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 » RockyTalky
»  » H&A inscription and all the BS to go along with it, I'm confused.
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H&A inscription and all the BS to go along with it, I'm confused. |
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| P: 3/4/2005 4:44:13 AM | |
moolman Rough Rock Total Posts: 50 Last Post: 11/29/2005 Member Since: 3/3/2005 |
So I'm looking for a VS1-VS2, G, 1.25 or so, ideal cut. I found one on supercert, dbof, and niceice, which I like. All of these are priced a bit over rap prices which is reasonable since they have tons of info and work done on them. I found a local jewerly who also sells the Verragio setting I want. He offered me a diamond with perfect GIA specs: Round 6.87-6.89 x 4.19 1.19c D: 60.9 T: 56 G: thin, faceted C: none P: excellent S: excellent VS2 G FL: none It has the GIA inscription, along with the H&A inscription. The H&A inscription is BS, right, whoever sent in the diamond asked for it to be inscribed. I'm getting a Sarin report on it. Now after punching in the numbers into the HCA and if I get decent results, Do those of you in the know think that it's enough to aleve any worries about good light performance. There's no brillancescope in Los Angeles, I don't think any apprasier has one either. The ones I'm interested on Supercerts, DBOF and NiceIce, all have the brillancescope results that are excellent. When I punch in their numbers into the HCA, I get anywhere from 1.1 to 1.8 which is good. If this stone comes out to the same range, do you think the likelyhood of it being a good light performer is high. The reason I'm considering the stone instead of buying online like I wanted is that I'm getting a combo deal, the diamond at exactly Rap and the verragio ring with big discount, meaning I'll be saving in a sense a good $1000 off the setting because nobody will work with you on the price of the Verragio unless you buy the diamond from them. Thanks Alex |
| Posted: 3/4/2005 4:44:13 AM | |
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There are 26 replies to this message. There are 26 replies on this page. |
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| P: 3/4/2005 7:26:13 AM | |
Rank Amateur Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,547 Last Post: 5/5/2009 Member Since: 2/26/2003 |
It my or may not be BS...but I wonder if the GIA would comment on an inscription if it were totally inappropriate. I'd love to see the looks on their faces when you inscribe "perfect diamond" or "colorless" on a K I1. Or how about "GIA sucks!" or "Give us some cut info you cowards!" I've always said that it is deceptive that "H&A"appears on the report when it is just reporting on the inscription and it is not part of the grade. This was compounded when the labs started doing the inscribing themselves. R/A
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| Posted: 3/4/2005 7:26:13 AM | |
| P: 3/4/2005 7:36:05 AM | |
Lord Summerisle Ideal Rock Total Posts: 859 Last Post: 11/19/2009 Member Since: 12/14/2004 |
The only way to tell if its a H&A is to look at it thought a little viewer - it'll be the pavilion side up which will be most telling. -(ie pointie side up) have a look through the tutorial guides on here about H&A. Its a kind of wooly subject as to what constitutes a true H&A - and standards differ - WhiteFlash, 8*, Venus By Infinity, Superbcert, Hearts on Fire are the ones that spring to mind being up there at the top - going for exacting standards. GIA doesnt grade for patterning - so I'll jump down from the fence the side of the H&A thing was inscribed by someone before GIA recieved it, and GIA comment on the presence of the inscription. Have a look at this one at whiteflash, and see how it compares. If WF say its a H&A - it will be. it also scores 0.9 Ex plus ex in all catergries. a 1.205 G VS2 A Cut Above H&A. I can understand the thing with thinking your getting a good combo deal - if you are thats great - but just make sure your not being compromised in other departments that you wouldnt be happy with - not saying your are or aint... just make sure. the Brilliantscope is a subjective one too... some love it, some have their doubts over its abilities. An both sides put there views accross on here too. it's another tool for assessing a diamond... but doesnt eclipse the best tool - your eyes. HCA - yeah - i think the jist is - under 2, your gettin a good performer - beyond that, its splitting hairs, and down to your eyes. _____________________ |
| Posted: 3/4/2005 7:36:05 AM | |
| P: 3/4/2005 8:10:11 AM | |
pqcollectibles Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,441 Last Post: 6/18/2005 Member Since: 2/23/2003 |
I found one on supercert, dbof, and niceice, which I like. All of these are priced a bit over rap prices which is reasonable since they have tons of info and work done on them. You can't even begin to know what Rap is on those diamonds. The Rap Report is an insider's trading guide with many variables and nuances affecting the actual price. The simplest way to explain it would be for you to read the info at the following link: http://www.niceice.com/raptrap.htm The H&A inscription is BS, right, whoever sent in the diamond asked for it to be inscribed. The diamond was inscribed before it was submitted to GIA. GIA noted the H&A inscription on the Cert as a part of the description of the diamond. GIA does not grade for the H&A patterns. Unfortunately, the H&A designation is used a lot as a marketing ploy. The diamond may or may not truly be an H&A. The reason I'm considering the stone instead of buying online like I wanted is that I'm getting a combo deal, the diamond at exactly Rap and the verragio ring with big discount, meaning I'll be saving in a sense a good $1000 off the setting because nobody will work with you on the price of the Verragio unless you buy the diamond from them. You answered your own question/concern right there. If the Jeweler can work with you on the price of a designer setting, he/she is making money on the deal elsewhere,......... Like the price of THE DIAMOND.  Why use a big word when a diminutive word would be succinct! |
