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 » RockyTalky
»  » Radiant Advice Needed
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Radiant Advice Needed |
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| P: 5/2/2005 9:58:11 PM | |
am6 Rough Rock Total Posts: 2 Last Post: 5/5/2005 Member Since: 2/5/2005 |
Hello, I'm pretty new to this process and site, but I've been looking at diamonds for a while now, and I think I may be getting close. I found the following stone here and was wondering if anyone had any advice on this. 1.00 ct F VS2 68.6% depth 66% table GIA tk girdle no florescense vg polish ex symmetry no culet dimensions: 5.66*5.61*3.85
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| Posted: 5/2/2005 9:58:11 PM | |
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There are 20 replies to this message. There are 20 replies on this page. |
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| P: 5/2/2005 10:08:23 PM | |
Diachi Cut Rock Total Posts: 175 Last Post: 9/4/2006 Member Since: 4/24/2005 |
The numbers look decent in terms of cut from what I understand but need more information to really tell (like price, cert.,etc.). Other than that I'm not much help other than there may be some weight in the thick girdle-I'm a newbie here looking for a square radiant as well, good luck on your search!
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| Posted: 5/2/2005 10:08:23 PM | |
| P: 5/3/2005 3:36:08 AM | |
Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,586 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
It could be a very nice looking Radiant, and it could be a shocker with those proportions. First off read the 60 60 section of the tutorial - we do not know its crown and pavilion info. Secondly there are 3 crown and 3 pavilion variables - so the only way to know if the stone looks good from a light return point of view is to have a 3D file from an advanced Sarin scanner or Helium (and there are only 2 in USA). Next best is an ideal-scope photo that we can all help analyse for free - or you buy your own and read the webiste and DIY AGs are introducing a multi colored ASET scope for the same purpose. Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 5/3/2005 3:36:08 AM | |
| P: 5/3/2005 9:06:25 AM | |
coda72 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,096 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 3/1/2005 |
The diamond you're looking at may be a bit small for its carat weight, but as far as what it looks like other than that it's hard to tell. Just as a reference, the diamond I purchased was a 1.03 carat, and its dimensions were 6.07*5.66. Sorry I can't remember the depth offhand. My depth and table percentages were 64.9% and 63%. So, if it doesn't bother you that the diamond may be just a bit small but still could look nice, order and take a look at it (and/or take it to an appraiser).
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| Posted: 5/3/2005 9:06:25 AM | |
| P: 5/3/2005 12:31:09 PM | |
Josh@JA Cut Rock Total Posts: 366 Last Post: 2/18/2008 Member Since: 9/11/2003 |
am6.... If we were taking bets I would have to bet that this diamond would be a beauty. Once you get to take a look at the diamond I'm sure that it will be an eye-pleaser. Good luck... 
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| Posted: 5/3/2005 12:31:09 PM | |
| P: 5/4/2005 1:19:12 AM | |
diamondsbylauren Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,128 Last Post: 1/5/2006 Member Since: 10/18/2003 |
Hi Am, If you'd like to post the price, I can let you know if it's in line. I dont agree with the use of the Idealscope- it's a total waste of time for a Radiant cut. As opposed to what was written here, I believe your eyes are the final arbiter. There's a huge variety of angles that will produce a great looking stone, yet other times the same angles producea stone with dead spots. Facet size and placement, as well as other factors mean that each diamond must be judged on it's own. Is the seller in possesion of the diamond-can you see it? David |
| Posted: 5/4/2005 1:19:12 AM | |
| P: 5/4/2005 1:52:54 AM | |
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Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,586 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
So David it seems AGS have wasted years researching their new Princess cut grading system? They started at the same place as me - the Firescope(tm) and arrived at an amazingly similar system for cut grading. I already have agreed with you that there is an amazing # of workable proportions fo Princess cuts. So yes am6 - you can and should use the IS in selecting any diamond of any shape. The Brillainscope can help too - but it is not as readily acessable as a $25 tool. Any advice to the contrary makes me wonder what people have to hide. Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 5/4/2005 1:52:54 AM | |
| P: 5/4/2005 2:05:04 AM | |
