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princess table and depth %-need help w/prices

P: 6/14/2002 9:05:39 PM
dolemite Rough Rock Total Posts: 5 Last Post: 6/26/2002 Member Since: 6/11/2002	ive got my eyes on a princess E, VS1, VG polish, good symmetry, 74%table, 75 depth, .06 from being 1:1 on the length/width...it is at a retail store and they quoted me a price of 9K which ithought was outrageous. what are some criticisms that I could bring to the table to negotiate down the price. also, the retailer said the Sarin scope is useless for fancy cut diamonds (princess in my case) i also amlooking at a 1:1 princess, H VS2, good polish& symmetry and they were asing 6k which i thought was too high b/c...also, the table was 83% and depth 77%. the guy told me the 83 table is not unusual b/c it is a high quality diamond and its really not "spread," which I am unsure. i stared at the diamond for about an hour and am still unsure about this table and depth % thing for princess cuts. is low 70s ideal table % for princess, whats the concensus for table/depth for princess in a 1:1 cut... need help, ive only got till the 29th..
Posted: 6/14/2002 9:05:39 PM

There are 13 replies to this message. There are 13 replies on this page.

P: 6/15/2002 8:27:52 AM
Pricescope Administrator Total Posts: 8,265 Last Post: 1/5/2008 Member Since: 1/1/2000	Dolemite These liks could be useful: Princess Chart Fancy Shaped Diamonds What is the carat weight of your stones? Pricescope
Posted: 6/15/2002 8:27:52 AM

P: 6/15/2002 9:29:01 AM
Pricescope Administrator Total Posts: 8,265 Last Post: 1/5/2008 Member Since: 1/1/2000	---------------- also, the retailer said the Sarin scope is useless for fancy cut diamonds (princess in my case) ---------------- As you can see AGA chart uses crown height which you can get from Sarin or Ogi report. Running Sarin measurements takes 2 minutes. Ideal-Scope also can help checking the cut, see Ideal-Scope for Fancy Shapes Pricescope
Posted: 6/15/2002 9:29:01 AM

P: 6/16/2002 11:38:15 AM
dolemite Rough Rock Total Posts: 5 Last Post: 6/26/2002 Member Since: 6/11/2002	---------------- On 6/15/2002 8:27:52 AM Dolemite These liks could be useful: Princess Chart Fancy Shaped Diamonds What is the carat weight of your stones? ---------------- THE VS1,E is 1.26ct, table-75%,depth 74%, VG polish, Good symmetry,no Flour., .06 of being within 1:1 on the length to width, they want 9k, what could i use as a criticism to lower the price for negotiations......
Posted: 6/16/2002 11:38:15 AM

P: 6/16/2002 1:22:46 PM
Pricescope Administrator Total Posts: 8,265 Last Post: 1/5/2008 Member Since: 1/1/2000	Dolemite, do the search for Princess-1.26-E-VS1 from pricescope' front page. You'll see that you can get similar stone for about $6,600 from reputable internet vendors... Use it as an argument. Good luck and let us know the result. Pricescope
Posted: 6/16/2002 1:22:46 PM

P: 7/26/2003 1:47:15 PM
skeeve47 Rough Rock Total Posts: 6 Last Post: 8/22/2003 Member Since: 7/26/2003	Hello--I am new to this, but: Is Fred Cuellar wrong? His checklist ("How to Buy a Diamond") says you should "disqualify" princess diamonds that don't meet his 65/65 test for table and depth %. So far I have yet to even FIND a 65/65 princess. Even Blue Nile's signature cuts are closer to 68-70. The link to the AGA chart was very helpful, but I am baffled by the Cuellar book at this point. Any thoughts? scd
Posted: 7/26/2003 1:47:15 PM

P: 7/26/2003 2:45:06 PM
Richard Sherwood Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,879 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 9/25/2002	The best place to file that Cuellar book is in the trashcan. Rich, Independent GG Appraiser Sarasota Gemological Laboratory
Posted: 7/26/2003 2:45:06 PM

P: 7/26/2003 2:57:52 PM
ice_is_nice Rough Rock Total Posts: 39 Last Post: 9/11/2003 Member Since: 7/12/2003	I don't know if the 65/65 rule is true but I know that Sirius has a Princess Ideal Cut that appears to be at least close to those parameters. You can see the range of their cut parameters on their web site at: www.siriusdiamonds.com/pages/princess.html I have never seen these diamonds in person so I can't really say much more about them. Perhaps others can give you more info. They are Canadian diamonds though, and my understanding is that on that basis alone, they command a bit of a premium. I believe it has something to do with the fact that they are "conflict-free". Good luck in your search!
Posted: 7/26/2003 2:57:52 PM