| Posted: 3/4/2005 8:10:11 AM | |
| P: 3/4/2005 9:09:03 AM | |
Regular Guy Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,315 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 7/7/2004 |
Rank Amateur, Not sure if you or PQ are correct as to who did or is likely to have made the inscription. (PQ, GIA does make inscriptions, and RA, others do, too). Mainly, though, love your comments. GIA is supposed to be getting better soon, I hear (here). Moolman, Sounds like your head is on straight to me re the things you're considering...though I can't finesse for you which factors are sufficient for you to review. I will say, that if you feel LA appraisers are not helpful, how readily would you consider using one at a distance? You can use the phone, and to the extent you're driven by the need for 3rd party info, it can be available, though you may not be in the office also to witness it. Best, Ira (Ruffles have Ridges) Z. |
| Posted: 3/4/2005 9:09:03 AM | |
| P: 3/4/2005 9:36:54 AM | |
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pqcollectibles Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,441 Last Post: 6/18/2005 Member Since: 2/23/2003 |
Date: 3/4/2005 9  93 AMAuthor: Regular Guy Rank Amateur, Not sure if you or PQ are correct as to who did or is likely to have made the inscription. (PQ, GIA does make inscriptions, and RA, others do, too). Mainly, though, love your comments. GIA is supposed to be getting better soon, I hear (here). Moolman, Sounds like your head is on straight to me re the things you're considering...though I can't finesse for you which factors are sufficient for you to review. I will say, that if you feel LA appraisers are not helpful, how readily would you consider using one at a distance? You can use the phone, and to the extent you're driven by the need for 3rd party info, it can be available, though you may not be in the office also to witness it. Best, You are right, RG. I forgot that the labs will inscribe a diamond,........... UPON REQUEST. GIA does not currently grade H&A patterns tho. The inscription, in this case, was either placed on the girdle by some one else prior to submission, or at the request of the submitter, and simply noted in the comments on the GIA Cert. The pricing premium difference between a comparable AGS0 and an H&A in this case roughly equals the difference in the "deal" being offered on the designer setting. While the diamond may be a great performer, don't be fooled by the "deal" on the setting. One cannot assume this is an apples to apples comparison without independent verification that the diamond truly is an H&A stone. Moolman~ If you could provide crown and pavillion angles from a Sarin report, you'll get more informed opinions on the diamond. 
Why use a big word when a diminutive word would be succinct! |
| Posted: 3/4/2005 9:36:54 AM | |
| P: 3/4/2005 10:37:43 AM | |
Paul-Antwerp Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,902 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 9/3/2002 |
I think that you are all answering in the wrong way to Alex's question, and that you are concentrating more on the title of the thread, and not on the contents of his post. Reading his thread, I have the impression that he has thoroughly done his homework, and that he found a jeweler, who is honestly trying to work with him. To start, that is a very good situation. Upon reception of the Sarin-measurement, he will put the data in HCA, and I would advise Alex to also personally check the H&A-image and the Idealscope. Then, we arrive at the point where this particular jeweler probably cannot assist the consumer anymore, in a sense that he does not have extra tools, and probably does not have an extensive inventory to compare with. The three e-vendors mentioned have gained a reputation of being extremely meticulous in their purchases, and this particular jeweler cannot show such a track-record. As a supplier, I would love to work with such a jeweler, because he seems to be doing all the right things, and we could support him in gaining the necessary comfort-level, so that a consumer is sure that he is comparing apples to apples. As a consumer however, it is a difficult situation, because even if this jeweler is doing his utmost, it is extremely difficult to assess whether he reaches the absolutely highest level of expertise. Live long, Paul Slegers |
| Posted: 3/4/2005 10:37:43 AM | |
| P: 3/4/2005 11:20:35 AM | |
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pqcollectibles Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,441 Last Post: 6/18/2005 Member Since: 2/23/2003 |
Point well take, Paul. It is great that this poster has found a local B&M willing to work for and with him. And, I wasn't suggesting the poster dismiss the local jeweler out of hand. I wanted him/her aware that the "deal" being offered may not be as cut and dry as it seems. He/She needs further info to determine if the pricing structure comparison is valid.
