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 » RockyTalky
»  » LAZAR KAPLAN IDEAL CUT DISAPPOINTMENT, AGS-000 HELP!
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LAZAR KAPLAN IDEAL CUT DISAPPOINTMENT, AGS-000 HELP! |
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| P: 8/20/2004 6:03:16 AM | |
DIAMONDSAFIRE Rough Rock Total Posts: 15 Last Post: 8/22/2004 Member Since: 8/20/2004 |
HERE IS THE STORY, PURCHASED FOR $23,000 DOLLARS AND TAX, A LAZARE KAPLAN 1.513 CT. ROUND BRILLIANT WITH THESE SPECS, GIA CERT AND AGS CERT, I AM SICKENINGLY DISAPOINTED WITH THIS STONE BECAUSE IT DID NOT RATE AN "EXCELLENT" IN THE "HOLLOWAY" "FIRE" GRADING. HERE ARE THE STONE'S SPECS: TOTAL DEPTH 61.6%, TABLE DIAMETER 56%, CROWN ANGLE 34.3, PAVILION ANGLE 41.0, PAVILION DEPTH 43.2, CROWN HEIGHT 51.1%. THE HOLLOWAY GRADING GAVE THIS STONE A 1.6 OVERALL "GRADE." "LIGHT RETURN" EXCELLENT, "FIRE," "VERY GOOD" VERY GOOD FOR THE REST. I HAVE WANTED A STONE WITH "EXCELLENT" "FIRE" FOR TWENTY-SEVEN YEARS, AND THIS STONE WAS TO BE IT. THERE ARE PARAMETERS FOR SUPER IDEAL CUT STONES THAT I HAVE FOUND ON THIS WONDERFUL WEBSITE, I DO NOT KNOW IF IT IS COOL TO DISCLOSE THE SITE, BUT NICEICE.COM IS THE GREATEST PLACE BESIDES THIS ONE, TO DISCUSS THE SIMPLE AND ANALYTICAL BEAUTY OF DIAMONDS. I AM PISSED AT THE WHOLE PURCHASING OF THIS STONE AND WOULD LIKE TO SEARCH FOR ANOTHER STONE WITH AN "EXCELLENT" "FIRE" GRADE. I COULD NOT BELIEVE IT LACKED IN THIS DEPARTMENT. I THOUGHT I HAD THE BEST OF THE BEST, AND HEAVEN KNOWS THE PRICE COMMANDED THE BEST. FEEDBACK PLEASE?? EXPERTS PLEASE?? HOLLOWAY CUT ADVISER LEFT ME HEARTBROKEN ABOUT THIS ROCK AND SHUCKS, IF I COULD RETURN IT FOR A STONE WITH "TIGHTER" SPECS I SURE WOULD. PLEASE ADVISE. THE JEWLER FLIPPED OUT WHEN I TRIED TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT MY DISATISFACTION OF THE CROWN AND PAVILION ANGLES, THEY SAID IT WAS PERSONAL TO THEM, AND THAT I WAS "RIDICULOUS" TO CONCERN MYSLEF WITH THIS "FOLLY." HORSE COOKIES. I AM DISGRUNTLED, EXPERTS FEEDBACK, SALVE, WOUND BALM, HELP. AFTER BEING YELLED AT BY THE JEWELER, I WANT TO RETURN IT. LAZARE KAPLAN MY FOOT JANELLE JANELLE |
| Posted: 8/20/2004 6:03:16 AM | |
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There are 44 replies to this message. There are 30 replies on this page. |
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| P: 8/20/2004 6:23:01 AM | |
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
Sorry to hear that your diamond shopping wasn't perfect... Aside the HCA that we already know, what are the other specs? How outrageous IS that price? Robin And Todd from NiceIce write sometimes on this forum... no secret. SO do other sellers that take an interest in ideal cut, Harts and Arrows diamonds, as you may know by now. Also, there is a database of ideal cut rounds with known HCA scores put up on pricescope by several sellers. You might want to take a look and get an idea of prices andbasic stats of their stock. Most of these stones come with much more detail from the seller than the database listings. Did you take a look? Teh relevant link is THIS. I would not be dissapointed by the respective HCA. If you do want the "perfect" diamond, than you may want to look for a more precise account of optics and overall cut quality. Usually, tests of light return performed directly on the stone (as oposed as analysis of numbers, like the HCA) are supposed to be more precise, for example. Did you look a bit on the tutorial here ? It's a good read about Harts and Arrows and optics. But the one put up by Good Old Gold gives more detail about particular measurememt tools and what they means (LINK). You may wnat to take a look.  Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 8/20/2004 6:23:01 AM | |
| P: 8/20/2004 6:29:14 AM | |
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DIAMONDSAFIRE Rough Rock Total Posts: 15 Last Post: 8/22/2004 Member Since: 8/20/2004 |
DER ANA, THANK YOU FOR THE LINK SUGGESTIONS. I AM SUCH AN OPTICS "FREAK" (PERFECTIONIST) I HAVE VIEWED THE STONE IN MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF LIGHT AND HAVING THE "EYE" THAT I DO, I SHOULD LOOK AT THE LINKS YOU SUGGESTED. PRICE IS SECONDARY TO THAT "EXCELLENT" "FIRE" GRADE THAT I WAS HOPING FOR WITH THE "HCA." WRITE ME ANYTIME. JUST WANTED THE DIAMOND OF A "LFETIME" WITH THE FIRE OF A BURNING BUILDING, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. IT IS A D COLOR VVS2 TO BOOT.....FIRE PLEASE??? SINCERELY, JANELLE JANELLE |
