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 » RockyTalky
»  » true or false ,if i'm looking for a stone with lots of fire i should...
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true or false ,if i'm looking for a stone with lots of fire i should... |
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| P: 2/26/2005 1:19:11 AM | |
Dancing Fire Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,218 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 4/3/2004 |
look for stones with a crown height of near 16% and 54-55% table?
it is always harder to find a "mind clean" stone than a eye clean stone. |
| Posted: 2/26/2005 1:19:11 AM | |
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There are 11 replies to this message. There are 11 replies on this page. |
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| P: 2/26/2005 6:18:14 AM | |
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
Small table should help. The crown height... I'd just keep those angles good by HCA rule. I wonder how this (53% table ACA)  might look. There are a couple dozen ACA withing those limits  Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 2/26/2005 6:18:14 AM | |
| P: 2/26/2005 4:13:52 PM | |
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Dancing Fire Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,218 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 4/3/2004 |
Date: 2/26/2005 6:18:14 AM AnaAuthor: valeria101 Small table should help. The crown height... I'd just keep those angles good by HCA rule. I wonder how this (53% table ACA) might look. There are a couple dozen ACA withing those limits i'm thinking like a 2.5 ct H VS2 but they have gone up so much in the last 15 months.  
it is always harder to find a "mind clean" stone than a eye clean stone. |
| Posted: 2/26/2005 4:13:52 PM | |
| P: 2/27/2005 11:48:58 AM | |
oldminer Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,964 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 9/4/2000 |
People often say they are looking for a diamond with lots of fire. Diamond is not the best source of dispersion, so there are limits to fire in any diamond compared to many other gem materials that do break light up much more readily into spectral colors. The actual visibility of fire is very dependent on the light source the stone is examined under, too. Fire is much less a constant characteristic of faceted diamonds than brilliancy, sparkle and intensity. To say that one wants lots of fire implies one should look at a diamond under the right lighting to create that particular effect, more than saying a big difference from one diamond to the next actually exists in all lighting conditions. Fire is an elusive component, not a constant. Buying a diamond for high fire performance, is probably going to result in some degree of disillusionment when the stone does not appear to perform as well as one had hoped once the lighting is different. I'd suggest one goes for high light return combined with the right mix of sparkle and intensity, in order to obtain a "best looking" diamond that nearly always looks super. In certain lighting those high performance diamonds will have a good amount of colored light return, fire, too. Fire is a component of the other three characteristics, but probably should not be used as the determinant in the selection of a particular diamond. It isn't bad to desire "fire", but it is not the component of appearance that creates or confirms beauty or performance. No doubt, there may be differing opinions on this mostly created by our lack of standard terminology or depth of understanding of this subject. I am only trying to help, not create a problem for anyone or anyone's product sales pitch. There is always room for further discussion. David S. Atlas |
| Posted: 2/27/2005 11:48:58 AM | |
| P: 2/27/2005 12:24:03 PM | |
strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003 |
When it comes to RB diamonds I agree 100% with Dave. When it comes to asschers I disagree. With them once a great pattern is found then the crown height is considered to see if its going to have a lot of fire to add some pop in light conditions where the pattern doesnt stand out as much. ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K |
| Posted: 2/27/2005 12:24:03 PM | |
| P: 2/27/2005 12:43:09 PM | |
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valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
Date: 2/27/2005 11:48:58 AM Author: oldminer I'd suggest one goes for high light return combined with the right mix of sparkle and intensity, in order to obtain a 'best looking' diamond that nearly always looks super. In certain lighting those high performance diamonds will have a good amount of colored light return, fire, too. Fire is a component of the other three characteristics, but probably should not be used as the determinant in the selection of a particular diamond.  Perhaps this should go into the tutorial somewhere. There's quite some free space under the "fire" department Anyway. No doubt top light return plays up any kind of lighting and spot ligths will bring up fire over brilliance (Garry's terms). These two guys below were photographed under matching light conditions (inside the Bscope box). One is white, one all colors. Why's happening there ?   Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 2/27/2005 12:43:09 PM | |
| P: 2/27/2005 5:51:23 PM | |
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Dancing Fire Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,218 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 4/3/2004 |
Date: 2/27/2005 12:43 Ana 9 PMAuthor: valeria101 Date: 2/27/2005 11:48:58 AM Author: oldminer I'd suggest one goes for high light return combined with the right mix of sparkle and intensity, in order to obtain a 'best looking' diamond that nearly always looks super.  In certain lighting those high performance diamonds will have a good amount of colored light return, fire, too.  Fire is a component of the other three characteristics, but probably should not be used as the determinant in the selection of a particular diamond. Perhaps this should go into the tutorial somewhere. There's quite some free space under the 'fire' department Anyway. No doubt top light return plays up any kind of lighting and spot ligths will bring up fire over brilliance (Garry's terms). These two guys below were photographed under matching light conditions (inside the Bscope box). One is white, one all colors. Why's happening there ? i'll always take the one with color sparkles anyday. it is always harder to find a "mind clean" stone than a eye clean stone. |
| Posted: 2/27/2005 5:51:23 PM | |
| P: 2/27/2005 5:58:54 PM | |
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Dancing Fire Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,218 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 4/3/2004 |
oldminer i just thought looking for a rb with smaller (54-55%) table would increase my chance of getting more color light return...no? it is always harder to find a "mind clean" stone than a eye clean stone. |
| Posted: 2/27/2005 5:58:54 PM | |
| P: 2/27/2005 7:23:23 PM | |
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oldminer Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,964 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 9/4/2000 |
It my belief that colored light return is more dependent on the light source than the cut itself. Surely, these two thing interact, but light is a great variable and fire is not a constant...
