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freedom tower

P: 7/11/2005 8:19:35 AM
lost on 5th Cut Rock Total Posts: 240 Last Post: 3/23/2008 Member Since: 3/16/2005	hello everyone- i would like to get your opinions and reactions to the new "freedom tower" at the WTC site. i am a little too connected to the design changes of the NYC skyline, and would like to hear some honest opinions from everyone. what do you think? would you work there? thanks (images from SOM via the NY Times)
Posted: 7/11/2005 8:19:35 AM

There are 37 replies to this message. There are 30 replies on this page.

P: 7/11/2005 8:20:13 AM
lost on 5th Cut Rock Total Posts: 240 Last Post: 3/23/2008 Member Since: 3/16/2005	#2
Posted: 7/11/2005 8:20:13 AM

P: 7/11/2005 8:38:42 AM
dazedland Cut Rock Total Posts: 398 Last Post: 8/15/2006 Member Since: 6/8/2005	I wish that they had just rebuilt the buildings exactly as they looked before from the outside. Out of all the designs that were in contention I think this was the best choice, but I am still not a big fan. I live less than 8 block from TWC, but I would not work there and wouldn't want my bf to either.
Posted: 7/11/2005 8:38:42 AM

P: 7/11/2005 8:43:52 AM
strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003	I like the building but dont think it fits the skyline. ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K
Posted: 7/11/2005 8:43:52 AM

P: 7/11/2005 11:14:54 AM
pearcrazy Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,438 Last Post: 11/27/2008 Member Since: 5/16/2004	I don't like the design. I say give the damn terrorists the big middle finger and re-build the towers exactly as they were before-- only taller and stronger. Yes, I would work there, I refuse to let those thugs make me live in fear or sadness forever. If so then they would win. It's time to move on. We need to honor the dead with a memorial at the site but I don't think that the whole concept should be changed to do so. Whenever I watch an old movie that pans the NY skyline it makes me sad that there are no more twin towers on the horizon. I just want them back as they were. "Have you ever noticed, anyone going slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac"--George Carlin
Posted: 7/11/2005 11:14:54 AM

P: 7/11/2005 12:12:12 PM
FireGoddess Ideal Rock Total Posts: 12,145 Last Post: 3/23/2009 Member Since: 1/25/2005	Having grown up on the east coast where I saw the twin towers every weekend most of my life, I really don't know what they could build there now that would make me happy. I didn't like most of the designs, though I do like this one the best out of what was available....but I'm not sure I would have voted for rebuilding the twin towers again either. I didn't lose anyone in tha tragedy, but I don't know that if I did, I'd want to see the same towers in its place, almost pretending 911 didn't happen. Of course that wouldn't be the intent, but I'm sure some people would feel that way. I kind of feel like this design IS a big middle finger to the terrorists...it towers even higher over the skyline than the first 2 towers did. It's growing on me. I kinda like it, with the big spire of light coming out the tiptop.
Posted: 7/11/2005 12:12:12 PM

P: 7/11/2005 12:24:30 PM
moremoremore Ideal Rock Total Posts: 6,825 Last Post: 2/9/2009 Member Since: 3/15/2004	You would work there pearcrazy? Just curious- where do you live now? Maybe your feelings would change if you lived and worked in NYC (not being confrontational, just asking)? I would make my husband quit his job before working there. It's like a giant kick me here sign. Every day I just give hubby a kiss and send him off on that NYC subway and that alone is enough to give me anxiety. I think in theory, it's nice to say F Off Terrorists and rebuild. In reality, for those living in or working in NYC, it's another thing to worry about. But then I guess people living and working in NY are building this LOL And I just want to add that there was a program (maybe a re-run) on yesterday showing how so much of the anti-terrorist funding is going to these middle of nowhere states that have NO terrorist threats. it's disguisting. Just disguisting. ______________________________ Stewart says: I'm good enough. I'm smart enough. And doggon'it, people like me.
Posted: 7/11/2005 12:24:30 PM