| Posted: 8/20/2004 6:29:14 AM | |
| P: 8/20/2004 6:37:04 AM | |
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valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
Er... obviousy you are after a top piece. What are exactly the proportiosn on the AGS cert? The HCA score may or may not be all that important really. It woudl be nice to see if really a different set of proportions within the AGS0 range would likely make allot of difference for this particular piece. Somewhere on the HCA tutorail is written that this is no "hair splitting" tool. it is just precise enough to allow buyers to make a first cut among diamonds presented "by numbers" only (such as AGS reports or Sarin reports... or EGL certs). Then, the fine details must be dealt with in person - via tests of optics of, good old eye sight. Fire (dispersion) would be such a feature to judge beyond the HCA, as far as I know.  PS: ... I do not mind at all writing about a very nice stone like this. esp if WHEN I DO NOT HAVE TO READ THROUGH THOSE CAPS! Thanks 
Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 8/20/2004 6:37:04 AM | |
| P: 8/20/2004 6:43:37 AM | |
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valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
Talking fire... the Brilliance Scope measures it somewhat as 'Colored Light Return' and some diamonds just have it over the top, like THIS one. Surely there are others, and quite a few sellers use the Brilliance scope to present their ideal cut diamonds. Hope this works for you Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 8/20/2004 6:43:37 AM | |
| P: 8/20/2004 6:49:31 AM | |
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DIAMONDSAFIRE Rough Rock Total Posts: 15 Last Post: 8/22/2004 Member Since: 8/20/2004 |
Valeria, i write in caps because of poor hand coordination, (arthritis) sorry, i shall accomodate the rest as best as possible with these hands. sorry. yes, this stones specs are as follows, table depth of 61.6% table diameter 56% crown angle 34.3 and the pisser here is the pavillion angle which i wish had been a 40.9-40.4, instead of the 41.0 which it is, also the pavilion depth is 43.2, and the crown height is 51.1%. the 41.0 pavilion angle is the fly in the ointment. I wish I had a stone with the 40.4, not a 41.0. The HCA was disappointing it rated the stone at a 1.6 and with the pavilion angle at 40.9, would have been rated a 1.4, with an "Excellent" fire grade. So there you have it. The jewler flipped out when i mentioned these specs being "Important" to me, basically shut up and be glad that you have an AGS-000 and a GIA excellent, excellent. thank you valleria. please don't mind the caps, it is hard on my arthritis otherwise. forgive me. and thank you kindly, janelle niceice.com is a spectacular and genuine and caring website. Todd and Robin "ROCK." Pun intended. JANELLE |
| Posted: 8/20/2004 6:49:31 AM | |
| P: 8/20/2004 6:50:08 AM | |
Lynn B Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,142 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 5/9/2004 |
Yikes, Janelle... I am SO sorry you are so disappointed in your diamond!  I am not an expert by ANY means... but here's my 2 cents. You saw the diamond and loved it before you bought it, right? I am assuming you observed it in all different lighting conditions? My friend David (Magnum) once reminded me that a diamond only reflects light - it can't create light... (we can tend to almost forget that sometimes!)... so diamonds will look quite different in different lighting situations. Even the BEST cut diamond will not always display blazing fire. If you were thrilled with the diamond before you bought it, and thrilled with it until the HCA score... then I would humbly suggest that you take a step back and a deep breath and look again at that stone -- which I am sure is indeed a gorgeous, gorgeous diamond. An HCA score of 1.6 is a GREAT score! And the fact that it got a VG not an EX in the "Fire" category may not even be something that is noticable to the naked human eye. The HCA, while extremely valuable, is just not meant to be that precise of a tool. From your post I got the impression that the stone was non-returnable. If that's the case, then I hope you are able to re-learn to love it... because it does certainly sound lovable! Remember, it is the same stone that it was before the HCA score! Janelle, you have a beautiful diamond!  I hope this helps... please keep us posted. Lynn And THAT'S my story and I'm sticking to it! |