Why use a big word when a diminutive word would be succinct! |
| Posted: 3/4/2005 11:20:35 AM | |
| P: 3/4/2005 12:05:06 PM | |
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moolman Rough Rock Total Posts: 50 Last Post: 11/29/2005 Member Since: 3/3/2005 |
Thanks folks, I posted this late last night and I'm going for another round on Hill St. in downtown today so I'm glad I got some more infor before heading out again. Need to buy a diamond ASAP since it takes Verragio at least 2 weeks to make the ring. For the pricing, to explain further about the $1000 discount. I showed the jeweler the prices I got from all the online guys and what they had. He called downtown LA to find a comparable stone, how do I know it's Downtown LA, later that same day, I met him on the 7th floor of the Hill St jewerly building in the hallway. Anyway, he saw my prices and cut down to the chase offered me full Rap for the diamond and initially $200 off the setting. I further haggled him down another $300 and no sales tax, if I paid in cash, thus the $1000 savings. This was after a bit of negotiation. At this point, I did not know I was getting Rap for the diamond. I had no idea, how I found out was, I took his GIA report, along with all the others online, went to Downtown LA and started hunting. A couple of the dealers started freaking out about the price because it was too low but they would match, 3 separate dealers showed me the Rap sheet with the price and all had the this weeks date on it and the same price so unless they are getting together and fudging the numbers, it seems legit. I understand the Rap sheet is a very loose diamond pricing guide, when I say I got the regular Rap price I meant that I got my price for the color and clarity and carat range (1.00-1.49) and then multiplied it by the acutal number of carats. Without getting into the nuances of how the Rap works, I figure from what I read that if a consumer can get regular Rap price for extrememly well cut diamond, then it's a very good deal. Am I off base on this one? Also, a bunch of dealers tried to sell me really bad cuts at the same prices. Yeah, Paul Slegers has hit it on the head, my local jewerler has done what he could on the diamond, getting me a sarin and allowing a 3 day buy back so I can get an appraisal. I guess, I would like him to have all the machines that the online guys do, so I can compare apples to apples. I'll post the Sarin later and hopefully some people can give me their thoughts on the diamond from that alone. Thanks Alex
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| Posted: 3/4/2005 12:05:06 PM | |
| P: 3/4/2005 3:08:33 PM | |
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pqcollectibles Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,441 Last Post: 6/18/2005 Member Since: 2/23/2003 |
Without getting into the nuances of how the Rap works, I figure from what I read that if a consumer can get regular Rap price for extrememly well cut diamond, then it's a very good deal. Am I off base on this one? Yes, you could be. The "comparable" diamonds you posted for comparison purposes are Cream of the Crop, Super Douper Loupers, known good performers. The diamond you are considering is basically a pig in a poke at this point. Not all Excellent/Excellent GIA Certed diamonds are the same class as the diamonds you are using for price comparison purposes. Excellent Polish speaks to the finish detail and has little bearing on the actual optical performance of the diamond. Most times, Excellent Symmetry indicates the diamond will be a good performer, but not always. Just like not all H&A's are Ideals, and not all Ideals are good performers. Without further info, you can't really compare. Why use a big word when a diminutive word would be succinct! |
| Posted: 3/4/2005 3:08:33 PM | |
| P: 3/4/2005 3:31:13 PM | |
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moolman Rough Rock Total Posts: 50 Last Post: 11/29/2005 Member Since: 3/3/2005 |
pqcollectibles, I understand what you are saying. How about this, if I take it the diamond to an appraiser, I was thinking of Charles Cormona in Downtown Los Angeles, would he be able to tell me if this diamond stacks up well against the ones he's seen that supercert, niceice, etc sell. He doesn't have a sarin, brillancescope, etc, etc. Do appraisers only tell you that the stone matches the Cert or do they do more and try to tell you as much info as the mentioned sites. Thanks
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| Posted: 3/4/2005 3:31:13 PM | |
| P: 3/4/2005 3:40:00 PM | |
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pqcollectibles Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,441 Last Post: 6/18/2005 Member Since: 2/23/2003 |
Appraisers can provide a variety of levels of service. You can have a Cert match done rather inexpensively. More sophisticated testing will cost more. If you want an independent Sarin run, the stone will need to be loose. I am not familiar with the appraiser you mentioned. You might search old threads and see if anyone else has used his services. If you will highlight the Resources tab at the top of the page, and click on appraisers, you can find a list of PScope approved appraisers in California. One may be near you.