P: 7/11/2005 12:44:40 PM
pearcrazy Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,438 Last Post: 11/27/2008 Member Since: 5/16/2004	No, MMM, I don't live in NY. I lived in the suburbs for a few years as a child. Yes, I would work there. I would work at the Pentagon. I fly in planes regularly. I don't want to get flamed because I don't live in NY by New Yorkers who say I don't understand. My OPINION was asked by Lost on 5th and I gave it. Would it be different if I lived in NY? Perhaps, but I don't think so. "Have you ever noticed, anyone going slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac"--George Carlin
Posted: 7/11/2005 12:44:40 PM

P: 7/11/2005 12:44:55 PM
Dancing Fire Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,218 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 4/3/2004	Date: 7/11/2005 11:14:54 AM Author: pearcrazy I don't like the design. I say give the damn terrorists the big middle finger and re-build the towers exactly as they were before-- only taller and stronger. Yes, I would work there, I refuse to let those thugs make me live in fear or sadness forever. If so then they would win. It's time to move on. We need to honor the dead with a memorial at the site but I don't think that the whole concept should be changed to do so. Whenever I watch an old movie that pans the NY skyline it makes me sad that there are no more twin towers on the horizon. I just want them back as they were. agree, it should be the tallest buildings world. if the terrorists going to attack,they can attack a 10 story building. it is always harder to find a "mind clean" stone than a eye clean stone.
Posted: 7/11/2005 12:44:55 PM

P: 7/11/2005 12:57:56 PM
Dancing Fire Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,218 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 4/3/2004	Date: 7/11/2005 8:19:35 AM Author:lost on 5th hello everyone- i would like to get your opinions and reactions to the new 'freedom tower' at the WTC site. i am a little too connected to the design changes of the NYC skyline, and would like to hear some honest opinions from everyone. what do you think? would you work there? thanks (images from SOM via the NY Times) how many story is this new building? how tall compare to the old one? it is always harder to find a "mind clean" stone than a eye clean stone.
Posted: 7/11/2005 12:57:56 PM

P: 7/11/2005 12:58:29 PM
oldminer Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,964 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 9/4/2000	Its a good design and treats the zone of destruction with a degree of deserved respect. It is also tremendously valuable land and a tall building is what economic forces pretty much demand be done. NOTHING will ever be the same, not on that spot and not 1000 miles from it. That day changed the face of our country and the world. Nothing can take it away or diminish what happened except the passing of many, many years. Nothing that will be built will hide the events of 9/11. Nothing will make us whole or equal how we felt before that day. We must make a good show of it, by proving we can and will go on. We must show indomitable spirit in the face of terror or succumb to it. It isn't the "design" of a building that is important so much as showing us and the rest of the world our "design" for our future success and prosperity. David S. Atlas GG(GIA), ASG, Sr. Mbr. NAJA www.datlas.com
Posted: 7/11/2005 12:58:29 PM

P: 7/11/2005 1:05:09 PM
Kaleigh Ideal Rock Total Posts: 25,899 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 11/18/2004	I don't know, I lost 2 very good friends on 9/11. Part of me says build bigger and stronger, part of me thinks it shouldn't stick out like a sore thumb only to be attacked again. I couldn't work there. ____________________________ Piece of cake and a candle. ng gift
Posted: 7/11/2005 1:05:09 PM

P: 7/11/2005 2:13:51 PM
Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,906 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002	I read an article about this in NYT when we were in Palm Springs which somewhat echoed my thoughts. One of the big reasons the original approved sketch was discarded and reworked was because people felt as though the bottom of the tower was too vulnerable to car bomb attack etc..so the revised tower is sitting on this big block of concrete... They plan to put decorative grills in the concrete so it seems less of a prison but basically is windowless etc. I understand that they want this building to be perceived as super safe and 'impervious' to attack...but my thought when I read about the new design was...so they are going to make this one tower totally 'safe', but what about every other building in NYC or for that matter, in SF or DC or any other place where terrorists could attack? Anywhere? At the end of the article...the writer echoed my thoughts when he said something along the lines of, basically the message we are giving to terrorists is 'this building is ready for you, please go attack buildings 2, 3, 4 or 5'. I liked the old plans better than this new one... ________________________________ "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein
Posted: 7/11/2005 2:13:51 PM

