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Diamond Color ... need help!

P: 1/20/2005 1:25:43 AM
jrhee Rough Rock Total Posts: 11 Last Post: 7/22/2005 Member Since: 1/2/2005	Hi - I am deciding on a diamond. The GIA report shows this diamond as a F. When comparing the diamond, the jeweler showed me the rock upside down on a white platform. On it, he also had a E color. I was pretty surprised that I can see the color difference between the E and F. Aren't they both suppose to be colorless? Is that only when they are right side up and not upside down? Also, he had a G color next to it. The F looked very much like the G but when I asked, he said that the G had some flourescence and was probably "punished" to a G color when in should've been a F. Does this sound right?
Posted: 1/20/2005 1:25:43 AM

There are 9 replies to this message. There are 9 replies on this page.

P: 1/20/2005 1:55:53 AM
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003	Well... they may be "colorless" but those three grades must be distinguishable somehow otherwise GIA's graders would not be able to set them apart, I would think. The question remains - does the diamonds' look culet up on white paper matter for jewelry use ? Does it matter to you ? I am a bit puzzled about the fluorescent G. Fluorescence should make it look whiter anyway, but I am not familiar with the grading practice of downgrading color because of fluorescence. It may be so, but this is the first time I hear about it regarding colorless diamonds - it was mentioned about fancy color diamonds so... why not ! A recent thred went into some detail about color grading and fluorescence (link). You might want to take a look. Hope the 0.2 worth helps a bit Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian]
Posted: 1/20/2005 1:55:53 AM

P: 1/20/2005 2:16:08 AM
qtiekiki Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,666 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 11/14/2004	I read somewhere that fluorescence might make a colorless stone looks warmer than it actually is under certain lights. It kind of has an opposite effect on E, F stones than on H, I, and lower grade stone. Since the fluorescence is bluish, it gives colorless stone a hint of color under certain lights. Maybe an expert can confirm this???? __________________________ "New Year's Eve is amateur night and resolutions are for fools." - Phil Jackson
Posted: 1/20/2005 2:16:08 AM

P: 1/20/2005 2:21:46 AM
jrhee Rough Rock Total Posts: 11 Last Post: 7/22/2005 Member Since: 1/2/2005	Thanks for the input... how about the fact that there was a noticeable difference in color between the E and F color when turned upside down? is the colorless suppose to mean from the right side up?
Posted: 1/20/2005 2:21:46 AM

P: 1/20/2005 5:39:05 AM
perry Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,782 Last Post: 11/16/2009 Member Since: 9/19/2004	There are two possible explainations for the color difference. Either one - or both - may be what you are seeing. 1) The claim that D-E-F is "Colorless" is a marketing ploy. D may in fact be colorless, but E and F clearly have color to a trained or sensitive eye. Please be aware that many of the larger diamonds (>1 carat) are probably graded by several labs and the wholesaler then sells the diamond with the highest color "paper" they get. See the Pricescope lab grading survey. Note that the store should also have a master color stone set: Compare the color to the master stones. 2) Many a jewelery store seems to claim a higher color, and a better clarity, than actually exist (or would be graded by a major lab). Afterall.... Diamond grading is "subjective" and "Their" grade is E (where AGS might grade it as H). I have seen examples of this. What gets me is the VS clarity diamonds that I can see flaws in with my naked eye from 2 feet away....(Heck in one example I think I could see the flaw from 4 ft away...). Needless to say, I would not actually buy anything from such a store... Note that if they don't have (or can't seem to find) a master color stone set -- then they are almost certainly operating as per my #2 option. Perry
Posted: 1/20/2005 5:39:05 AM

P: 1/20/2005 9:11:19 AM
lmurden Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,101 Last Post: 6/4/2006 Member Since: 5/3/2004	My co-worker has an F/VS1 set in platinum and it is ICY White! LM
Posted: 1/20/2005 9:11:19 AM

P: 1/20/2005 11:41:58 AM
codex57 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,492 Last Post: 1/21/2008 Member Since: 12/18/2004	That's how they grade the color of stones. I think it's called a grading trough or something like that. One of my jewelers showed me the exact same thing. You have to be able to tell teh difference somehow. Otherwise, how are you going to have 3 different grades of "colorless"? It's good for jewelers to show you this method... but for them. B/c once you start to see teh difference (which you wouldn't have just by normal face up inspection of the stone), you're tempted to buy the higher color grade which costs more money.
Posted: 1/20/2005 11:41:58 AM

P: 1/20/2005 1:30:15 PM
kevinraja Cut Rock Total Posts: 275 Last Post: 3/22/2005 Member Since: 10/18/2004	My co-worker has an F/VS1 set in platinum and it is ICY White! LM LM, Have you looked at an E or a D color stone, maybe if you do, you might change you mind about your friends F color stone. To answer jrhee's question, ofcourse you will be able to distinguish between a D, E, and a F color stones easily when they all are placed upside down (table down). That is why a D stone is pricier than an E, and an F. The difference will be much less distinguishable when thye all are table up, which is how you look at a diamond on someone's hand. Don't worry too much about the diamond being table down.
Posted: 1/20/2005 1:30:15 PM

P: 1/20/2005 3:23:59 PM
lmurden Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,101 Last Post: 6/4/2006 Member Since: 5/3/2004	kevinraja, I have seen an E and an F color round diamonds that are set in platinum and they look very icy to me. I have a well cut I color diamond and there really isn't that much of a difference other than the fact that the E and F color diamonds are set in platinum and my I color solitaire engagement ring is set in platinum prongs and 18k yellow gold so it looks a tiny bit different. I must say that getting a colorless diamond was not that important for me, but that is me. My point to jrhee was that the F should look great and that he doesn't necessarily have to go up to an E! Hope this answers your question. LM
Posted: 1/20/2005 3:23:59 PM

P: 1/20/2005 5:09:31 PM
codex57 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,492 Last Post: 1/21/2008 Member Since: 12/18/2004	It's kind of an eye of the beholder thing. You may think the colors are all about the same. Other people are pickier about the color. Same goes for inclusions and what is "eye clean." Some people can spot inclusions better than others. The point is that it should be judged table up b/c that's how people look at a diamond when it's set. I wouldn't worry too much about how it looks upside down and compared to other stones. I mean, really, how many times are you going to run into someone who's going to compare your fully exposed stone with their fully exposed stone (prolly on solitaires with only 4 prongs), flip them upside down, and then compare color and inclusions?
Posted: 1/20/2005 5:09:31 PM

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