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 » RockyTalky
»  » Pave Workmanship Question
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Pave Workmanship Question |
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| P: 3/15/2005 4:25:11 PM | |
FireGoddess Ideal Rock Total Posts: 12,145 Last Post: 3/23/2009 Member Since: 1/25/2005 |
Is there an actual, valid reason why pave "prongs" would be staggered like alternating steps instead of even like ladder rungs on each side of a diamond? Or is this simply a case of faulty workmanship? Please advise. Attached are two pictures: in the side view picture, the pave prongs on the shank are staggered/offset from one another on each side. (This is more dramatic in real life...if they look somewhat even at all, it's the camera angle.) In the Ritani halo ring, you can see that the pave prongs line up on each side in the halo. Is there a valid reason for the staggered version, or is it carelessness?? Thanks in advance. 
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| Posted: 3/15/2005 4:25:11 PM | |
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There are 24 replies to this message. There are 24 replies on this page. |
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| P: 3/15/2005 4:31:14 PM | |
Kaleigh Ideal Rock Total Posts: 25,918 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 11/18/2004 |
Man that's a good question! I definetly see what you are talking about. Hope the experts will chime in.
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| Posted: 3/15/2005 4:31:14 PM | |
| P: 3/15/2005 4:35:42 PM | |
Rascal49 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,350 Last Post: 7/16/2007 Member Since: 7/25/2004 |
Firegoddess, On the head of your ring, are they aligned like the Ritani ring? I wonder if it has to do with the location difference. Wonder if there is a pic of the Ritani or any other pave on the band of a ring.... ________________________________ |
| Posted: 3/15/2005 4:35:42 PM | |
| P: 3/15/2005 4:36:36 PM | |
jenwill Ideal Rock Total Posts: 735 Last Post: 2/19/2006 Member Since: 6/7/2004 |
It looks kind of like the Ritani has smaller melee, and the 'balls' or prongs can be small and still adequately cover the side-by-side stones enough to hold them in place. On your ring, it looks as if to achieve the same effect, the prongs would have to be much larger, and might be out of proportion to the look of the ring. So instead, the alternated them a bit..it looks as if each of your melee basically has 2 prongs holding them in place, as oppossed to the Ritani which has 4 prongs holding each stone. I don't know if that made any sense to you (or to me either!), but I was trying to envision the same look on your ring and it just struck me that it would have a much higher metal to diamond ratio.... Perhaps a metalsmith will pop on to give some expert advice edited for baaaad typing
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| Posted: 3/15/2005 4:36:36 PM | |
| P: 3/15/2005 4:43:59 PM | |
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Rascal49 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,350 Last Post: 7/16/2007 Member Since: 7/25/2004 |
Well, I looked at the Ritani, and they are aligned the same down the band as they are on the bezel. The more I look at your ring, the more I think it was just a design decision. I could be wrong, but from your picture, are they are only two beads of metal holding in each stone, like top left and bottom right or are there three? But in the end, I think it was just a different way to do it and actually, I kinda like it!! (but I'm not the one wearing lol!!) ________________________________ |
| Posted: 3/15/2005 4:43:59 PM | |
| P: 3/15/2005 4:49:37 PM | |
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FireGoddess Ideal Rock Total Posts: 12,145 Last Post: 3/23/2009 Member Since: 1/25/2005 |
Stretch, I don't have the ring anymore (being redone) but pics of the top halo seem to show that the prongs there were staggered as well. It doesn't seem so bad in the pics, but when I was wearing it...it looked...done wrong.  
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| Posted: 3/15/2005 4:49:37 PM | |
| P: 3/15/2005 4:52:45 PM | |
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Rascal49 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,350 Last Post: 7/16/2007 Member Since: 7/25/2004 |
Well, if you don't like it, is it too late to have them fix it while its being redone? If it bothers you now, it is just going to keep bothering you!! Lol, that is exactly what happens to me! But then again, some might call me a little bit crazy....