| Posted: 8/20/2004 6:50:08 AM | |
| P: 8/20/2004 6:53:42 AM | |
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DIAMONDSAFIRE Rough Rock Total Posts: 15 Last Post: 8/22/2004 Member Since: 8/20/2004 |
Thank you again. janelle JANELLE |
| Posted: 8/20/2004 6:53:42 AM | |
| P: 8/20/2004 6:54:31 AM | |
Rank Amateur Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,547 Last Post: 5/5/2009 Member Since: 2/26/2003 |
It sounds like you have a super stone. Do not let the HCA score sway what your eyes should be telling you. A 1.6 is a GREAT score and the fire may indeed be excellent. Certainly not worth getting all lathered up about. If it is eating you up, return it and let someone who will appreciate it get this great stone. Let your eyes rather than the HCA be the judge. Of course my wallet is casting judgement of its own right about now.
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| Posted: 8/20/2004 6:54:31 AM | |
| P: 8/20/2004 6:58:02 AM | |
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DIAMONDSAFIRE Rough Rock Total Posts: 15 Last Post: 8/22/2004 Member Since: 8/20/2004 |
Thank you for your honest answer, and i write in caps because of terrible arthritis and the puctuation and shifting hurts alot. Forgive me for the annoyance. i thank you for your candor, you are my kind of person and I enjoy honesty in people as their finest quality, regards and thank you, janelle JANELLE |
| Posted: 8/20/2004 6:58:02 AM | |
| P: 8/20/2004 7:08:51 AM | |
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DIAMONDSAFIRE Rough Rock Total Posts: 15 Last Post: 8/22/2004 Member Since: 8/20/2004 |
Dear lyn, thank you for writing me, yes i was disappointed with the HCA not excellent score for "fire" but i shall have to learn to relove this stone as it is not returnable....I am sure that you read the specs of the stone and i left out the part of it being a "high" D color, VVS2 stone, and the rest of the information (specs) in my post, the HCA excellent was important and i shall have to recalibrate my thnking, thank you Lyn, i wirte in CAPS because of terrible arthritis, so forgive any typosgraphical errors in this small type. thank you kindly lyn, janelle JANELLE |
| Posted: 8/20/2004 7:08:51 AM | |
| P: 8/20/2004 7:32:27 AM | |
Richard Sherwood Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,879 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 9/25/2002 |
The HCA is just an indicator, not the last word. The last word is your eyes. If you thought the diamond was beautiful, it is. How it looks to your eyes is the hardcore, empirical test. How it looks as a number is theory. Have confidence in your ability to judge beauty. 1.6, by the way, is an excellent score. And D VVS2, my God, is outstanding. Rich, Independent GG Appraiser |
| Posted: 8/20/2004 7:32:27 AM | |
| P: 8/20/2004 7:44:47 AM | |
kevinng Cut Rock Total Posts: 398 Last Post: 3/1/2008 Member Since: 6/10/2004 |
Hi Janelle, Yes, I agree with the rest. Don't let the HCA score distract you from the beauty of the diamond. While the HCA is very useful for weeding out clearly bad stones, it does not determine the actual beauty of the stone. That is why no vendors sell their diamonds based on the HCA score alone. The eye is the final test for the beauty of the stone. Over the internet, vendors use the idealscope/firescope, BrillianceScope, Isee2, Sarin measurements, H&A images and so on, to convince consumers that the diamond is cherry... but that is because we cannot see the diamond over the internet. Ultimately, we still have to judge based on our sight. You bought the diamond with the benefit of sight. Is the diamond not performing? If you are concerned, you can send the diamond to an appraiser who has a BrillianceScope, Firescope, etc... just to satisfy yourself that the diamond is performing to the machines, and the judgement of the appraiser, and not just yourself. If it is appraised with poor results, then perhaps you may have a stronger case to return the diamond. |
