12:33 AM | |
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Wink Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,032 Last Post: 11/17/2009 Member Since: 5/4/2001 |
Date: 10/5/2005 9:01:18 PM Author: Matatora Date: 10/5/2005 8:15:15 PM oy! That makes two of you, I dont inhibe so I never see things like that...I can be a bit of a flake. Sorry.Author: Hamster I thought this thread was about whiskey (there is a brand called Maker's Mark) Nothing flaky about not knowing a brand of whiskey, kind of refreshing actually. I think the thread is actually very educational and interesting, with a little off beat humor thrown in. I am glad you found my informational post helpful and I apologise if you did not care for my wierd sense of humor. Wink Wink Jones |
| Posted: 10/6/2005 12:12:33 AM | |
| P: 10/6/2005 1:19:25 AM | |
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Matatora Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,230 Last Post: 7/26/2006 Member Since: 3/6/2005 |
No I did think you were funny!
-Matatora Courage is the price that life extracts for granting peace Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in and out of favor. |
| Posted: 10/6/2005 1:19:25 AM | |
| P: 10/6/2005 12:52:39 PM | |
mepearl53 Cut Rock Total Posts: 354 Last Post: 10/4/2007 Member Since: 4/14/2004 |
Date: 10/5/2005 9:17:06 PM I have to agree here with Rockdoc. In all of the years in here I have never purchased a piece then resold a piece that did not have the metal content and manufactures hallmark. I believe this to be the law but cannot find the info as yet. When we used to do custom work we stamped our pieces also. On some items that are too small to stamp there was usually a karat marking like on earrings. Many designs have copyright stamps inside also. So, my advice would be to insist that the pieces custom or not be properly stamped. If there is a problem down the road there is no question on who's piece it is.
Author: RockDoc The marking on a ring sort of serves two purposes. It can affect the value of an item when the maker of the item, does have CRITICAL ACCLAIM (such as a major designer). There Wink is correct. However, I wouldn't say a Wink Jones ring now, with a marking that he made it, would have great affect in the value, but many times an artist's critical acclaim doesn't always happen while he's alive or producing his designs/creations. However some of the rings and jewelry he's posted are rather unique, and if for some reason he stopped making such items, his 'name' could get critical acclaim when that occured. The second issue of puting the TRADEMARK of the maker is to idenify who is 'liable' if later proven that the metal fineness was less than the requirements made legally. Years ago in PHilly I participated in exposing UNDERKARATING with consumer reporter Herb Denenberg. It became a very popular topic and many consumer news reporters did copies of his original story. In many of the jewelry shops in Philadelphia, many jeweler were selling gold jewelry that was marked '14K' - but after assaying the item the karat gold content was from 9 karat to 12 karat. In every case these underkarated items did not have the maker's mark on them. Retailers who were selling these blamed their suppliers, however consumers that purchased these items were the ones who ultimately suffered the loss. So if your gold item turns out not to be as marked, the hallmark 'points' the finger at the responsible party. At the time, (and I believe they still do) the Jewelers Vigilance Committe (JVC) strong recommends to not buy jewelry that doesn't bear the hallmark or manufacturer's trademark. In the last 15-20 years the marking of 'KP' ( which stands for karat plumb ) denotes that whomever stamped it is stating the item is within the legally required tolerance(s) for that karat fineness marking AND THE TRADEMARK OF THE MANUFACTURER IS STAMPED IN THE ITEM AS WELL. Rockdoc ---------------------- |
| Posted: 10/6/2005 12:52:39 PM | |
| P: 10/6/2005 1:04:10 PM | |
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Wink Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,032 Last Post: 11/17/2009 Member Since: 5/4/2001 |
Bill, If I understand it correctly, the law does not require that a piece of jewelry be hallmarked, but that if it has a karat stamp then it must also have a hallmark so that the karat stamp can be enforced against the maker if it is incorrect. Thus all of the many rings seen with a karat stamp but no hallmark are in violation of the Federal Trade Commission's rules and regulations. Wink Wink Jones |
| Posted: 10/6/2005 1:04:10 PM | |
| P: 10/6/2005 1:22:25 PM | |
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mepearl53 Cut Rock Total Posts: 354 Last Post: 10/4/2007 Member Since: 4/14/2004 |
Date: 10/6/2005 1:04:10 PM Hi Wink,Author: Wink Bill, If I understand it correctly, the law does not require that a piece of jewelry be hallmarked, but that if it has a karat stamp then it must also have a hallmark so that the karat stamp can be enforced against the maker if it is incorrect. Thus all of the many rings seen with a karat stamp but no hallmark are in violation of the Federal Trade Commission's rules and regulations. Wink This is what the plumb laws were all about that Rockdoc referenced and I believe it was to apply to both manufactures and custom jewelers. Back in the 80's our lawyer advised us to properly identify the karat content and our personal hallmark because we we going into our own custom design. I can understand a dental student or amateur hobbyist making a item for person use or favors for a friend. But, I believe a business that sells to the public must include these identifying marks. I've got email into both sides and am waiting their response. ---------------------- |
| Posted: 10/6/2005 1:22:25 PM | |
| P: 10/6/2005 6:25:59 PM | |
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RockDoc Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,509 Last Post: 6/17/2007 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
Here's what the FTC says.... however the FTC Guidelines are just that ... Guidelines. They do not always have the force of law. They do in FTC "court" and in Federal Court,but in cases held in state jurisdictions, there is the requirement that the state adopt the Guideline to have the force of law, although a proper argument can be made through "persuasive authority" that in specific matters will considered as law. Don't confuse the Guidelines with trade regulations of the FTC which do have the force of law. Note 2 to § 23.9: Disclosure of identity of manufacturers, processors, or distributors. The National Stamping Act provides that any person, firm, corporation, or association, being a manufacturer or dealer subject to section 294 of the Act, who applies or causes to be applied a quality mark, or imports any article bearing a quality mark "which indicates or purports to indicate that such article is made in whole or in part of gold or silver or of an alloy of either metal" shall apply to the article the trademark or name of such person. 15 U.S.C. 297. _______________
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| Posted: 10/6/2005 6:25:59 PM | |
| P: 10/7/2005 12:57:33 AM | |
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Matatora Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,230 Last Post: 7/26/2006 Member Since: 3/6/2005 |
Date: 10/6/2005 1:22:25 PM Would this be to protect the consumer, maker, both?
Author: mepearl53 Date: 10/6/2005 1:04:10 PM Hi Wink,Author: Wink Bill, If I understand it correctly, the law does not require that a piece of jewelry be hallmarked, but that if it has a karat stamp then it must also have a hallmark so that the karat stamp can be enforced against the maker if it is incorrect. Thus all of the many rings seen with a karat stamp but no hallmark are in violation of the Federal Trade Commission's rules and regulations. Wink This is what the plumb laws were all about that Rockdoc referenced and I believe it was to apply to both manufactures and custom jewelers. Back in the 80's our lawyer advised us to properly identify the karat content and our personal hallmark because we we going into our own custom design. I can understand a dental student or amateur hobbyist making a item for person use or favors for a friend. But, I believe a business that sells to the public must include these identifying marks. I've got email into both sides and am waiting their response. -Matatora Courage is the price that life extracts for granting peace Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in and out of favor. |
| Posted: 10/7/2005 12:57:33 AM | |
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