P: 7/11/2005 2:51:24 PM
curlygirl Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,300 Last Post: 11/19/2009 Member Since: 4/9/2005	As a New Yorker who works 5 blocks from the WTC site and who saw the events unfold from too close, I'm really torn and confused about what should go in that spot. I have to agree with moremoremore, in theory I would love for them to rebuild the towers like the old ones. But in reality, I don't know if I could handle it. They've pretty much rebuilt 7 World Trade Center which came down shortly after the towers and it is EMPTY. I don't think they will be able to rent out any of it. And frankly, I'm not surprised. I wouldn't work in those buildings and wouldn't want any of my loved ones to either--not necessarily because I think something else will happen there (although that would be on my mind) but because of what already happened. At the same time, I can't stand that it has become a tourist attraction with people posing and taking pictures and videos in front of the gaping hole. I know, that's my bitter NY side coming out but it just makes me sick when I see tour buses and tshirt vendors around there. What is the solution? I have absolutely no idea. Just my opinion, of course...
Posted: 7/11/2005 2:51:24 PM

P: 7/11/2005 2:58:28 PM
lost on 5th Cut Rock Total Posts: 240 Last Post: 3/23/2008 Member Since: 3/16/2005	thanks for the comments so fare veryone! im biting my tongue over here to just let everything run for a bit! dancing fire- in regards to your comment, the new design has key top elevations to the building itself which match the height of the existing tower's (1362' and 1368'). the mast rises from a circular support ring similar to the statue of liberty's torch to a height of 1776' (symbolizing the year the United States declared its independence.) mara- yes, the new tower has a "blast resistant" base that is 200' heigh (translation 16 story high concrete block) and it does kind of scream "the doors locked....try the window" sorry..couldnt hold back :) here is a quick example i tossed together.
Posted: 7/11/2005 2:58:28 PM

P: 7/11/2005 3:08:13 PM
Skyblue Rough Rock Total Posts: 88 Last Post: 6/10/2007 Member Since: 3/3/2003	I actually like the new design but having said that I do think it is a BIG DOUBLE DARE to try to take it down again. Do I think we should rebuild -- yes. Would I work there or want someone I care about to work there -- no. That is just my honest opinion ...coming from someone on the West Coast who did not lose anyone close to me on 9/11.
Posted: 7/11/2005 3:08:13 PM

P: 7/11/2005 3:13:17 PM
moremoremore Ideal Rock Total Posts: 6,825 Last Post: 2/9/2009 Member Since: 3/15/2004	Again pearcrazy, was asking not flaming! But I still think perspective changes when you're actually living in a situation and not just seeing it on tv! But you are certainly entitled to an opinion!! I remember going online a while ago and trying to find gas masks that hubby could take with him to work. He thought I was crazy and Yeah, if anyone saw that- they would probably throw him off of the subway and call the FBI LOL People shouldn't have to worry about these things! No biting Loston5th LOL. What do you think about it? It's funny- I saw War of the Worlds the other day (sucked btw) and I was like GREAT, now I have to worry about bombs on the subway and ALIENS TOO? LOL ______________________________ Stewart says: I'm good enough. I'm smart enough. And doggon'it, people like me.
Posted: 7/11/2005 3:13:17 PM

P: 7/11/2005 3:28:05 PM
moremoremore Ideal Rock Total Posts: 6,825 Last Post: 2/9/2009 Member Since: 3/15/2004	p.s. I would be interested- of those who like it or hate it...how many live in or around NYC? ______________________________ Stewart says: I'm good enough. I'm smart enough. And doggon'it, people like me.
Posted: 7/11/2005 3:28:05 PM