Why use a big word when a diminutive word would be succinct! |
| Posted: 3/4/2005 3:40:00 PM | |
| P: 3/4/2005 4:06:57 PM | |
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moolman Rough Rock Total Posts: 50 Last Post: 11/29/2005 Member Since: 3/3/2005 |
Here's the info I got, it's from a Megascope - OGI Systems LTD. Est weight: 1.185 Diam: 6.88(6.87-6.90) [0.3%] TD: 60.6 4.17mm CA: 34.9 (34.6 -35.4) CH: 15.2 (15.0-15.3) PA: 40.8 (40.7-40.8) PD: 43.1 (42.9-43.2) C: 0.3 V.Small TS: 56.2 (55.9-56.8) GT: 1.2 (1.0-1.4) Thin P: 0 In the HCA, it gets 1.4, Excellent, Excellent, Excellent, Very Good. So what are your thoughts. Thanks Alex
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| Posted: 3/4/2005 4:06:57 PM | |
| P: 3/4/2005 5:23:25 PM | |
noobie Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,318 Last Post: 9/21/2007 Member Since: 3/3/2004 |
Alex, I think that stone has very nice numbers and that your local jeweler has accomodated you very well. Even though, the HCA, BS, IS, ISee2 are all useful tools of in judging a diamond, how it looks to you will still be the indicator. That being said, one of the challenges that most consumers face is an appropriate benchmark of perfomance. Most of us haven't seen enough super duper and so so stones to have a good reference point. Have you had a chance to look at super performance diamonds, ecen expensive branded ones such as HoF, LK to get a reference? You can use them as a guide. If I were in your situation, I go with the local guy and take it to Charles if Charles has indeed appraised the Superbcerts etc, and has good references. Ask him directly how your diamond compares with the best H&A's out there and if it is lacking in any way. Maybe one of experts will chime in to comment on the variation in CAs and if it even a cause for concern. Good luck P.S. This recommendation for the local guy comes from an eight time on-line diamond purchaser.
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| Posted: 3/4/2005 5:23:25 PM | |
| P: 3/5/2005 1:48:10 AM | |
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moolman Rough Rock Total Posts: 50 Last Post: 11/29/2005 Member Since: 3/3/2005 |
Noobie, Thanks for the advice. Yeah, I have no idea how sparkly or how a real good light performer is supposed to look, so I was planning on doing just that. I will take the diamond to Charles who does business with Supercert and ask him his professional opinion about the brillance, light etc. because the numbers seem very perfect but I still want that peace of mind that paper brings. I know some are against this but I'll stil sleep better at night. Alex
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| Posted: 3/5/2005 1:48:10 AM | |
| P: 3/5/2005 5:33:46 AM | |
Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,579 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
Sounds good so far - but a bit of table tilt in the crown angles and none in the pavilion (which is a worry) so sym could be out (GIA dont appraise it). Check it with an ideal-scope or look at the start pattern wih a H&A's viewer. Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 3/5/2005 5:33:46 AM | |
| P: 3/5/2005 8:13:58 AM | |
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Paul-Antwerp Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,902 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 9/3/2002 |
Date: 3/5/2005 5:33:46 AM Author: Garry H (Cut Nut) Sounds good so far - but a bit of table tilt in the crown angles and none in the pavilion (which is a worry) so sym could be out (GIA dont appraise it). Check it with an ideal-scope or look at the start pattern wih a H&A's viewer. Hey Garry, Out drinking on Saturday afternoon again? There is absolutely no reason to mention table tilt in this case, all measurements seem absolutely straight. Live long, Paul Slegers |
| Posted: 3/5/2005 8:13:58 AM | |
| P: 3/5/2005 9:07:06 AM | |
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pqcollectibles Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,441 Last Post: 6/18/2005 Member Since: 2/23/2003 |
Definite potential for this diamond to be a good performer. Good idea to follow up the purchase with an independent evaluation to confirm the patterns. Hopefully, the appraiser will confirm you've made a good selection. 