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
Date: 5/4/2005 1:52:54 AM Author: Garry H (Cut Nut) They [AGS] started at the same place as me - the Firescope(tm) and arrived at an amazingly similar system for cut grading. That must be annoying  How does their peacock 'scope work ? (in short, what is each color supposed to mean on the new AGS scope) Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 5/4/2005 2:05:04 AM | |
| P: 5/4/2005 2:57:04 AM | |
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Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,586 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
Blue = high angle lihghting = observer contrast Red = medium high lighting - the best type Green = low angle lighting - the worst type. No radiant photo's lying around - but I have this asscher 
Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 5/4/2005 2:57:04 AM | |
| P: 5/4/2005 2:58:29 AM | |
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Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,586 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
oops Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 5/4/2005 2:58:29 AM | |
| P: 5/5/2005 3:00:15 PM | |
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am6 Rough Rock Total Posts: 2 Last Post: 5/5/2005 Member Since: 2/5/2005 |
Thanks all for your feedback. I've been out of town the last couple days, and the advice you've given me really convinces me that I need more information - including seeing it with my own eyes. The thing that worries me about the radiant cut is that some look more like a brilliant and some have the cracked glass look. I'm looking for the more brilliant look.
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| Posted: 5/5/2005 3:00:15 PM | |
| P: 5/5/2005 5:11:19 PM | |
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Ann Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,527 Last Post: 6/1/2007 Member Since: 9/24/2004 |
Could anyone post pictures of "cracked glass" and "brilliant" ? I am pretty sure I have seen the cracked glass effect, but brilliant - hmm? Not sure.
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| Posted: 5/5/2005 5:11:19 PM | |
| P: 5/5/2005 6:40:40 PM | |
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diamondsbylauren Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,128 Last Post: 1/5/2006 Member Since: 10/18/2003 |
HI everyone! Garry- That's an awesome representation of an asscher! Can we see the actual photo? I think any and all research done- including yours- can be valuable. Ultimately, much like the study of art, the veiwer will have to make the choice of exactly what constitutes beauty. Generations have loved what masters like Van Gogh, or Monet created. There are volumes written about the works of these, and other masters . Or great architecture. Your research and writing is interesting, but academic- compared to the people actually working the rough into amazing polished diamonds. An Ideal Scope is not useful in determing desirability of a Radiant Cut Diamond. I say this because I have quite a few beautiful radiant cut Diamonds here, as well as an IdealScope. Trying to look at the diamond through the little pink plastic thing is SO annoying- when all you need do is use your eyes. It does not take an expert to tell if a diamond is badly cut. A GIA report is a great tool in determing exactly what kind of material the artist ( cutter) had to work with. When GIA finally issues it's "Cut Grade" it's sure to include a far wider range as compared to , say AGS0 cut grade. AM6- you have asked about two different directions cutters may take , when polishing Radiant Cut diamonds. One method involves using faceting closer to a round briilliant on top and bottom- resulting in facet patters with greater definition- ala Hearts and Arrows. The other , more common approach produces what people refer to as "The Bucket Of Crushed Ice" look. With this type of cut the eye is not drawn to any particular facet- the actual spaklewon't allow you to focus on on e particualr facet, in a really well cut Radiant Maybe it's this reason that I feel the IdealScope is simply an impediment to veiwing a Radiant diamond- it does not work with a stone with the crushed ice look- like my avitar. David |
| Posted: 5/5/2005 6:40:40 PM | |
| P: 5/5/2005 8:36:42 PM | |
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Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,586 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
David can you show me a photo of your ideal-scope please? It is an ideal-scope and not a H&A's viewer? That photo is using the new AGS ASET scope method - which is exactly the same as the Ideal-scope - except that it has 3 colors. To say the Ideal-Scope does not work means you need to tell AGS and Prof Sassian of the Optonics department Uni of Arizona, that years of their research was watsted. http://www.cutstudy.com/conference/program.htm a page down shows there presentations last year which anyone who wants to can read about by buying the now 1/2 price proceedings here: http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_zoom_item.asp?Id=18&ShowAdd=Y Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 5/5/2005 8:36:42 PM | |