P: 7/11/2005 4:17:09 PM
fire&ice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,827 Last Post: 3/30/2009 Member Since: 7/22/2002	Date: 7/11/2005 3:32:55 PM Author: Feydakin I doubt there is anything that could be built there that would satisfy everyone.. From an architectural point of view I hated the twin towers.. They were boring rectangles.. But they were a part of the skyline for 30 years.. I like the new design as a solution that will satisfy the most people and still be interesting when added to the skyline of NYC.. As for the block at the bottom, I think that this is a new design feature that we will see on new towers as they are built.. Yeah, living in a Architortural household numerous "OPINIONS" have been bantered about. And, being an ex pat of NYC - I remember when those "dopey" towers were built. They looked more out of place than what is being proposed. Now, I can't say "those dopey towers" without a tear in my eye. They did come to define the skyline. The first time into NYC after 9/11 taking the train across the Hudson - viewing the skyline, I broke down & had difficulty stopping my crying. I wasn't the only one. I like the Freedom Tower. And, it's going to be a pretty protected airspace. I hope after time (I would imagine it's going to take YEARS to build) people may become more immune. NY'ers are a resilient sort. I'll have to get a more descriptive handle on what my hubby thinks. During the design competition, the one initially selected wasn't his favorite.
Posted: 7/11/2005 4:17:09 PM

P: 7/12/2005 9:38:29 AM
AmandaPanda Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,268 Last Post: 11/11/2008 Member Since: 12/23/2004	I work in government and, specifically, on Lower Manhattan Redevelopment. I've been to hearing after hearing where the families of the victims of the attacks have discussed what they think is a proper memorial, and then the government just ignoring them. Frankly, I think it's disgusting. Personally, I think there is no need to rebuild such a tower. There is no need for it -- whether it is emotionally or commercially. To rebuild all that office space is nonsense. People would not want to work there, or at least enough people to make it worth it. 7 World Trade Center is now built, and they have yet to rent one office. And it's not for a lack of trying. In theory, the land there is very valuable and should not be 'wasted.' However, office buildings in Lower Manhattan are being turned into apartments. There is just no need to build more. Make the site a memorial. So many families do not have a grave to visit. That site is their grave. I say, let it be that try to remember the lives that were lost instead of puffing up our chests to say f-u to the terrorists by building a big, ugly, useless building.
Posted: 7/12/2005 9:38:29 AM

P: 7/12/2005 10:36:31 AM
oldminer Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,964 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 9/4/2000	"In theory, the land there is very valuable and should not be 'wasted.' However, office buildings in Lower Manhattan are being turned into apartments. There is just no need to build more. Make the site a memorial. So many families do not have a grave to visit. That site is their grave. I say, let it be that try to remember the lives that were lost instead of puffing up our chests to say f-u to the terrorists by building a big, ugly, useless building." Here is a different perspective, and a very good one, it would seem. Buliding a large place that no one would be willing to occupy would truly be a poor way to memorialize those who were lost. I appreciate hearing a local person's opinion. I wonder why the other scenario was chosen? Is it a "done deal"? David S. Atlas GG(GIA), ASG, Sr. Mbr. NAJA www.datlas.com
Posted: 7/12/2005 10:36:31 AM

P: 7/12/2005 11:18:17 AM
dazedland Cut Rock Total Posts: 398 Last Post: 8/15/2006 Member Since: 6/8/2005	I wasn't living here when 9/11 happened, but I had a lot of friends that worked in the building and everyone was ok physically. My boyfriend knew one person that worked in the building (they went to high school together in Phoenix) and I don't think they ever found his body. I don't think he would want to work there because of his friend and I wouldn't want him to. I agree about the tourists, there are thousands of them all day and at least 3 times a week they get off the subway by the seaport instead of by the WTC and they ask me directions. It overcrowds and already crowded area and besides that I find it disrespectful for them to come gawk, and for the street vendors to sell those books and t-shirts, etc. to profit from such a tragedy.
Posted: 7/12/2005 11:18:17 AM

