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ť Independent Appraisal - What if you blab?

Independent Appraisal - What if you blab?

P: 9/9/2004 4:28:38 PM
ChooChoo Ideal Rock Total Posts: 513 Last Post: 10/15/2006 Member Since: 9/25/2003	I did something stupid - while booking an appointment with Marty Haske for an independent appraisal of a GIA certed stone, I accidentally blabbed the stats on the stone. He immediately cut me off and said "I wasn't supposed to know", but it was too late... He said he can still do the appraisal and he'll try to "forget" by then... What would you do? Do you think there's still a value to the appraisal?
Posted: 9/9/2004 4:28:38 PM

There are 14 replies to this message. There are 14 replies on this page.

P: 9/9/2004 5:00:40 PM
nicknomo Cut Rock Total Posts: 197 Last Post: 12/12/2005 Member Since: 6/26/2004	I'd say it's ok. If he knows what he is doing he can still reach a conclusion on his own about the qualities of the diamond. His job is to tell you what he grades the diamond, and how much that grading is worth, regardless of what the certificate says.
Posted: 9/9/2004 5:00:40 PM

P: 9/9/2004 5:07:22 PM
wonka27 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 628 Last Post: 9/13/2007 Member Since: 6/22/2004	I think the fact that he was upset that you told him shows the type of good work he wants to do for you! I'd still go and not mention it again
Posted: 9/9/2004 5:07:22 PM

P: 9/9/2004 5:12:09 PM
oldminer Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,964 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 9/4/2000	Marty Haske is a good friend of mine and he is independent to a fault sometimes. No matter what you have said, he will reach his own conclusions. He is super smart and knows how to be fair to you and to the seller. The best way to do this is by sticking to the truth. I am certain it won't matter. Many people tell us the grades of stones before we appraise them. It makes the job easier because we know if there is going to be any problem, but honesty has only one dimension, all or nothing. It simply should not matter and it doesn't to us or to other good appraisers. I would say it is best to play poker with the grades. Don't volunteer them because you truly want to believe you are getting a totally honest opinion. Once the grades are on the table, you must trust the integrity of the appraiser, but you must do that anyway. If you don't believe the appraiser, then what's the point at all? A trustworthy person is 100% straight, not 99%. Its one black or white issue we have an answer to. David S. Atlas GG(GIA), ASG, Sr. Mbr. NAJA www.datlas.com
Posted: 9/9/2004 5:12:09 PM

P: 9/9/2004 5:18:50 PM
ChooChoo Ideal Rock Total Posts: 513 Last Post: 10/15/2006 Member Since: 9/25/2003	Thank you all for your advice - I was leaning toward going anyway, but you confirmed that. I completely trust Marty, but I was concerned that his knowledge of the stats would subconsciously "color" his perception of the stone, since so much of the grading is subjective and all people, appraisers included, have a bit of a confirmation bias that leads us to confirm what someone else has told us about something... Since the appraisal is quite expensive, I was concerned that I would no longer get its full value, having blabbed the stats (and I was only upset at myself, not at all at Marty - I thought I took away the whole point of an independent appraisal). But hey, I wasn't expecting the stone to deviate much from the cert anyway, and if it does in his opinion I'm sure he'll tell me. Again, thank you all for putting my mind at ease.
Posted: 9/9/2004 5:18:50 PM

P: 9/9/2004 5:44:18 PM
Rank Amateur Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,547 Last Post: 5/5/2009 Member Since: 2/26/2003	I wouldn't let it bother me. I trust that he would be professional enough to not let the specs taint his view. You're not "testing" him, you want his opinion. If anything, you may have made his job harder.
Posted: 9/9/2004 5:44:18 PM

P: 9/9/2004 9:47:48 PM
elmo Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,142 Last Post: 10/19/2009 Member Since: 6/18/2003	---------------- On 9/9/2004 4:28:38 PM ChooChoo wrote: I did something stupid - while booking an appointment with Marty Haske for an independent appraisal of a GIA certed stone, I accidentally blabbed the stats on the stone. He immediately cut me off and said 'I wasn't supposed to know', but it was too late... He said he can still do the appraisal and he'll try to 'forget' by then... What would you do? Do you think there's still a value to the appraisal? ---------------- Dave already said it but Marty's among the very best in the industry. Nothing to worry about . We worked with him once and he really went far above the call of duty to help us out. I'm still laughing after reading about his remark because it wasn't too many days ago another appraiser here was almost complaining about folks who don't bring a report, which I thought was odd.
Posted: 9/9/2004 9:47:48 PM

P: 9/10/2004 8:48:10 AM
rfath Cut Rock Total Posts: 401 Last Post: 6/29/2007 Member Since: 7/27/2004	I talked to Marty a few days ago to set up an appraisal. He seems like a very nice person (turns out that I work within walking distance of his office); I'm interested to hear what he's got to say about the prospective stone, especially since I'm so clueless about diamonds. He was very explicit that I bring copies of all of the documents for the stone and that I not show them to him before he's completed his assessment.
Posted: 9/10/2004 8:48:10 AM

P: 9/10/2004 9:14:08 AM
elmo Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,142 Last Post: 10/19/2009 Member Since: 6/18/2003	---------------- On 9/10/2004 8:48:10 AM rfath wrote: He was very explicit that I bring copies of all of the documents for the stone and that I not show them to him before he's completed his assessment. ---------------- I aagree, the fact that the stone has a GIA or AGS report is very relevant to the final appraisal. I can't find what I was referring to now, but I want to remember that in one odd post an appraiser was saying they charge more if someone shows the lab report after the analysis. Like Dave says, I think Marty is being "independent to a fault" .
Posted: 9/10/2004 9:14:08 AM