| P: 5/5/2005 8:52:06 PM | |
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diamondsbylauren Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,128 Last Post: 1/5/2006 Member Since: 10/18/2003 |
My IdealScope My Heats and Arrows Veiwer
David |
| Posted: 5/5/2005 8:52:06 PM | |
| P: 5/5/2005 8:55:52 PM | |
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diamondsbylauren Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,128 Last Post: 1/5/2006 Member Since: 10/18/2003 |
Of course a lot of people confuse my nail clipper with my Ideal-Scope
David |
| Posted: 5/5/2005 8:55:52 PM | |
| P: 5/5/2005 9:23:05 PM | |
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diamondsbylauren Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,128 Last Post: 1/5/2006 Member Since: 10/18/2003 |
And darned if five people have not asked me if my flashlight was a Hearts and arrow viewer i mean no disrespect at all to the people that developed these tools. I'm sure even they would agree that inspection with a 10power loupe, as well as close visual inspeciton are essential tools to use when examinig a diamond before purchase. Sure a H&A veiwer is great if that is what you're looking for - and the ideal Scope is designed to accent the same type of faceting. These tools were developed with one specific type of cut in mind. I'm sure the inventors of both would agree neither are useful in judging Radiant Cut diamonds. David |
| Posted: 5/5/2005 9:23:05 PM | |
| P: 5/5/2005 10:24:55 PM | |
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Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,586 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
AGS developed the ASET scope mainly for fancy cuts David. That is certainly where it will have the most application. And I have never been a fan of H&A's - I believe that about 1/2 the H&A's are not the best cut, and that there is a huge range of diamonds outside the normally accepted ideal proportions that are great looking stones. So we have no arguement there. Diamonds with realy wierd proportions can be great performers with the ideal-scope. Maybe you could visually sort 100 diamonds into 5 different cut grade piles - best to worst - annd that is not that quick and easy. With radiants and other fancies you can easily divide stones into + 5 catagories very quickly, then just examine your top 2 piles for the final selection (most people do cut before clarity - because it then becomes faster to sort a parcel for your selection). Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 5/5/2005 10:24:55 PM | |
| P: 5/6/2005 2:23:27 AM | |
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Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,586 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
I should say that this stone is one of those really nice CZ's that Wink and others sell. The photos show it under an ideal-scope and also what it would look like with the AGS's ASET tool. (angular spectrum evaluation tool) You can easily see in both cases the stone has very little leakage. The ASET tool lets you see a little more info though about where the light comes from - the blue is like the ideal-scope black - from high angles. Red is medium angles and gren is light from low angles. Now any radiant or any stone that leaks a lot (common) with the ideal-scope will not be a great performer with any other tool - especiallly the human eye.  Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 5/6/2005 2:23:27 AM | |
| P: 5/6/2005 2:34:21 AM | |
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valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
David, does the picture below (from your site, of course) have anything to do with this Asscher chat ? Whatever that thing is, it barely needs introduction !  Would you care to share the details ?  Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 5/6/2005 2:34:21 AM | |
| P: 5/6/2005 3:56:34 PM | |
icemyster Cut Rock Total Posts: 111 Last Post: 10/6/2008 Member Since: 4/30/2005 |
Dave, No to jump on the band wagon, but I rely hevily on the ideal scope when I am deciding what to buy for stock. Here are a couple pictures to prove case in point. I agree with you and don't know how I would live without it. This is a stone that I photographed. Great image.....I have seen many other stones with images that are not nearly as nice and the brilliance scope, as well as the stones apprerance, do not look as nice as this one.  BMW The Ultimate Driving Machine |
| Posted: 5/6/2005 3:56:34 PM | |
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