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 » RockyTalky
»  » Non-yellow Mid to Low Color Stones (non-Fancy Fancies)
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Non-yellow Mid to Low Color Stones (non-Fancy Fancies) |
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| P: 9/6/2004 3:12:01 PM | |
wanderlost Cut Rock Total Posts: 124 Last Post: 9/15/2004 Member Since: 11/3/2003 |
I realize that the color shift for stones (be it yellow, brown, blue, grey, red, etc) is not reported on certs, just the color 'intensity' grade.... leaving one to guess what the tint is (as you look through scanned certs, exactly what color that M or V is). Obviously, the same intensity of different colors can be worlds apart on eye-appeal. I was hoping to find out the best way (or place) to find & evaluate these non-fancy color stones (say J-Z) to exclude the yellows, perhaps browns, & zero in on greys, blues, greens, etc. I've culled through a few sites (that actually carry these lower colors) & short of calling in about every stone that strikes me as interesting - is there anything else that can be done (and will dealers go through inventories to see what color-tints their stones are?) Likewise, what is the relative 'population' of yellow/brown tint vs. blue, grey, red, green, etc.... will these non-fancy fancies carry premiums even if they are not beyond Z-color (and usually not make it to normal 'white'-RB outlets?)... Thanks for your help, I look forward to your replies. |
| Posted: 9/6/2004 3:12:01 PM | |
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There are 14 replies to this message. There are 14 replies on this page. |
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| P: 9/6/2004 6:43:20 PM | |
yowahking Cut Rock Total Posts: 317 Last Post: 11/13/2004 Member Since: 8/16/2004 |
While you cn debate whether GIA is the best or not, they have more clout. There are stones that are slightly brown that would have been M ish a few years ago from GIA and maybe not worth a cert, that now get K. There are also stones that are more yellow that would have gotten J from GIA a few years ago that now get K. The two K's look completely different. Part of why new systems are in the works. One to develop a percentage of tint like ordering car window tint. 10% -40% tint. TIme will tell, but for now, find a good appraiser who usually has more qualifications than those at a lab.
Scott Bohall |
| Posted: 9/6/2004 6:43:20 PM | |
| P: 9/6/2004 11:43:01 PM | |
diamondsbylauren Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,128 Last Post: 1/5/2006 Member Since: 10/18/2003 |
Hey Wanderlost, Actually, GIA does use a brown, or pink modifier on faint diamonds. For example: We recently had a light brown stone the GIA gave W-X light brown. Here's a faint pinkish brown  In colors of colorless, and near colorless, light browns are treated as stones leaning towards yellow- also known as "Cape" stones. Generally, if a J leans toward brown, it's can be good thing. This is referred to as "Top Light Brown" As far as faint blue, or faint green- I'd bet such stones exist- but they are rare as chicken's teeth. Grey is another matter- many dull stones have a grey tinge. David |
| Posted: 9/6/2004 11:43:01 PM | |
| P: 9/7/2004 1:32:57 PM | |
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wanderlost Cut Rock Total Posts: 124 Last Post: 9/15/2004 Member Since: 11/3/2003 |
Interesting... does anyone else have pictures (or scanned certs) to show this modifier (on the color grade?).... Also wanting to see if anyone has a picture of a J-N grey, blue, green, etc. tinted diamond.... thanks -B
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| Posted: 9/7/2004 1:32:57 PM | |
| P: 9/7/2004 3:49:51 PM | |
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diamondsbylauren Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,128 Last Post: 1/5/2006 Member Since: 10/18/2003 |
Here's the faint pinkish brown who's picture would not appear David |
| Posted: 9/7/2004 3:49:51 PM | |
| P: 9/7/2004 4:00:21 PM | |
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diamondsbylauren Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,128 Last Post: 1/5/2006 Member Since: 10/18/2003 |
Here's a shot of a 1.13 Fancy green yellow David |
| Posted: 9/7/2004 4:00:21 PM | |
| P: 9/7/2004 4:04:05 PM | |
oldminer Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,964 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 9/4/2000 |
Wanderlost: The D-Z+ scale for the colorless to light yellow stones is not the same for many other colors. If you were lucky enough to have a natural blue of O/P color, it would be a light fancy color, not O/P. A pink of S type color would definitely be a light fancy pink not S color. The typical D-Z color scale does not apply to the truly rare natural colors. I happen to own a 1 ct round GIA graded Y/Z diamond. It is an old cert and would very much be a light to fancy yellow in today's grading environment. I figured it was a good diamond and cert to hold onto just in case I had to prove where fancy color begins in the yellow series. David S. Atlas |
| Posted: 9/7/2004 4:04:05 PM | |
| P: 9/7/2004 5:04:12 PM | |
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diamondsbylauren Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,128 Last Post: 1/5/2006 Member Since: 10/18/2003 |
Great points David, I have had some faint pink ( GIA graded) stones which could almost pass for E color! I feel that blue, as a shade, is not visible in diamonds unless the color is quite strong- say, equivalent to Fancy Light. Your 1ct Y-Z round is a true rarity! Generally speaking a round is not a great stone to use as a color sample for one reason: Rounds are so very rare in fancy colors- I find it difficult to use a round stone for color comparison next to a radiant. Therefore, having a Radiant Y-Z might be more useful based on the fact that you'll see 10 times as many radiants in these colors as rounds. David |
| Posted: 9/7/2004 5:04:12 PM | |
| P: 9/7/2004 5:46:45 PM | |
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wanderlost Cut Rock Total Posts: 124 Last Post: 9/15/2004 Member Since: 11/3/2003 |
So is the premise of my search (itself) incorrect then? That E-L stones that exhibit tints other than yellow are not graded due to their color intensity on the (normal) D-Z white scale? I realize that E is a little high up to start here, but I remember seeing the colorimeter that (Jonathan?) uses in his testing of stones give a readout that was not yellow, yet was still in the H/I range.... Would this stone (assuming again that it was not a yellow shift) be classified as a 'light fancy' and not a H/I? Again, I wonder about grey... I realize that orange, pink/red, green, blue, etc are quite desirable colors (in any intensity) - and that fancy greys are incredibly rare & expensive as well. However, as it wouldn't be much to look at (any more than yellow would be) in the G-M range.... would these get a normal GIA/AGS/EGL/PGS cert that would make no distinction that it was a 'grey tinted' stone vs. a 'typical' yellow tinted stone? Thanks for your help.