P: 9/10/2004 9:53:23 AM
strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003	---------------- On 9/10/2004 9:14:08 AM elmo wrote: ---------------- I can't find what I was referring to now, but I want to remember that in one odd post an appraiser was saying they charge more if someone shows the lab report after the analysis..---------------- I dont remember that specific thread but there are various levels of appraisals. It is usualy cheaper when you say here is the report and the appraiser looks at the stone and says yep its the one in the report and the specs on the report are good. Total time 5-10 min. Then you have the appraisal where the appraiser does a full evaluation regrading everything writes his own report and then includes the information from the lab report for reference and value purposes. Total time 30min to an hour or more. Time is money there is going to be a big price difference between the two appraisals. ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K
Posted: 9/10/2004 9:53:23 AM

P: 9/10/2004 10:18:30 AM
denverappraiser Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,615 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 7/21/2004	Strmrdr, That was Nan Stacey, who is one of the top tier appraisers in the San Francisco area. The problem she was discussing is that clients want to come in and get a full evaluation about their item without showing, or even admitting to, the lab report. At the end, they then produce a grading report with an 'Ah Hah!' statement and ask for an explaination and/or a rewrite. At the very least, you have now changed description of the stone from a XXX to an XXX accompanied by a lab report that says YYY. Other items, like exact weight as opposed to estimated weight may also need to be changed and there is usually a lengthy explaination required. This is fine but it's time consuming. Most appraisers charge by the hour. This is an example of client behavior that wastes the appraisers time and, consequently, the clients money. Most clients want an estimate up front of how long it's going to take to perform the appraisal and what they should expect the price to be. It's quite difficult to give accurate estimates when clients do this. Neil Beaty, GG ISA Independent Appraisals in Denver There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.
Posted: 9/10/2004 10:18:30 AM

P: 9/10/2004 12:06:46 PM
quaeritur Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,238 Last Post: 2/3/2005 Member Since: 3/12/2004	When I went in for an appraisal with Neil, I brought all the reports with me, simply because I wanted him to give me a full appraisal AND confirm that the stone I had corresponded with the cert. I laid out the certs on the table so he knew I had them, but he did not open them or look at the information until after he gave me his opinion on the stone. I agree with what's been said before -I'd trust Marty even more after hearing that he didn't want the information up front. Nice to have appraisers with such high standards! quaeritur
Posted: 9/10/2004 12:06:46 PM

P: 9/10/2004 1:15:02 PM
TL1 Cut Rock Total Posts: 241 Last Post: 12/3/2005 Member Since: 9/8/2004	hello does anyone have an idea of the range that appraisers charge? what if you don't want it removed from the mounting and just want a more general appraisal? i am concerned about forking over a ton of money and then finding out the ring isn't as good as i thought. seems like this could become an expensive process? Is marty difficult to get appointments with quickly?
Posted: 9/10/2004 1:15:02 PM

P: 9/10/2004 1:37:17 PM
elmo Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,142 Last Post: 10/19/2009 Member Since: 6/18/2003	---------------- On 9/10/2004 10:18:30 AM denverappraiser wrote: Strmrdr, That was Nan Stacey, who is one of the top tier appraisers in the San Francisco area. The problem she was discussing is that clients want to come in and get a full evaluation about their item without showing, or even admitting to, the lab report. At the end, they then produce a grading report with an 'Ah Hah!' statement and ask for an explaination and/or a rewrite. At the very least, you have now changed description of the stone from a XXX to an XXX accompanied by a lab report that says YYY. Other items, like exact weight as opposed to estimated weight may also need to be changed and there is usually a lengthy explaination required. This is fine but it's time consuming. Most appraisers charge by the hour. This is an example of client behavior that wastes the appraisers time and, consequently, the clients money. Most clients want an estimate up front of how long it's going to take to perform the appraisal and what they should expect the price to be. It's quite difficult to give accurate estimates when clients do this.---------------- It's an important distinction, and I also agree with what strm says...two different kinds of appraisals. I have to go back and read Stacey's post since I somehow had the idea that they wanted to know what the GIA said before rendering an opinion. If you know their forum id please pm me. For an analysis prior to purchase not an insurance appraisal, I think it's in the customer's best interests for the appraiser to render an opinion unaware of what the lab report says. The report can be factored in at the end, as part of document preparation. A good appraiser will maintain objectivity regardless, but I like Marty's extra effort to also maintain a strict appearance of objectivity as well. p.s. In my experience these pre-purchase appraisals run $100-$250, on the order of a lab report. Analysis without a report up-front isn't unreasonable from a cost standpoint.
Posted: 9/10/2004 1:37:17 PM

P: 9/10/2004 1:54:06 PM
denverappraiser Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,615 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 7/21/2004	Elmo, I believe her forum name is NanStacy. I agree that it's best to grade the stones first, independently of the observations on the grading report. The report becomes important for the preparation of the documents and for the discussion about any discrepancies that may have come up. The problem happens when the client effectively wants the appraisal prepared twice. Marty, by the way, is wonderfully qualified. Neil Beaty, GG ISA Independent Appraisals in Denver There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.
Posted: 9/10/2004 1:54:06 PM

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