P: 7/12/2005 12:15:27 PM
Starset Princess Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,474 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 11/24/2004	First of all, I have visited NYC more than once but no, I have never lived there. I watched the tragedy live on television, no not live before my very eyes, and yet I still have very strong emotions that come rushing back in an instant. Please do not undermine the validity of emotion of those who are not New Yorkers. The middle of nowhere state that I live houses the third largest city in the nation and I have the right to feel protected, too. I dont see what you see, but some tourists that come to gawk at the empty hole just might have been profoundly impacted by that September day and bravely made that journey to the site in solace and reverence. They would not understand being viewed in disgust. I feel the design is also a symbol of what we learned from the attacks as far as building security goes. To not build with this in mind would be an error. And finally, Lost On 5th, I personally like the design. It is too large for the skyline but if it were too small, people would view it as a pitiful attempt. Not only would someone be brave to work in this new building, it would represent exactly the courage America sustains when our freedoms are challenged by choosing not to live in fear. My opinions
Posted: 7/12/2005 12:15:27 PM

P: 7/12/2005 12:32:16 PM
AmandaPanda Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,268 Last Post: 11/11/2008 Member Since: 12/23/2004	Date: 7/12/2005 12:15:27 PM Author: Erin First of all, I have visited NYC more than once but no, I have never lived there. I watched the tragedy live on television, no not live before my very eyes, and yet I still have very strong emotions that come rushing back in an instant. Please do not undermine the validity of emotion of those who are not New Yorkers. The middle of nowhere state that I live houses the third largest city in the nation and I have the right to feel protected, too. I dont see what you see, but some tourists that come to gawk at the empty hole just might have been profoundly impacted by that September day and bravely made that journey to the site in solace and reverence. They would not understand being viewed in disgust. I feel the design is also a symbol of what we learned from the attacks as far as building security goes. To not build with this in mind would be an error. And finally, Lost On 5th, I personally like the design. It is too large for the skyline but if it were too small, people would view it as a pitiful attempt. Not only would someone be brave to work in this new building, it would represent exactly the courage America sustains when our freedoms are challenged by choosing not to live in fear. My opinions First off -- I am just stating my opinions. I do not mean, in any way to offend or enrage anyone... I understand your opinions, but think it is extremely difficult for you to understand what it is like to live in city that has been attacked. To know that New York City is getting similar amount of money as places in Wyoming or Iowa (I picked random states) is extremely insulting and nauseating. Why on earth is that necessary? The terrorists picked a place where they thought they could kill the most people. That is New York, that is not Nebraska. We should definitely get more money. When President Bush raises the terror level, without reason, he does not give NY more money to protect itself. (But that's a whole other rant that I will not go into). I get so angry when people say others would be brave or courageous to want to work in such a big, huge TARGET. If you want to work there, great. But I would quit my job is forced to move there. I feel that I am just as patriotic or brave for feeling that way. The WTC site is a gravesite. This is how I view it. So for people who live here to see tourists wanting to visit the site, it is odd. The majority of the people I know who have asked to go there have asked to gawk, not to remember. It's like watching a car crash... people slow down to see it, not to help out. I have actually been there and heard people complaining that they can't see any remains of people who died or that there wasn't any blood anywhere. How horrifying. I am not saying what you feel is wrong or inappropriate, but please try to understand how someone could feel completely different because they see it from the inside.
Posted: 7/12/2005 12:32:16 PM

P: 7/13/2005 3:10:50 PM
lost on 5th Cut Rock Total Posts: 240 Last Post: 3/23/2008 Member Since: 3/16/2005	Thanks everyone for your opinions. It is really good to hear from you. As for my thoughts I always thought they needed to rebuild. It needed to be tall and powerful and respectful and different. I understand the desire to rebuild the two towers as they stood before, but feel that it would be almost like ignoring what happened. I think it needs to be respectful of the tragedy and remember it. The new design, I am rather unsure about however. I dont know if I am disappointed because of how high my hopes were for something amazing and memorable (and probably unrealistic).and get something that is just another building. Aside from how the building will function, my biggest worry is that the towers base. How a 200 high reinforced wall will be from the street. It is a poorly thought out reaction to how to protect the tower from explosions and excessive. I think it will make the safest building in the world feel like a very scary place to be. Would I work there? Yes. And I most likely will be doing work in the tower during my career. Im an architect in NYC high-rises and interiors are how I spend my days. Would I get a sinking feeling in my stomach every time I see a plane heading up the Hudson? You bet! But it would just become another part of my day. It would be the same feeling I get on the subway when I am not sure if that bag on the floor belongs to the lady the bench.
Posted: 7/13/2005 3:10:50 PM