| Posted: 8/20/2004 7:44:47 AM | |
| P: 8/20/2004 9:11:24 AM | |
Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,581 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
hey J, Stop panicing! 1.6 is a great score, my wife owns diamonds over 2 and I love looking at them .LK are a prestige company - the rolex of diamonds - leaders for decades in cut quality. Their stones have a strong trade in value after you have grown out of it and want a bigger stone. You bought in a retail market and paid a fair price for that market. Internet purchases may cost less, but not everyone wants to buy that way. Calm down and enjoy your diamond. Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 8/20/2004 9:11:24 AM | |
| P: 8/20/2004 2:44:58 PM | |
luvmysparklies Cut Rock Total Posts: 266 Last Post: 5/23/2008 Member Since: 8/5/2003 |
Oh Janelle- Your stone sounds absolutely beautiful! That high color and clarity?! The specs look good!! And if you see rainbows and colored light coming from your stone with your own eyes, please, please don't worry about what the HCA says. Like others have said, it is just one tool, that used in the right way, can eliminate poor performers. I am smiling here because we are a different breed here on PS. Welcome to the world of hard core diamond freaks, where one can actually be "sickeningly disgusted" with a LK ideal! OMG!!  Please enjoy your beautiful stone! Post pics so we can all drool! Luv
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| Posted: 8/20/2004 2:44:58 PM | |
| P: 8/20/2004 3:06:39 PM | |
MelanieC Cut Rock Total Posts: 127 Last Post: 8/24/2004 Member Since: 6/13/2004 |
Hi there, I so agree with everyone else. I did the same thing. I bought a AGS 000 stone and when I got home my stone scored 2.1 on the HCA. I was shocked and horrified. It took me about two weeks till I actually got real and enjoyed it and stopped worrying that I wasn't getting the best looking diamond. Since then, I have bought two smaller .35ct stones that scored 1.2 & 1.3 on the HCA with Excellents on everything but spread. Guess what.........they look EXACTLY like my larger diamond. I have compared them in different lights and my larger 1ct diamond that scores 2.1 doesn't look any different. I hope you can look past that. Besides 1.6 is a great score. Does the diamond look beautiful? DO you see lots of fire?? Melanie |
| Posted: 8/20/2004 3:06:39 PM | |
| P: 8/20/2004 3:59:33 PM | |
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DIAMONDSAFIRE Rough Rock Total Posts: 15 Last Post: 8/22/2004 Member Since: 8/20/2004 |
Dear melamie, welcime to the world of disappointment, thank you for your answer, i see "fire" but the HCA grade of "Excellent" "Fire" meant alot to me, but i will recalibrate my thinking and try to enjoy, God bless for your reassuring answer, your stone is gorgeous, sincerely, janelle JANELLE |
| Posted: 8/20/2004 3:59:33 PM | |
| P: 8/20/2004 5:02:16 PM | |
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luvmysparklies Cut Rock Total Posts: 266 Last Post: 5/23/2008 Member Since: 8/5/2003 |
Janelle- I hope that my post to you didn't come off the wrong way. If you are really disappointed with your stone, is there any way you can trade for another with this jeweler? I understand that you cannot return it for a refund (at least that's what I get from the posts) but maybe a trade? Maybe you can get the specs for a really firey stone off of the general PS listing (stones not in any vendor's personal inventory) and have your jeweler memo that stone for your viewing and maybe purchase? I am very sorry that you are disappointed. All I meant by my other post was that sometimes we on PS split hairs and the diamond really is gorgeous. Maybe if you can see your own stone side by side with one from PS that your jeweler can memo, maybe you won't really see a difference? And if you do, maybe you can go with the new one? Anyway, just trying to think of an option for you(especially if my earlier post came off as non-sympathetic). I am very sorry and definitely don't mean or intend to make light of your disappointment.  Lazare Kaplan stones, (for what its worth) and from what I have heard, are very well regarded for their cut and beauty. Luv