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| Posted: 3/15/2005 4:52:45 PM | |
| P: 3/15/2005 4:53:41 PM | |
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Rascal49 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,350 Last Post: 7/16/2007 Member Since: 7/25/2004 |
And yeah, I see what you are saying on the head. It definitely looks like it was just not properly aligned. They seem to be ever so slightly off...
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| Posted: 3/15/2005 4:53:41 PM | |
| P: 3/15/2005 4:53:50 PM | |
Michael_E Cut Rock Total Posts: 325 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 11/19/2003 |
FireGoddess, You've got your diagonal lines going the wrong way. The pear shape has its mellee being held in by two beads at diagonals that are opposite to the way the you've drawn them. The Ritani has each diamond being held by 4 shared beads. The pear shape is not flawed, that's the way they made it. I prefer the Ritani method, but whoever did the pear shaped ring had to have planned it that way, since everything is laid out pryor to drilling and setting the stones. They probably felt that it looked lighter and finer looking this way, or maybe the diamonds are not all the same size and this was a faster way of making sure that everything fit without having to mess with it. Is the pear shaped ring an estate piece ? |
| Posted: 3/15/2005 4:53:50 PM | |
| P: 3/15/2005 4:55:17 PM | |
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Rascal49 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,350 Last Post: 7/16/2007 Member Since: 7/25/2004 |
Date: 3/15/2005 4:53:50 PM Author: Michael_E FireGoddess, You've got your diagonal lines going the wrong way. The pear shape has its mellee being held in by two beads at diagonals that are opposite to the way the you've drawn them. That was what I was trying to say so ineffectively! ________________________________ |
| Posted: 3/15/2005 4:55:17 PM | |
| P: 3/15/2005 4:59:32 PM | |
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FireGoddess Ideal Rock Total Posts: 12,145 Last Post: 3/23/2009 Member Since: 1/25/2005 |
I have plenty of time to have it changed...I was wondering if there might have been a valid reason for it though. I actually called the jeweler today and finally issued an ultimatum...I returned that ring because I did not like their setting. This was before Valentine's day...and since then I've seen all of one new wax (which was nothing like what I described I wanted)...3 weeks have gone by with no progress since that last wax, so I have finally put my foot down and said that I will be in the store on Friday, and there will either be a wax I like, a new quote from a local designer (not this distant bs) with expected completion date, or my loose stone and my money back. We'll see...but I thought I'd go in there informed. If by some act of God I do like the wax, I want to make sure there's no structural reason for the staggered prongs before I tell them I don't want it done that way.  
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| Posted: 3/15/2005 4:59:32 PM | |
| P: 3/15/2005 5:05:19 PM | |
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FireGoddess Ideal Rock Total Posts: 12,145 Last Post: 3/23/2009 Member Since: 1/25/2005 |
Date: 3/15/2005 4:53:50 PM Author: Michael_E FireGoddess, You've got your diagonal lines going the wrong way. The pear shape has its mellee being held in by two beads at diagonals that are opposite to the way the you've drawn them. The Ritani has each diamond being held by 4 shared beads. The pear shape is not flawed, that's the way they made it. I prefer the Ritani method, but whoever did the pear shaped ring had to have planned it that way, since everything is laid out pryor to drilling and setting the stones. They probably felt that it looked lighter and finer looking this way, or maybe the diamonds are not all the same size and this was a faster way of making sure that everything fit without having to mess with it. Is the pear shaped ring an estate piece ? Thanks Michael. The lines were just meant to show the staggering I noticed. Now I see what you're saying. I prefer the Ritani method as well...and actually, the pear ring is not an estate piece. I wanted my pear solitaire done in a very thin, delicate micropave halo setting...and the jeweler completely disgregarded the "tiny, delicate" thing and blinged it out with such huge melee, it looked like a cocktail ring instead of an engagement ring. I originally gave them my solitaire pear in January, got this piece back in February, and didn't like it so I returned it for redo just before Valentine's day. The look I'm actually trying to achieve is more along the lines of the Ritani, but with a pear.
