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Princess or Radiant Cut?

P: 9/24/2005 3:29:48 PM
eyeball Rough Rock Total Posts: 16 Last Post: 3/30/2006 Member Since: 4/28/2004	Help, I'm down to these three stones and hope to purchase them Monday morning in New York. I kind of like the radiant cut better but the price of the princess is more to my liking. All are GIA certified. Princess 3.58 carats E color SI1 76% table 67% depth 9.178.715.89 47,500 Radiant 4.01 Carats F color VS2 70.7 depth 64% table 9.878.17 58,000 Radiant 5.02 carats F color SI1 70.8% depth 67% table 9.679.38*6.64 67,700 The princess looks almost as big as the 5 carat radiant but I know it is a shallow cut. Is a radiant cut a more desirable stone at this size? Please help. Thanks, David
Posted: 9/24/2005 3:29:48 PM

There are 14 replies to this message. There are 14 replies on this page.

P: 9/24/2005 3:35:56 PM
oldminer Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,964 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 9/4/2000	Everyone has a different sense of what is appropriate for the occasion. If you are giving this as an initial engagement ring and you can save $20K, give the 3.58 princess. I bet you can find some other very nice gifts for the wedding and honeymoon with the leftover change. If the diamond is for a gift after a long term marraige, then the larger ones may be more what a more mature woman might wish to own. Agian, this is variable as we can only imagine your circumstances and desires. Buy something you really like looking at, no matter what the weight or cost. Also, consider the sources of the color and clarity grades. Are they all GIA or is there a mix of other labs involved to play with your mind and wallet? Can't really tell you what to choose, but I hope this stimulates some questions from you to the sellers and on Pricescope for others to chime in on. David S. Atlas GG(GIA), ASG, Sr. Mbr. NAJA www.datlas.com
Posted: 9/24/2005 3:35:56 PM

P: 9/24/2005 3:49:54 PM
eyeball Rough Rock Total Posts: 16 Last Post: 3/30/2006 Member Since: 4/28/2004	Thanks for your reply. They are all GIA stones and this ring is to replace her previous engagement ring which was stolen. We have been married for 19 years and the stolen ring was a marquis. It was just over two carats but she would like to replace it with a larger stone and a square shape. All three of these stones look nice and we happen to be in New York for a long weekend. We were trying to find a local jeweler in St. Louis but they kept getting us k and j color stones which looked too yellow. We have dealt with blue nile for stud earrings but wasn't sure how it would be getting a large stone online and finding the right setting over the web. We also thought about getting the stone online and having it set at a local jeweler but I wasn't sure if the local jeweler would then charge us too much for the setting. I kind of like the 4 carat size as the 5 seems a little too big if that is possible. Thanks for your help. David
Posted: 9/24/2005 3:49:54 PM

P: 9/24/2005 6:11:08 PM
Tacori E-ring Ideal Rock Total Posts: 16,082 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 8/15/2005	You said she likes the "square cut" so I think that answers your debate. What is her finger size if you don't mind me asking? I am just trying to imagine a 5ct stone on my finger. WOW. I am not sure I could close my fingers. I am sure she will love any of the above stones. It is not really fair to compare prices between the three because of the different ct. wt., clarity, color...they are all different in their own way. Let us know what you decide.
Posted: 9/24/2005 6:11:08 PM

P: 9/24/2005 7:02:21 PM
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003	He, he ! It is hard to love that princess in such an alignment... If the cut is not so hot on top of all that, than, well, a radiant less deep cut and a bit more search would be in order, IMO. 10mm square for 5 carat radiant is nice finger cover, but 3 carats could get close to 9mm and still be a fine cut, looking like this: The picture comes from HERE. (*NYC too, btw*) There is an 'original radiant' - the cut is a designed cut with a purpose, and the standard fr radiants is briefly explained by those who came up with this cut in the first place at radiantcut.com. You may want to take a look if not done already. The picture above is one of their stones. Perhaps this is not called for, but since you call the princess shallow I imagine that reffers to the overly flat crown. Otherwise, either princess or radaint cuts can get well below 70% depth and not be 'shallow '- meaning depth like that alone is not enough to restrict brilliance, IMO. As much as I know, arounf 60% depth I still feel safe about these stones and would like to see them to decide whether the cut is a success. Congratulations and good luck diamond hunting, btw Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian]
Posted: 9/24/2005 7:02:21 PM