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| Posted: 8/20/2004 5:02:16 PM | |
| P: 8/20/2004 8:41:31 PM | |
Dancing Fire Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,221 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 4/3/2004 |
Janelle don't worry about the HCA score of 1.6,sounds like you have a beautiful stone,i had my diamond scaned on five different machines depending on which one i believe. the HCA score range from 1.0-1.8. and the pavil angle range from 40.8-41.0, chances are if you scan your diamond on a different machine you might get a different reading. it is always harder to find a "mind clean" stone than a eye clean stone. |
| Posted: 8/20/2004 8:41:31 PM | |
| P: 8/20/2004 9:31:38 PM | |
StevL Ideal Rock Total Posts: 591 Last Post: 12/11/2007 Member Since: 1/1/2000 |
You must remember this isn't an exact science. You can have two more sarin/ogi reports done and the measurements will change! You can enter the new measurements in the HCA and it will probably change. Nothing about this is exactly repeatable time and time again. You have a great diamond...Enjoy Cheers, |
| Posted: 8/20/2004 9:31:38 PM | |
| P: 8/22/2004 12:21:09 AM | |
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DIAMONDSAFIRE Rough Rock Total Posts: 15 Last Post: 8/22/2004 Member Since: 8/20/2004 |
Valeria, when you mentioned in your post to me regarding the Lazare Kaplan stone that I purchased, you mention the "Brillianscope" which measures "fire" in a stone, and to quote you, you said "and some diamonds have "fire" "over the top" like "THIS" one. Did you mean "my" stone the one that i purchased and am unhappy with? I wondered if you were referring to "THIS" one as my stone. just curious. Thank you for your answer. janelle JANELLE |
| Posted: 8/22/2004 12:21:09 AM | |
| P: 8/22/2004 12:45:19 AM | |
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DIAMONDSAFIRE Rough Rock Total Posts: 15 Last Post: 8/22/2004 Member Since: 8/20/2004 |
Dear Gary, are you "THE" Garry Holloway?????? Oh my goodness!!!!! I cannot believe it. Do you think i am being ridiculous over the "Very Good" " Fire" grade, as opposed to the "Excellent" "Fire" grade? The light return score was "Excellent" and the rest on your (I still can't believe it is you!!!)HCA test came up "Very Good". Garry, My poor husband paid $23,700.00 plus 8.25% sales tax. The stone is a 1.513 DVVS2, and all i wanted was the "fire" of a burning building. The stone has a crown angle of 34.3 and a pavilion angle of 41.0 doggone it. If it had been a 40.9 pavilion angle, it would have scored "Excellent" "Fire" on "your" (blush) HCA test. RATS!!!!!!!! If you are indeed "THE" Garry Holloway will you tell me, and EXACTLY what you think of the crown and the pavilion angles, and my "fire" fetish, and what you think of this stone?? Thank you Garry. Does the one degree on the pavilion angle 41.0 as opposed to the 40.9 really make you think that the "fire" grade is that more "deficit" than the 40.9 pavilion angle, your answers mean the world to me and how i percieve this stone, it just does not seem that "fiery to me", the Table is 56%, Total depth is 61.6%, crown angle 34.3, pavilion angle 41.0, pavilion depth 43.2, crown height is 51.1%. Give me the power of your knowledge and insight (eyesight) thank you so much. Diamondsafire Janelle are your really Garry Holloway?  respectfully Janelle Armstrong JANELLE |
| Posted: 8/22/2004 12:45:19 AM | |
| P: 8/22/2004 12:48:08 AM | |
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DIAMONDSAFIRE Rough Rock Total Posts: 15 Last Post: 8/22/2004 Member Since: 8/20/2004 |
THANK YOU, and it dawned on my when i saw your picture for the thrid time, it might be the "man" I saw on the website!!! You are very handsome. I hope that i did not offend you by saying that. respectfully, janelle and thank you for your knowledge and wisdom with this serious issue for me.