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| Posted: 3/15/2005 5:05:19 PM | |
| P: 3/15/2005 5:08:00 PM | |
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FireGoddess Ideal Rock Total Posts: 12,145 Last Post: 3/23/2009 Member Since: 1/25/2005 |
Date: 3/15/2005 5  3:41 PMAuthor: Feydakin Michael beat me to it.. It's a design element.. They are doing a 2 prong setting in pave.. Your line should be drawn like this.. Is the 2 pronged approach less secure than the 4 shared, out of curiosity?
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| Posted: 3/15/2005 5:08:00 PM | |
| P: 3/15/2005 5:19:37 PM | |
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Michael_E Cut Rock Total Posts: 325 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 11/19/2003 |
Firegoddess, The two prong version is more than adequate. BUT if you don't like it, there is no point in doing it this way. Your whole problem of approving waxes will be a moot point very shortly. In the world of custom work, the use of computerized drawing systems is rapidly making it's way into every custom jewelers tool box. With the use of a CAD/CAM system your jeweler could have had something for you to look at in a couple of weeks or sooner, and then make changes to suit you in a couple of days. This will eliminate any guesswork on anyones part and these kind of design changes and long waits will be a thing of the past. Even the wax is carved by the machine and is accurate to the drawing to within a couple of thousandths of an inch. Very cool and eliminates lots of hassles. |
| Posted: 3/15/2005 5:19:37 PM | |
| P: 3/15/2005 6:59:49 PM | |
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Rascal49 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,350 Last Post: 7/16/2007 Member Since: 7/25/2004 |
Firegoddess, maybe you should show your jeweler this image from Dirt Cheap Diamonds that definitely has a much more delicate halo around the pear (disregarding the split shank of course)   ________________________________ |
| Posted: 3/15/2005 6:59:49 PM | |
| P: 3/15/2005 7:12:22 PM | |
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FireGoddess Ideal Rock Total Posts: 12,145 Last Post: 3/23/2009 Member Since: 1/25/2005 |
Stretch, I tried...this was one of the many collages I put together for them. I think this was the 2nd or 3rd. I don't know what else I could possibly do to make things more clear???!! I shrunk it to post here..the real thing is a whole sheet of paper. I also think I need somebody with CAD/CAM...!!!
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| Posted: 3/15/2005 7:12:22 PM | |
| P: 3/15/2005 7:43:57 PM | |
chellebelle Cut Rock Total Posts: 428 Last Post: 8/24/2008 Member Since: 7/7/2004 |
Oh, FireGoddess, still no ring?  Ugh... I can't believe that! I would be angry and frustrated too.  I never noticed how my pave is set until now... I didn't even realize you could have the prongs oriented differently. Your collage is great... it doesn't get more clear than that!!! I don't understand why they just don't get it! How about I send them my ring along with your pear and say, "This setting... that pear. Understand?" Hehe. I'm crossing my fingers and hopefully they get it right this time. Best wishes! I can't wait to see your ring! ETA: FG~ Are those the pics of my ring you were telling me about?  I think you mentioned to me before that you used some to show your jeweler. Also, the other ring shown is so pretty (the one at the top of the collage)! Is it a Tacori?
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| Posted: 3/15/2005 7:43:57 PM | |
| P: 3/16/2005 12:09:29 PM | |
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FireGoddess Ideal Rock Total Posts: 12,145 Last Post: 3/23/2009 Member Since: 1/25/2005 |
chelle, This is indeed the collage of pics with your ring that I mentioned to you I used for my jeweler. I was very ecstatic when you posted your ring because clearly the first collage of other rings I used did NOT get the message across!!! Your ring is very similar to what I want, but with the head of the bead set Tacori ring on the top of the collage (Yes, that is a Tacori, it's someone's ring on PS and I have never seen a halo like that before. LOVE it.) I wouldn't want you to part with your ring but sometimes I swear, I think it might take exactly what you've said...to just show them a ring and say "copy it!" However there are lots of changes I've made to the design and maybe I've just picked the wrong people to make those changes a reality. The showdown is Friday evening...to be continued...