Why use a big word when a diminutive word would be succinct! |
| Posted: 3/5/2005 9:07:06 AM | |
| P: 3/7/2005 7:05:00 AM | |
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Regular Guy Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,315 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 7/7/2004 |
Moolmanm, Garry, Paul and others... Best of wishes as you pursue this. Selfishly, also trying to understand what will make a difference for you. Gary, and others...I see where recent tweaks have come into the turorial here. In the section on symmetry, you write: "The diamond images we have used in this tutorial are mostly symmetrical. But in the real world very few diamonds are perfectly symmetrical, but symmetry is less important to the overall beauty of a diamond than the critical facet proportions. You may never notice any difference between diamonds with excellent or ideal and very good or good symmetry." Should this be much of a concern? If so: a) would the advice to review with an ideal scope or H&A viewer pertain, and also, if he wants to pursue this...b) what is his recourse, exactly. Many thanks. Ira (Ruffles have Ridges) Z. |
| Posted: 3/7/2005 7:05:00 AM | |
| P: 3/7/2005 7:16:23 AM | |
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Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,579 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
Date: 3/5/2005 8:13:58 AM Author: Paul-Antwerp Date: 3/5/2005 5:33:46 AM Author: Garry H (Cut Nut) Sounds good so far - but a bit of table tilt in the crown angles and none in the pavilion (which is a worry) so sym could be out (GIA dont appraise it). Check it with an ideal-scope or look at the start pattern wih a H&A's viewer. Hey Garry, Out drinking on Saturday afternoon again? There is absolutely no reason to mention table tilt in this case, all measurements seem absolutely straight. Live long, Take another look Paul - CA: 34.9 (34.6 -35.4) the pavilion is staraight however - looks like someone might have chased an inclusion out of the crown after polishing? Ira a peek through a scope is enough to tell you if the symmetry is OK. Unless the consumer is seeking symmetry for symmetries and crraftsmanships sake. But at this stage the gIA and AGS cut studies have clearly stated that ultra high symmetry vs very good symmetry is non discernable Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 3/7/2005 7:16:23 AM | |
| P: 3/7/2005 8:31:55 AM | |
Richard Sherwood Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,879 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 9/25/2002 |
Date: 3/4/2005 3:31:13 PM Author: moolman How about this, if I take it the diamond to an appraiser, I was thinking of Charles Cormona in Downtown Los Angeles, Charles Carmona is well known, with an excellent reputation. Rich, Independent GG Appraiser |
| Posted: 3/7/2005 8:31:55 AM | |
| P: 3/7/2005 9:12:33 AM | |
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Regular Guy Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,315 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 7/7/2004 |
Sorry to repeat...I had presumed that, where you say later in the tutorial, Garry...: "symmetry is less important to the overall beauty of a diamond than the critical facet proportions..." that this was consistent with your earlier comments here, where you note: "HCA is not for final "selection" because it does not grade symmetry and minor facets." ...not so much trying to bind you to your words...but trying to understand how most anyone should be able to pursue these elements. For example, if it's interpreting how the minor facets play a function in the performance of the diamond, would Mr. Carmona be able to help Alex, would you, Rich, or would anyone who works for hire on this board be of assist? How important is this, as separate from the broad crown/pavillion angles that have now been assessed, and also, after symmetry may be assessed? Ira (Ruffles have Ridges) Z. |
| Posted: 3/7/2005 9:12:33 AM | |
| P: 3/7/2005 10:41:34 AM | |
JohnQuixote Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,212 Last Post: 5/24/2008 Member Since: 9/9/2004 |
Date: 3/7/2005 7:16:23 AM Author: Garry H (Cut Nut) ...But at this stage the gIA and AGS cut studies have clearly stated that ultra high symmetry vs very good symmetry is non discernable GIA has stated that there is no visible difference in lab-graded symmetry between G, VG and Ex - but it is optical symmetry being discussed here. John |
| Posted: 3/7/2005 10:41:34 AM | |
| P: 3/7/2005 4:21:02 PM | |
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Paul-Antwerp Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,902 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 9/3/2002 |