JANELLE |
| Posted: 8/22/2004 12:48:08 AM | |
| P: 8/22/2004 2:50:28 AM | |
mrsfrk Ideal Rock Total Posts: 648 Last Post: 10/17/2006 Member Since: 4/20/2004 |
Janelle, click on the THIS in Valeria's post, it is a link to another diamond's info. You know, sometimes a bit of ignorance is bliss. Is your diamond pleasing to YOUR eye? Did you love it before you plugged in the numbers? Numbers aren't everything. If this disappointment is going to continue to gnaw at you ( as it seems that it will) return the stone and start from scratch. Why don't you see if you can see IN PERSON a diamond with a 40.9 pavilion, since you seem so fixated on that tenth. Perhaps you'll find that your diamond is not lacking whatsoever in any regard. Maybe you'll be vindicated. You could definitely get a bigger diamond, and figure out the HCA score BEFOREHAND- if you have a $ 23,000 budget to spend with a Pricescope vendor. In any case, good luck- I hope you resolve this soon, jewelry is supposed to bring us happiness and warm fuzzies, not angst and sturm and drang.
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| Posted: 8/22/2004 2:50:28 AM | |
| P: 8/22/2004 3:45:01 AM | |
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DIAMONDSAFIRE Rough Rock Total Posts: 15 Last Post: 8/22/2004 Member Since: 8/20/2004 |
THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME TO WRITE ME, I THOUGHT THAT THE STONE WAS A LITTLE OFF BUT THE MERCHANT WAS VERY HIGH PRESSURE IT IS A LAZARE KAPLAN "IDEAL CUT" AND BIG DEAL,THE ONLY TWO STONES SHE COULD PRODUCE AFTER TWO YEARS OF WAITING FROM LAZARE KAPLAN (AMONGST FAMILY TOURBLE AND DEATH IN THE FAMILY, I HAD TO POSTPONE MY HUNT)WERE TWO D COLOR VVS2 STONES, WHICH I THOUGHT ODD, THIS IS A VERY HIGH END STORE, BUT ALL ASIAN MERCHANTS AND OWNERS, HMMMM? THIS WOMAN SHOVED THESE TWO STONES AT US ASSERTING "RMEMBER TWO YEARS AGO BEFROE YOUR MOTHER DIED AND THE VS1 STONE THAT WAS SENT TO AGS HAD A FEATHER THAT BROKE THE SURFACE OF THE GIRDLE OF THE STONE?" OF COURSE I REMEMBERED, BUT HER ASERTION THAT ANYTHING BELOW A VVS 1 OR 2 WOULD "AUTOMATICALLY PRODUCE AN INFERIOR STONE WITH INCLUSIONS "THAT BREAK THE STONE'S SURFACE" WAS PREPOSTEROUS. I FELT UNCOMFORTABLE AND SHOULD HAVE LISTENED TO THAT FEELING IN MY GUT. NONE THE LESS SHE EXPLODED IN RAGE AFTER I CALLED HER TO TELL HER ABOUT HOW I FELT ABOUT THE CROWN ANGLE BEING A 41.0 AND IT SHOULD TECHNICALLY BE BETWEEN THE RANGES OF 40.5-40.9, THE WORST AGS-00 GRADE FOR PAVILION ANGLE IS A 41.25 AND LOW AND BEHOLD I GET A 41.0. BUT THE STONE IS NOT THAT FIERY, AND THE LIGHT BOUNCES INTERNALLY NOT AS WELL AS I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT, ALSO I WOULD HAVE BEEN HAPPY TO HAVE A VS1 OR VS2 STONE WITH A F,G OR H COLOR AND GOTTEN ALOT MORE BANG FOR THE BUCK. THIS VENDOR WAS HELL BENT ON TELLING ME, WELL "IF YOU DO NOT WANT THESE STONES, WHO KNOWS HOW LONG IT WILL BE BEFORE SOMETHING TO MY SPECIFICATION COMES IN (MY SPECIFICATIONS WERE IDEAL CUT AND THAT NOTHING BREAK THE SURFACE) SHE ALSO UTILIZED A SARIN MACHINE AT HER FIRST LOCATION, AND THAT PROVIDED A DECENT PROPORTION REPORT, SHE DID NOT HAVE ONE AT THIS STORE AND PRODUCED NO OTHER IDENTIFICATION FOR THE STONE OR SPECS OTHER THAN A GIA CERT, AND THEN "I" HAD TO REQUEST THAT THE STONE BE SENT TO AGS FOR CERTIFICATION. OF COURSE IT CAME BACK WITH AN AGS-000, BUT I