1st Hearts Picture by Wink - Thanks John Quixote

_____________________
I Post Therefore I Am
I am no Expert (I'm not a drip under pressure ;) )
Seek Someone who is for better info

_____________________
I Post Therefore I Am
I am no Expert (I'm not a drip under pressure ;) )
Seek Someone who is for better info

Attention Garry Holloway!  Fresh off the PS wire...Demand for standardized photo system for patterning escalates...Precision geeks on the rise...Alert!...Alert! 

Wink,

Thanks for the comments.  I also had a great time on the phone with you today.

On to bid'ness...

As we know, what constitutes “acceptable” for Hearts & Arrows is arguable. Perhaps one distant day labs will become involved in the grading of Hearts & Arrows cut quality, but for now interested consumers will educate themselves and decide what level of quality is right for their circumstances – if they are even into this level of precision.

Usual disclaimer:  A non-H&A with proven proportions may be as beautiful as a H&A.  Near-True H&A patterning may be as beautiful as True H&A patterning.

Usual “however:” We are finding that minor facets constructed to specific measurements within sets of proven major proportions result in a particular character of beauty and consistent performance over a broad range of lighting conditions.

(Disclaimers out of the way)

On to your diamond, Wink.  Hope you don’t mind – I ran this checklist on it...

Total uniformity and symmetry in both hearts and arrows patterns. 
    Decent.  Patterns at 2, 5, 7 & 11 are slightly larger.
    They are consistent with each other, though.  More on that later.
Pattern is well centered.
    Fine.
No broken, split or different sized hearts. 
    Ok.  No breaks.  The tiny splits are acceptable (see here and scroll down).    
    Different sized hearts?  See above.  The 4 larger patterns are consistent.  
    Not exacting, but not poor.  Having 1 or 2 obviously larger patterns would put it further "out."
Hearts slightly separate from arrowheads above. 
    Yes.  Note patterns at 12, 3, 6 & 9 have slightly longer LGF lengths.
    This slight LGF inconsistency is also connected to the different sized hearts.
No misshaped arrowheads, broken shafts or misalignment of shaft to head. 
    Need to see Ideal Scope or Arrows image.
    Suspect it is not a problem:  Precise arrows are a result of good pavilion patterning.
    As Cutter the Brian sez:  "It's all in the hearts."
Arrow points all meet the girdle.
    Need to see Ideal Scope or Arrows image.
No unevenness caused by extreme variance.
    Do you have a full Sarin Wink? (details of major and minor - all angles?)  It would tell more about the 4 slightly different sized hearts and notable variance.
No distortion caused by facet yaw.
    We need to be careful here...

There is slight asymmetry at the points of several heart patterns.  This is seen in many stones.  Though it has a similar appearance to yaw it is not necessarily that:  A heart point is a joining of reflections from 2 adjacent main pavilion facets (see diagram below).  The precision to which they overlap and even the degree of meet point symmetry determines the crispness at that reflective joining.  I will post another example that has yaw and LGFs that are too long.

Lab grade of Ideal (GIA Ex) in symmetry (meet point symmetry)
Lab grade of Ideal (GIA Ex) in polish with great luster
    Wink?

Note that GIA has determined that there is no visible difference in grades of G, VG and Ex.  However, for our purposes the difference in G and Ex for meet point or indexed symmetry could influence the asymmetry we observed at the heart points.

Do you have the Ideal Scope or Arrows image?

Here is a diagram of how 2 reflections create a heart's point:  The main pavilion facet reflects on the opposite side and the lower girdle half separates the arrowhead above the heart.

John

__________________________

John Pollard

Whiteflash Director of Education 2004-2007

John

__________________________

John Pollard

Whiteflash Director of Education 2004-2007

John

__________________________

John Pollard

Whiteflash Director of Education 2004-2007

Wink Jones
GG
Winfield's/High Performance Diamonds

Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT

HCA and Ideal-scope developer

http://www.ideal-scope.com and
http://www.HollowayDiamonds.com.au

Wink Jones
GG
Winfield's/High Performance Diamonds

John

__________________________

John Pollard

Whiteflash Director of Education 2004-2007

John

__________________________

John Pollard

Whiteflash Director of Education 2004-2007

Date: 2/26/2005 1:46:48 AM
Author: JohnQuixote
Thanks for chiming IN(from)DIA, Garry.  Ow-yar goin?