David S. Atlas |
| Posted: 2/27/2005 7:23:23 PM | |
| P: 2/27/2005 7:35:32 PM | |
Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,911 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002 |
DF, some have said that smaller tables will give you a bit more fire..others note you need a slightly deeper depth possible paired with that small table, but still good angles aka well-cut...but then yet others such as Dave note there is more to it. Hard to really know--I don't think there is a foolproof method of searching. I have seen HCA give FIC results for diamonds with good angles and something like 53% table and a 62+% depth..but it's probably not as cut and dry as looking for just the numbers. Good luck. ________________________________ |
| Posted: 2/27/2005 7:35:32 PM | |
| P: 2/27/2005 7:44:21 PM | |
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Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,911 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002 |
FYI..I ran some #'s through the HCA... Here is a possible combo for what it gives a FIC score to. 53% table 64% depth 36.5 crown angle 40 pav angle Score 1.1 EX FIC EX EX EX G Note that it got all EX except for Spread, which is only good. The depth on this stone coupled with the small table probably make it look smaller in terms of carat weight. So as opposed to a superideal with all the right mix of numbers and angles and diameter...if this was a 2.5c stone it may look more like a 2.25c superideal? Not sure if that ratio is spot on, but you get the point. So you may have to sacrifice a bit of carat weight to get that FIC designation. I find that my well-cut ideal stone sparkles like it should in various conditions, I see lots of fire and scint in low light, lots of white brilliance in diffused or indirect light, I like the combinations it throws at me. While I wouldn't mind seeing a FIC in person, I don't know that I'd JUST want to see lots of fire. When I had my BIC stone, it showed white brilliance and white sparkles almost 90% of the time with hardly ever any colored rainbow fire. So just as I didn't like just the white brilliance, I probably wouldn't want just the fire and not alot of white sparkles. I like the mix that my ideal cut affords me. Something to consider... In terms of the HCA and numbers, you can drop the crown angle to 36 and have it still score 1.2 EX , up the pav to around 40.4 or similar and still have it score under 2. So there is some leeway, you may take these numbers and look for something similar if you have the time..and inclination. ________________________________ |
| Posted: 2/27/2005 7:44:21 PM | |
| P: 2/28/2005 2:16:30 PM | |
QueenMum Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,971 Last Post: 10/28/2009 Member Since: 2/13/2003 |
Date: 2/27/2005 11:48:58 AM Author: oldminer Fire is an elusive component, not a constant. Buying a diamond for high fire performance, is probably going to result in some degree of disillusionment when the stone does not appear to perform as well as one had hoped once the lighting is different. When I choose between 2 diamonds with a nice black and red Idealscope pattern, I buy the one that has more fire under spot light. Of course, I don't expect the diamond to throw rainbows at me under diffuse light. Another thing I try before choosing between 2 well cut diamonds is looking at them from a 3-4 meters distance under spot light. It often will show that one of the 2 diamonds looks bigger (thanks to the fire and the scintillation) and that will catch my rigt eye (the left one is blind  ).
Stephan |
| Posted: 2/28/2005 2:16:30 PM | |
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