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| Posted: 3/16/2005 12:09:29 PM | |
| P: 3/16/2005 4:50:53 PM | |
Platinumsmith Ideal Rock Total Posts: 667 Last Post: 9/22/2005 Member Since: 11/26/2004 |
There are three beads holdinbg each stone, not two. One of them is shared.
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| Posted: 3/16/2005 4:50:53 PM | |
| P: 3/16/2005 4:52:47 PM | |
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Platinumsmith Ideal Rock Total Posts: 667 Last Post: 9/22/2005 Member Since: 11/26/2004 |
Had another look. One is shared on the larger melee. It is nice work
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| Posted: 3/16/2005 4:52:47 PM | |
| P: 5/6/2005 5:23:46 PM | |
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Adlers Rough Rock Total Posts: 20 Last Post: 5/27/2005 Member Since: 7/24/2004 |
What kind of cad cam software do you like? Any insight for someone thinking about this? How about training period?
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| Posted: 5/6/2005 5:23:46 PM | |
| P: 5/6/2005 7:34:29 PM | |
Wink Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,032 Last Post: 11/17/2009 Member Since: 5/4/2001 |
There are several good programs on the market right now, Matrix, Jewelscapes, and Art Cam, which is a program also used for cad cam on other things, like aircraft wings, cars, etc, you know, stuff that needs to be accurate down to the 10,000th of an inch or more. Both Jewelscape and Matrix make pretty pictures to look at while ArtCam is a little weak in the preview department but very strong in the send it to the mill and let the mill make a wax department. All of them have varying strengths and weaknesses and I would guess but have no knowlege for sure that Matrix and Art Cam are the two leaders in the field. Some of the new prototyping machines can make incredible and complex designs into wax or castable plastic if you happen to have an extra seventy grand or so laying around. Training can be long and arduous or quick, depending on what your mind will wrap itself around. The big problem that I can see is that a guy like me who is NOT a bench jeweler can design something that will give a benchman fits when trying to make it. What you really want is someone who has been a GOOD bench jeweler who is now also GOOD to GREAT at Cad Cam so that he can design for you a piece of jewelry that is also practical to make. Since I am way to old to ever go back and learn to be a good bench jeweler, I have learned to hire (by the job) great cad cam artists who were great benchies in their former lives. I have enclosed a sample of a piece that was created by Cad Cam for one of my clients. The cad program created the design right down to the pointed claw shaped prongs. Wink  Wink Jones |
| Posted: 5/6/2005 7:34:29 PM | |
| P: 5/6/2005 7:35:31 PM | |
Maxine Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,394 Last Post: 10/25/2009 Member Since: 12/6/2004 |
that's one beautiful ring, Wink....
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| Posted: 5/6/2005 7:35:31 PM | |
| P: 5/10/2005 5:14:59 PM | |
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Adlers Rough Rock Total Posts: 20 Last Post: 5/27/2005 Member Since: 7/24/2004 |
Thanks for the info! I will keep that in mind. How do you find someone who is good with a cad/cam? Sometimes carving a wax with that kind of detail is IMPOSSIBLE!!!
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| Posted: 5/10/2005 5:14:59 PM | |
| P: 5/10/2005 5:28:46 PM | |
DiamondLil Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,405 Last Post: 6/1/2006 Member Since: 6/8/2003 |
Date: 5/10/2005 5:14:59 PM Author: Adlers Thanks for the info! I will keep that in mind. How do you find someone who is good with a cad/cam? Sometimes carving a wax with that kind of detail is IMPOSSIBLE!!! I have also learned from experience that even when you have a lovely CAD drawing and a perfect wax, the final product can still be botched by an inexperienced craftsman.  DiamondLil DiamondLil ________________ "Diamonds are nothing more than chunks of coal that stuck to their jobs." |
| Posted: 5/10/2005 5:28:46 PM | |
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