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| Posted: 9/7/2004 5:46:45 PM | |
| P: 9/7/2004 6:00:06 PM | |
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diamondsbylauren Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,128 Last Post: 1/5/2006 Member Since: 10/18/2003 |
Grey is simply NOT a desirable color in diamonds. I have seen steely colored diamonds which were just dull. A friend of mine bought a piece of rough that polished out to something like a 3.00 Emerald Cut. My buddy was hoping GIA would call it "Fancy Blue". Well, they called is Fancy Grey Blue. A Fancy Blue Emerald Cut of 3 carats could easily bring $300,000 per carat. A Fancy Grey Blue is worth less than a third of that. I've seen Fancy Grey Diamonds, and to my recollection, they were not very high priced. If a white diamond has a tint of pink, people run for it. If a colorless, or near colorless stone has grey in it, it would likely be pretty dull. Remember, some colors are much more visible in a diamond- such as Yellow, Brown, or Pink. Blue, in particular, is hard to see because the nature of blue in a diamond is generally far more subtle. The photo is a 1.06 Fancy Blue Oval that I saw in January 2003. I stupidly passed on that one. I'll bet it would at least $80-100K if I found it today. It would have been around $50K if I'd have bought it then.  David |
| Posted: 9/7/2004 6:00:06 PM | |
| P: 9/7/2004 6:11:55 PM | |
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wanderlost Cut Rock Total Posts: 124 Last Post: 9/15/2004 Member Since: 11/3/2003 |
You wouldn't happen to have a picture of your friend's 3ct. emerald cut, would you? (or perhaps his source for buying rough?!  - I digress)...What about the color grey would decrease the intensity of the light that it would reflect & refract? I know that there are greys that are simply a lot of inclusions (in the same way that blacks are a continuation of this), but I've heard of these steely greys that are very high clarity and am interested in them. Is there anything that would cause these to not give off the same reflection & refraction that a pink, orange, blue, green, or yellow would (besides absorbtion of the spectrum (of course)) - a diamond is a diamond (or, is the greyness due to microscopic imperfections whereas blacks are macroscopic?)... In any case - what about finding these (or being able to search them out from the abundance of yellow tints out there).... and what is the relative rarity of the greys vs. yellows. Finally.... where does fancy light start? G? J? M? what about stones (whiter) than that cutoff...? hoarded by jewelers ?Thanks for your help again.
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| Posted: 9/7/2004 6:11:55 PM | |
| P: 9/7/2004 6:26:09 PM | |
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diamondsbylauren Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,128 Last Post: 1/5/2006 Member Since: 10/18/2003 |
Ok- Let's see- I have no photo of the Emerald cut, but if I recall, he bought the rough at.....WalMart- no, wait, Marshalls. he he hehehehe Grey is simply not a bright color- therefore it's presence in diamonds is not a plus when it comes to "bright" The GIA color scale starts at D, and progresses down thru to Y-Z. Stones darker than that are Fancy Light Yellow. Fancy Yellow Color Chart Here's a stone GIA graded Y-Z color- 4.27cts no fl  David |
| Posted: 9/7/2004 6:26:09 PM | |
| P: 9/7/2004 8:45:24 PM | |
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
Interesting point about fancy gray... I am still recovering from the sight of a larger marquize, fancy light gray graded VVS1 clarity - pretty dull, and it wasn't just the cut that made it so. It is not the only one light gray I know of, but this was the highest clarity grade. I would rather describe it as lacking dispersion relative to colorless or light yellows for what maters. Is there any research available on what colors light gray diamonds? This one stone was puzzling enough to ask 
Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 9/7/2004 8:45:24 PM | |
| P: 9/8/2004 12:46:03 PM | |
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wanderlost Cut Rock Total Posts: 124 Last Post: 9/15/2004 Member Since: 11/3/2003 |
wow... now my interest is really picqued my interest in this... Does anyone have some pics to share? - I'm curious as to whether fire/scintillation/dispersion would be affected as much as brilliance & white light return, or if you could get a grey FIC that would look worlds better than a BIC....
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| Posted: 9/8/2004 12:46:03 PM | |
| P: 9/28/2004 7:36:30 PM | |
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diamondsbylauren Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,128 Last Post: 1/5/2006 Member Since: 10/18/2003 |
OK- So, the other day something happended which will cause me to flip flop here. I found a Fancy Light Grey Diamond, and I really like it I stand corrected- grey can be quite nice looking in a diamond. David |
| Posted: 9/28/2004 7:36:30 PM | |
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