P: 9/27/2005 10:01:13 AM
eyeball Rough Rock Total Posts: 16 Last Post: 3/30/2006 Member Since: 4/28/2004	Well, we decided to pass on all three of these stone and are now in the market again for a new diamond. We decided we like the Radiant cut better than the princess so I think we may concentrate on the radiant stone. The five carat seemed to big for her finger so I think the 3.5-3.8 range will be better. I may start looking to online merchants but I'm not sure if I'll be able to find the setting online. David
Posted: 9/27/2005 10:01:13 AM

P: 9/27/2005 10:36:37 AM
James Allen Schultz Cut Rock Total Posts: 247 Last Post: 11/13/2009 Member Since: 6/18/2002	David, Sorry things didn't work out in New York. If you're back in St. Louis and committed to a radiant, you should see if you can get an online vendor to help you select 2-3 diamonds that really look outstanding on "paper", then have either the diamonds shipped to the vendor for analysis or even possibly to you and/or a local appraiser. As to the setting, you have a few choices. Getting your "online" diamond set in the local setting, sending the local setting to the "online" dealer, or getting the setting from the same place you bought the diamond. In the third scenario your ability to really communicate what you want through emails and pictures is critical. There are dozens (if not hundreds) of people on PS who've had custom work done by online vendors and are all very happy. It just really comes down to clear communication. Best of luck, Jim Schultz www.JamesAllen.com
Posted: 9/27/2005 10:36:37 AM

P: 9/27/2005 3:45:54 PM
diamondsbylauren Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,128 Last Post: 1/5/2006 Member Since: 10/18/2003	Hi David, Welcome to the Big Apple!!! I agree with Ana- 67% is not considered too shallow in a princess cut. I love Radiant in these large stones- but obviously, I'm prejudiced. Radiant cuts are avaiable in squares. From a setting standpoint, Square Radiant is safer- no 90 Degree corners to worry about. Plus, you can use a split prong on the radiant- which is nice on a large stone. A BIG red flag! The prices on the radiant cuts are fishy- they're way below market David
Posted: 9/27/2005 3:45:54 PM

P: 9/28/2005 11:14:37 PM
eyeball Rough Rock Total Posts: 16 Last Post: 3/30/2006 Member Since: 4/28/2004	I think my wife liked a setting style call lucinda(sp?) with about .6-.7 princess or radiant cut stones on the side of the center stone. It seems like a pretty common type setting so maybe I won't have too much trouble finding it with an online merchant. I'll have to start searching for the right center stone. I think we will probably go with a squarish shaped radiant in the center about 3.7 carats e or f color. Before we left New York the jeweler showed me a 3.71 FSI1 stone with depth of 74% and table 74% GIA certified for 39000. It looked nice but I think, based on the cut guide on pricescope, its not a very well cut stone. It also seems to be priced high as Blue Nile has one with the exact same dimensions for about 32000. On the other hand, compared to must radiant cut stones of this size and color the price is lower than most by a significant amount. It makes me wonder if there is something is wrong with the stone to be priced lower than most others in that size range. I guess my search for a replacement ring will continue on. David
Posted: 9/28/2005 11:14:37 PM

P: 9/29/2005 1:37:14 PM
diamondsbylauren Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,128 Last Post: 1/5/2006 Member Since: 10/18/2003	David- you can obviously choose to dirsegard what I'm saying here- BUT- the price you've been quoted- such as $39k for an F/SI1 3.71 are quite suspicious..... When a diamond is offered by a dealer, at a price well below market, it indicates a problem somewhere....... David
Posted: 9/29/2005 1:37:14 PM

P: 9/29/2005 1:51:07 PM
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003	Date: 9/29/2005 1:37:14 PM Author: diamondsbylauren [...] $39k for an F/SI1 3.71 are quite suspicious.....a price well below market, it indicates a problem somewhere....... And then there is that 32k at BN! Hopefully that was 3 carat with the same diameter as the other 3.7 piece. Is it this one at Blue Nile? If this 3 carat piece has the same spread (size face up) with the less lucky 3.71, this could go some length explaining the price of that (as much as I know - which is not all that much). And at least around here there are other 3 carat pieces priced like this. As for what they look like, only size shows - as usual Kind 's sad, really. 3.00 cts GIA: F / SI1 depth 69.7% table 65% GIA girdle: thn-extremely t No fluorescence Finish: gd/gd no Size: 8.88x7.80x5.44 Price: $32622 Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian]
Posted: 9/29/2005 1:51:07 PM