IN MY IGNORANCE, ACCEPTED THE 41.0 PAVILION ANGLE NOT KNOWING HOW "TIGHT" THE PARMATER FOR THE BEST IDEAL GRADE SHOULD BE 40.5-40.9, THE CROWN ANGLE BY THE WAY JUST BARELY SKATES IN AT A 34.3, I HAVE HAD THE STONE LESS THAN 4 WEEKS IT IS A RING, AN UPGRADE FROM MY FIRST ENGAGEMENT RING, AND FOR THAT MONEY I NEVER DREAMT THE VENDOR WOULD EXPLODE IN RAGE. SHE SAID THAT SHE "WAS A GEMOLOGIST AND THAT SHE TOOK MY PREFERENCE PERSONALLY" AFTER SHE HAD PROCURED THE STONE FROM LAZARE KAPLAN, NEVER EVER, DID I SAY THAT I NEEDED A D COLOR STONE!!! SHE IS AN UNYIELDING WITCH. I KNOW NOT WHAT TO DO AND MY HUSBAND AND I ARE FIGHTING OVER IT AND THE VENDOR WILL NOT WORK WITH ME, I LIVE IN CALIFORNIA AND EVERY STORE RESERVES THE RIGHT TO THEIR OWN POLICY ON RETURN AND EXCHANGES, I WANT TO EXCHANGE FOR ANOTHER STONE WITH A GIA CERT OF "EXCELLENT" EXCELLENT" AND AN AGS-000 BUT WITH A BETTER PAVILION AND CROWN ANGLE, THIS PERSON IS ODD AND WILL NOT COOPERATE. WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST. I AM ANGRY AND DISAPPOINTED AND HAVE NEVER DEALT WITH A MERCHANT LIKE THIS. FUMING OVER HERE. I WILL NOT WEAR THIS RING. SINCERELY, JANELLE JANELLE |
| Posted: 8/22/2004 3:45:01 AM | |
| P: 8/22/2004 4:07:29 AM | |
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Dancing Fire Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,221 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 4/3/2004 |
Janelle what's wrong with the 34.3 crown angle ? it is always harder to find a "mind clean" stone than a eye clean stone. |
| Posted: 8/22/2004 4:07:29 AM | |
| P: 8/22/2004 4:41:59 AM | |
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valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
Oh... The shopping was much worse than the stone. I trully believe that your diamond is as ideal as they get. However, the shopping experience sounds awful! Obviously the seller should have given you more choice and information for an important purchase. Even if your requirement for cut is very strict, it is feasible. And the lest the shop could do is present a diamond with different proportions and more "fire" for comparison. How hard could it be? Not that there is anything wrong with a LK D/VVS, unless this was not your choice. Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 8/22/2004 4:41:59 AM | |
| P: 8/22/2004 5:31:49 AM | |
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DIAMONDSAFIRE Rough Rock Total Posts: 15 Last Post: 8/22/2004 Member Since: 8/20/2004 |
VALERIA, I could not belive how bad the merchant treated me, i have owned the stone less than 4 weeks, and here are the specs, Lazare Kaplan 1.513 rbrilliant, table 56%, total depth 61.6, crown angle 34.3, pavilion angle 41.0, pavilion depth 43.2 and crown height 51.1. she treated me with rage and personal insult at my resqest and no, i did not ask for a vvs stone, or a D color, 2 years ago befroe (my mother died) i looked for a stone, this same merchant sent in a stone to AGS for a cert and it was a vs1 it came back with an external feather on the girdle, one of my prerequsites is that the stone have no flaws that break the surface. So from that "premise" in her "mind" she insisted that nothing but a VVS would suffice, and the D color was a railroad job. i am disgusted. janelle i will not wear this ring it cost $26,000 with tax here in California. i will not wear it. JANELLE |