Date: 2/26/2005 12:52:19 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Most better manfacturers here in India all have Helium, and since it is now clear to me that most H&A's diamonds are manufactured here in Surat, often with Janak Mistry's supervision of processes, it is obvious that the scan should be done in the factory. 

In the future I can see that at time of manufacture idealscope and realistic photo's will be done then.  Dealers will buy the stones with the service done here with less expensive labour costs and better equipment than is typically available elsewhere. It is possible that Pricescope may be about to elevate to another level John.

That day is likely a ways off though, don't you think?    Also, how much of this can realistically be done before it begins cutting people out of the process?  The ramifications vertical alignment of so much of the process would have on producer to supplier to dealer relations would be brutal...  Would factories then go throw fresh Helium'd, Gem Adviser'd, Imagem-graded, IdealScope, Clarity-photo'd, H&A photo'd diamonds up on a site and allow dealers - or anyone - to order like customers do now from dealers?  The pinch is on already.

Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT

HCA and Ideal-scope developer

http://www.ideal-scope.com and
http://www.HollowayDiamonds.com.au

Wink - Scanners like Sarin measure using silhouettes.  The problem is that there is also azimuth to a facet, not just basic inclination and Sarin doesn't get this.  The Helium is more accurate because it measures angle of inclination and azimuth so it picks up smaller distortions and details.  It comes up with a 3D model and even reports things like extra facets. 

In addition to the obvious large-scale implications of improved accuracy, Helium could also prove useful with the small but pertinent-to-us details of facet yaw.

Interesting read John:

I have read in the past that sarin measuring  using silhouettes have a hard time differentiating between the upper girdle and bezel facets. Some diamonds scanned display  such a minimal difference between  the average upper girdles and the bezels, there’s a difficult time distinguishing the separation of facets and where the junctions of the UG facets occur. Because of the indistinct facet junctions the facets seem to be merged into one curved facet.

Can traditional silhouette sarin scanning technology be improved to alter this flaw in scanning?

Josh Rioux
Haines, Alaska
*The Colored Gemstone Nut*

Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT

HCA and Ideal-scope developer

http://www.ideal-scope.com and
http://www.HollowayDiamonds.com.au

Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian]

_____________________
I Post Therefore I Am
I am no Expert (I'm not a drip under pressure ;) )
Seek Someone who is for better info

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

I suspect that Gary H is indicating that he thinks someone ought to set up a site to sell those wonderfull diamonds from India, using Helium information as part of the process.  I also suspect that Gary H is indicating that this could somehow be connected to Pricescope.

Pricescope by definition is an educational site, and specifically stays away from direct sales.

However, that does not mean that there cannot be a way to set-up something similar to some of the better diamond sites (I always like the Blue Nile search engine).

This is just speculation of course, but after playing with nuetrons for 4 years perhaps it is time to move on to something else.  It certainly cannot be any higher stress than working in a Nuclear Power Plant, nor longer hours.

I am principally a tech head (Engineer), and have purposely stayed away from getting detailed involved with how the optics of the cuts work (it would be really easy for me to get sucked into that - but as a consumer not relevant and a huge time waster).

No promises, but if someone is looking to put together an organization to market those diamonds and provide customer service. Let me know and we can talk about the possibilities and where I might fit in.

Perry

John

__________________________

John Pollard

Whiteflash Director of Education 2004-2007

Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT

HCA and Ideal-scope developer

http://www.ideal-scope.com and
http://www.HollowayDiamonds.com.au

John

__________________________

John Pollard

Whiteflash Director of Education 2004-2007

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Wink Jones
GG
Winfield's/High Performance Diamonds

Wink Jones
GG
Winfield's/High Performance Diamonds

Wink Jones
GG
Winfield's/High Performance Diamonds

........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K

Date: 2/26/2005 28:35 PM
Author: strmrdr
Lets see if I can avoid making a fool out of myself.
Let me start by saying this is a beautiful near h&a Diamond.
The crown angle number is a little high at 35.3 to be considered super ideal in my opinion.

Now lets tear it apart a little :}
Lets start with the girdle facets which I put blue marks on and circled.
They are a little uneven.
If you look at the ideal-scope image the white leakage marks around the arrows are different sizes and different distance from the arrows.
I suspect that the girdle on this one is a little wavey.
But this isnt being marketed as a super-ideal so no biggie.

edit: woops just noticed I missed a tick mark or 2 on the top photo but I think its enough to get the idea.

Wink Jones
GG
Winfield's/High Performance Diamonds

........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K

........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K

Wink Jones
GG
Winfield's/High Performance Diamonds