Date: 3/7/2005 7:16:23 AM Author: Garry H (Cut Nut) Date: 3/5/2005 8:13:58 AM Author: Paul-Antwerp Date: 3/5/2005 5:33:46 AM Author: Garry H (Cut Nut) Sounds good so far - but a bit of table tilt in the crown angles and none in the pavilion (which is a worry) so sym could be out (GIA dont appraise it). Check it with an ideal-scope or look at the start pattern wih a H&A's viewer. Hey Garry, Out drinking on Saturday afternoon again? There is absolutely no reason to mention table tilt in this case, all measurements seem absolutely straight. Live long, Take another look Paul - CA: 34.9 (34.6 -35.4) the pavilion is staraight however - looks like someone might have chased an inclusion out of the crown after polishing? Ira a peek through a scope is enough to tell you if the symmetry is OK. Unless the consumer is seeking symmetry for symmetries and crraftsmanships sake. But at this stage the gIA and AGS cut studies have clearly stated that ultra high symmetry vs very good symmetry is non discernable Hey Garry, If the table were tilted, the Sarin would not measure a straight pavilion anymore. And while a crown angle ranging from 34.6 to 35.4 is not extremely consistent, it is also not bad at all. The difference is so minute that the extremely small inclusion supposedly polished out would not have worsened the total grade of VS2. I agree with your advise to check the stone in an idealscope and possibly an H&A-viewer, but the whole concept of 'table tilt' is not applicable to this example. Live long, Paul Slegers |
| Posted: 3/7/2005 4:21:02 PM | |
| P: 3/7/2005 6:46:30 PM | |
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moolman Rough Rock Total Posts: 50 Last Post: 11/29/2005 Member Since: 3/3/2005 |
Thanks for the advice guys. Well, I finally decided on a diamond, here's the specs: GIA: 1.32c 7.12-7.14x4.29 D: 60.2 T: 57 G: Thin to Medium, Faceted C: none P: Excellent S: Excellent VS2 F FL: Faint Sarin: 1.327c 7.13(7.13-7.15) TD: 60.3 TS: 57.3 CA: 34.0 PA: 40.8 PD: 43.0 CS: 0.6 GM: 1.1 GM: 1.7 GA: 1.4 PG: 0 The HCA comes out to 1.0 Excellent for all 4. My main question is a 1.0 possible? Just curious because the best HCA I found online for supercert, whiteflash, niceice, etc is 1.2 and usually 1.4, just worried the numbers could be fudged to satisfy me. The sarin report looks similar in format to the one used by goodoldgold.com, there is a descrepancy though. On the chart the Crown Angle is 34.0 but on the drawing of the diamond next to the chart the Crown angle is listed as 34.2, which changes the HCA to 1.1, no big deal but that's what make me think, the numbers could be fudged. Any opinions on this? Is a good H&A pattern at all related to the HCA? Thanks Alex
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| Posted: 3/7/2005 6:46:30 PM | |
| P: 3/8/2005 1:39:44 AM | |
Dancing Fire Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,218 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 4/3/2004 |
Moolman don't worry about the hca score as long as its in that 1.0-2.0 range.i have a stone that scores 1.1-1.8 on the hca depending on which sarin report (6 different machine) i want to believe. it is always harder to find a "mind clean" stone than a eye clean stone. |
| Posted: 3/8/2005 1:39:44 AM | |
| P: 3/8/2005 8:19:53 AM | |
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pqcollectibles Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,441 Last Post: 6/18/2005 Member Since: 2/23/2003 |
Hearts and Arrows patterns are caused by internal optical symmetry within the diamond. The patterns are not directly related to the Sarin report. Many decently well cut diamonds will exhibit some sort of H&A patterns but would not be considered true H&A diamonds. Not all Ideals are H&A's and not all H&A's are Ideals. Often, there are Round Ideals in the White Flash Expert Selection that have great patterns. For one reason or another, the patterns were not crisp enough to earn the ACA Brand. There are 8* diamonds with fabulous patterns, that are fantastic performers, and do not have Ideal cut proportions. The HCA is a screening tool to help weed out potential poor performers. Diamonds that score near 2 and below have potential to be good performers and are worth further investigation. From there, score is basically irrelevant. An 0.8 isn't better than a 1.8, as an example. A diamond that scores 1.9 may be THE ONE that appeals to your eye. You may see another diamond that scores 1.1 that does not appeal to you. Diamonds have personalities in the way they perform. There can be 2 diamonds with nearly identical HCA scores that have totally different types of performance. The buyer then has to look at the diamonds and decide which one appeals to them.
Why use a big word when a diminutive word would be succinct! |
| Posted: 3/8/2005 8:19:53 AM | |
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