P: 7/30/2003 5:06:31 PM
Salvation711 Rough Rock Total Posts: 2 Last Post: 8/1/2003 Member Since: 7/30/2003	Fred Cuellar's book is awesome. I don't care what anyone says. People in this forum only mock what they don't understand. You should take Fred's book out of the trash can and actually read it!!! Keep searching for a 65/65 Princess cut. You will be happy to find one and more importantly she will be completely excited when you do. I wish you the best of luck!!! Knowledge is power. The truth shall set you free. "The opinions expressed by those who have a vested interest in the topic are of course partial!"
Posted: 7/30/2003 5:06:31 PM

P: 7/30/2003 5:40:04 PM
barry Cut Rock Total Posts: 440 Last Post: 12/1/2003 Member Since: 3/22/2001	Try to get a look at stones with table/depth in the low 70's and high 60's and compare to the 83/77 you've already seen. Barry www.superbcert.com
Posted: 7/30/2003 5:40:04 PM

P: 7/30/2003 6:10:39 PM
Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,936 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002	Skeeve--run an archive search on Fred Cuellar --many threads will come up. Draw your own conclusions. I got the book for free from their site and read it..just like I read a bunch of other items as well in my search. In the end I made my own educated decisions. Nothing is absolute and that is especially true while searching out beautiful stones. I would continue to do your own research, use the AGA chart for princess cuts as Leonid suggested--the chart is very helpful and will show you what is acceptable for a well cut princess stone. Use all the data you gather to make a final educated decision. Your eyes will help you in your decision as well. Don't rush your decision on selecting a stone, its one you will have to live with forever!! Best of luck! ________________________________ "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein
Posted: 7/30/2003 6:10:39 PM

P: 7/30/2003 7:10:57 PM
Newbie333 Rough Rock Total Posts: 48 Last Post: 7/27/2004 Member Since: 5/26/2003	The only thing I don't understand about Fred Crueller's book is that the prices quoted are so much higher than here on PS.... Even if you look at his quotes using the GIA Class III (15%-25% below cost), sometimes his numbers are still high... What gives? What's the best way to determine a FAIR price??? NB333
Posted: 7/30/2003 7:10:57 PM

P: 8/1/2003 4:55:14 PM
Salvation711 Rough Rock Total Posts: 2 Last Post: 8/1/2003 Member Since: 7/30/2003	Mara - I have researched your "dirt" on Fred Cuellar. Personally, I perceive this to be nothing more than mere muck-raking, if you know what I mean. If he is such a felon, then please explain why his company manufactures Championship Rings for all the professional sports team and he is the diamond advisor to the Wedding Pages, American On-Line, etc.? Not that I'm for him or against him, but what is your major complaint? Why does he have such great credentials though everyone in these forums continues to slander him? Let me know at your earliest convenience. Thanks. Also, are you in the diamond business? "The opinions expressed by those who have a vested interest in the topic are of course partial!"
Posted: 8/1/2003 4:55:14 PM

P: 8/12/2003 10:52:00 PM
neatomos Rough Rock Total Posts: 1 Last Post: 8/12/2003 Member Since: 8/12/2003	Ok...I heard/read so much debate and argument over Fred's Cuellar 65/65 princess cut theory and I think it's time we investigate. 1. Does anyone own a 65/65 princess diamond from Fred who can provide testimony? If the 65/65 cut provides a substantial increase in light return then surely someone out there is satisfied and is willing to spread the word. 2. Can someone with DiamCalc run a study with 65/65 parameters and specs from Fred's book to compare with the top classes from the AGA Cut Class charts for princess cut? I'm not an advocate of Fred by any means, but I have read his book and his reasons do sound legit. The fact that a majority of the public does not consider cut when purchasing a diamond (but rather shape) coincides with Fred's statement that a majority of the diamonds are incorrectly cut. Why would a jeweler cut a perfect diamond if very few recognize its true value and more money can be made off poorly cut diamonds? Let's attempt to resolve this issue using some evidence and make some conclusions. I know I sure could use the advice. I don't know who to believe.
Posted: 8/12/2003 10:52:00 PM

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