| Posted: 8/22/2004 5:31:49 AM | |
| P: 8/22/2004 6:05:54 AM | |
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DIAMONDSAFIRE Rough Rock Total Posts: 15 Last Post: 8/22/2004 Member Since: 8/20/2004 |
Garry, thank you for the reply, how upset "would" you be with a crown angle of only 34.3, and a pavilion angle of 41.0? The crown angle just barely makes it in at 34.4, and the pavilion angle over shoots it by a full degree. i paid so much money for this stone 23,00 plus tax here in California and i have owned the stone for less than 4 weeks. The merchant will not exchange it claiming that i will have to wait for a Lazare Kaplan that is suitable, by the way i did not request a D color, or that the stone be a VVS2, just that nothing break the surface of the stone inclusions etc, and that it be "ideal cut" in every way. I wanted a stone with the properties of most "fire" cut being my foremost concern. So i would have ocmpromised on clarity and a color say F G H, instead of D. Please give me your feedback on how to handle the merchant and your feelings regarding the specs of the stone that i posted to you earlier last evening, sincerely, janelle 
JANELLE |
| Posted: 8/22/2004 6:05:54 AM | |
| P: 8/22/2004 6:26:34 AM | |
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valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
---------------- Yours is not the only story of disappointment with a diamond brand... There must be a few around here, but one about Elara was particularly involved. The respective thread (LINK) contains lots of detail about how the case was handled. The problem was different (about the setting, not the diamonds) but makes a good case of how an issue regarding a branded diamond ring was solved between the buyer, the distributor (jewelry shop) and the brand. I am sure there will be lots of other suggestions, but here's mine. Make a new, precise order for a replacement stone (including color, clarity, size, range of angles or Harts and Arrows standard and whatever else you may find relevant) and give them a timeframe that is reasonable for you too (a week?). I would think this will give a reasonable chance to the shop to rectify their behavior and give you what you want. It would be great to talk with someone else in the shop, absolutely! If you do not get satisfactory service, you can always contact Lazare Kaplan - after all, since this jewelry shop is their distributor, shouldn't they represent the LK product with some degree of courtesy? The shop provides services not only to you, but also to their suppliers - and it is the *same* service  .All in all, I understand that your replacement diamond will have to be of the same value. Leaving the grades F/G for color, VS for clarity and the price, you should be able to get exactly what you want and have some choice of size. It may be hard for the store to actually line up a dozen diamonds, but 2-3 should not be a problem. Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 8/22/2004 6:26:34 AM | |
| P: 8/22/2004 9:03:03 AM | |
motcs Rough Rock Total Posts: 51 Last Post: 2/26/2006 Member Since: 7/10/2004 |
What's wrong with Asian merchants and owners?
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| Posted: 8/22/2004 9:03:03 AM | |
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