P: 7/13/2005 3:40:29 PM
lost on 5th Cut Rock Total Posts: 240 Last Post: 3/23/2008 Member Since: 3/16/2005	-- other bits if information -- - amanda, i agree with you that the $$ per state should be redone. i recall my home state (ohio) where a police department in farming and amish country was recieveing state of the art biological gear and detection devices that they didnt need or know how to use - as for building 7 at WTC. the exterior is finished i believe. interior isnt built out and will be finished early next year. its priced high but with incentived it should fill. - freedom tower is rumored to have the port authority of NY and NJ as the main tenant. they would occupy ~60% of the capacity.
Posted: 7/13/2005 3:40:29 PM

P: 7/13/2005 3:49:09 PM
fire&ice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,827 Last Post: 3/30/2009 Member Since: 7/22/2002	Date: 7/13/2005 3:40:29 PM Author: lost on 5th -- other bits if information -- - amanda, i agree with you that the $$ per state should be redone. i recall my home state (ohio) where a police department in farming and amish country was recieveing state of the art biological gear and detection devices that they didnt need or know how to use - as for building 7 at WTC. the exterior is finished i believe. interior isnt built out and will be finished early next year. its priced high but with incentived it should fill. - freedom tower is rumored to have the port authority of NY and NJ as the main tenant. they would occupy ~60% of the capacity. Re: the $$ per state. I am unsure how it is allocated; but, I can attest that there exists many more sinister targets outside of NYC. Targets that would cause more deaths & chaos. Just something to consider. Regarding the interior not being built out, down here it is customary to wait until you have a tenent to build that out. Unsure if that's the reason? That would be a good rumor at 60%! Is Port Authority THAT big? I guess NY & NJ does have quite a bit of all modes of transportation moving in and out.
Posted: 7/13/2005 3:49:09 PM

P: 7/13/2005 3:53:18 PM
fire&ice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,827 Last Post: 3/30/2009 Member Since: 7/22/2002	Does the concrete block have some sort of decorative frienze?
Posted: 7/13/2005 3:53:18 PM

P: 7/13/2005 3:59:13 PM
Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,906 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002	If I am not mistaken, the concrete block is actually the LOBBY of the building..and there will be decorative grille or something, but no windows. Cheery! ________________________________ "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein
Posted: 7/13/2005 3:59:13 PM

P: 7/13/2005 4:03:44 PM
fire&ice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,827 Last Post: 3/30/2009 Member Since: 7/22/2002	Date: 7/13/2005 3:59:13 PM Author: Mara If I am not mistaken, the concrete block is actually the LOBBY of the building..and there will be decorative grille or something, but no windows. Cheery! I dunno - could be kinda cool if they find good alternative light sources & if it's just the lobby. It wouldn't feel clautrophopic if the proportions work. But then, I won't stay at a hotel without a working window.
Posted: 7/13/2005 4:03:44 PM

P: 7/13/2005 4:13:06 PM
Matata Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,647 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 9/10/2003	I would prefer to see a green and open space, a memorial park. For me, to sacrifice the development of a highly prized and commercially valuable piece of real estate is the strongest testament to honor those who died (and to all who suffered and continue to suffer from 9/11) and the strongest acknowledgment of the scope of the tragedy than erecting another building. ~~~~~~~~~~ There is only one way to achieve happiness on this terrestrial ball, and that is to have a clear conscience or none at all. Ogden Nash
Posted: 7/13/2005 4:13:06 PM

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