P: 9/29/2005 5:40:42 PM
eyeball Rough Rock Total Posts: 16 Last Post: 3/30/2006 Member Since: 4/28/2004	The one on blue nile is Radiant cut 3.71 carat FSI1 77.4% depth 74% table 8.868.136.29 strong blue flourescence $32,610 David
Posted: 9/29/2005 5:40:42 PM

P: 9/29/2005 6:17:44 PM
diamondsbylauren Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,128 Last Post: 1/5/2006 Member Since: 10/18/2003	HI David, Based on the diamonds which cutters have shown me over the past three months: A retail price for a really well cut Radiant of 3.71 carats, F color, eye clean SI1 is between $45,000-$90,000+ In this hypothetical example, the low price is an internet retailer, the high price is a fine jewelry store on Fifth Avenue in NYC. The list we use to gauge prices is calibrated btween 3.00-3.99 carats, at 4.00carats the price jumps about 15% per cazrat- so a 3.71 is going to be priced between the two- likely closer to the 4.00 price. There must be a reason for such a low price. Maybe it does not look that great in person- at 77.4%, the depth is high. Also, it would look more like a 3.00 carat stone As an example, a radiant we had once was 3.84 carats- it measured 10.35 x 7.95 x 5.03- which was a depth of 63.3%- stones of a better depth ratio look a lot larger than the 3.71 you referred to. Second possibility: a small percentage of stones in high colors, like F, exhibit a dull milky look. Third possibility: It's an SI1 which is not eye clean. Combine one, or more than one of these potential problems, and the price plummets. So it's either the deal of the century, or there's something undesirable about the diamond. Blue Nile is a great company- I'm sure you could ask them about the cut and so on, and also that they would give you a money back guarantee should you choose to purchase it. David
Posted: 9/29/2005 6:17:44 PM

P: 9/29/2005 7:59:33 PM
cinnabar Cut Rock Total Posts: 386 Last Post: 6/25/2006 Member Since: 11/29/2004	Date: 9/29/2005 6:17:44 PM Author: diamondsbylauren HI David, Based on the diamonds which cutters have shown me over the past three months: A retail price for a really well cut Radiant of 3.71 carats, F color, eye clean SI1 is between $45,000-$90,000+ In this hypothetical example, the low price is an internet retailer, the high price is a fine jewelry store on Fifth Avenue in NYC. There must be a reason for such a low price. Maybe it does not look that great in person- at 77.4%, the depth is high. Second possibility: a small percentage of stones in high colors, like F, exhibit a dull milky look. Third possibility: It's an SI1 which is not eye clean. Combine one, or more than one of these potential problems, and the price plummets. So it's either the deal of the century, or there's something undesirable about the diamond. Blue Nile is a great company- I'm sure you could ask them about the cut and so on, and also that they would give you a money back guarantee should you choose to purchase it. If it's the stone that has Blue Nile's stock number LD00104542, then the cut is only "Fair". The girdle is very thin in places. It's an F color with strong blue fluor. There's a lot of activity on the inclusions map, clustered in one corner. I bet it's not eye-clean. As strmrdr would say, "woof woof"
Posted: 9/29/2005 7:59:33 PM

P: 9/29/2005 9:04:49 PM
eyeball Rough Rock Total Posts: 16 Last Post: 3/30/2006 Member Since: 4/28/2004	I spoke with Blue Nile today and it does sound like the stone is a poor cut stone. I would bet if I did order it I would send it back as the cut would be bothersome. I also asked about a custom setting and they do not do custom settings at this time. They show the type of setting she likes called a trellis setting but it does not hold a large enough center or side stone. I don't think I want to order their stone and deal with a local jeweler for the setting. I think the local jeweler would probably try to sell me a setting at a higher cost because they were losing the profit on the center stone. I may try and deal with some of the other online merchants but I did have a good experience when I bought her diamond stud earrings on blue nile. They looked very nice and were 1.3 carat each GSI1 ideal cut. David
Posted: 9/29/2005 9:04:49 PM

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