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 » RockyTalky
»  » when the vendor doesn't seem to want to show the certificate ...
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when the vendor doesn't seem to want to show the certificate ... |
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| P: 8/18/2004 4:44:21 PM | |
Cynthia Rough Rock Total Posts: 69 Last Post: 4/21/2005 Member Since: 7/19/2004 |
I ran into a weird situation a bit ago. I've been lurking around this forum reading and educating myself on what I should know about diamonds so that I didn't look dumb. I recently went (back) to a fine diamond dealer here in Eastern Canada and he told me a certain stone was an F, VVS2, .75 Emerald and was $4900 plus 15% tax. I did see the measurements but have forgotten. When I mentioned about the percentages, etc., he kind of humoured me and said that it come with an appraisal for the insurance. I felt that he did not really want to show me more than the diamond envelope. H/E, my friend, who bought her diamond there said the certificate did NOT come with any crown, table, depth, etc % just the replacement price. I'm surprised and have no idea why it doesn't have this info. The diamonds come from Belgium. I'm not sure if it is because I live in part of the world where people only care about color and nothing about cut, etc. but I'm feeling that I shouldn't even be asking to see this information. We are so limited on the East Coast, unless you want a ring made out of saltwater polished pop bottle glass  Anyone else have a similar problem? And any advice on how to intelligently ask for the info I want. Cindy |
| Posted: 8/18/2004 4:44:21 PM | |
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There are 14 replies to this message. There are 14 replies on this page. |
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| P: 8/18/2004 4:50:13 PM | |
aljdewey Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,236 Last Post: 2/11/2008 Member Since: 11/25/2002 |
I'd just nicely say that you want to see a copy of the certificate. If the certificate is legitimate, there shouldn't be any reason why he won't show it to you. I wouldn't even say that you're looking for cut information (crown/pav) angles on it....just say that part of doing your homework is seeing for yourself. Seeing is believing, tell him. I'd go about trying to get cut information another way. Tell him you would like an OGI or Sarin report performed on the diamond. Either will give you the cut proportion information you want. _____________________ |
| Posted: 8/18/2004 4:50:13 PM | |
| P: 8/18/2004 6:02:39 PM | |
denverappraiser Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,610 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 7/21/2004 |
It's quite possible that the document that he's calling a certificate is different from the documents that you are asking for. Most of the labs call their major diamond document a 'Diamond Quality Report' and they almost always list some of this information. Many labs, notably EGL have a small document that they call a'Diamond Consultation' that doesn't include much of anything about the cut beyond shape and the basic dimensions. People also often confuse certificates with appraisals and they often confuse appraisals with sales promotion materials. Clear as mud eh? You really should insist of seeing the 'certificate' if for no other reason than to know that you are both talking about the same thing. Neil Beaty, GG ISA Independent Appraisals in Denver There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile. |
| Posted: 8/18/2004 6:02:39 PM | |
| P: 8/18/2004 6:33:07 PM | |
mostlywatching Rough Rock Total Posts: 64 Last Post: 3/30/2005 Member Since: 7/22/2004 |
Also, is that price American or Canadian? I have a .79 G VVS2 emerald with an excellent cut that cost over $1000 less, at a B&M.
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| Posted: 8/18/2004 6:33:07 PM | |
| P: 8/18/2004 6:34:22 PM | |
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Cynthia Rough Rock Total Posts: 69 Last Post: 4/21/2005 Member Since: 7/19/2004 |
That is in canadian dollars.
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| Posted: 8/18/2004 6:34:22 PM | |
| P: 8/18/2004 6:41:11 PM | |
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mostlywatching Rough Rock Total Posts: 64 Last Post: 3/30/2005 Member Since: 7/22/2004 |
Phew. I Would hate to have to tell you that the price was all wrong. I still think that having a look at the cert is the way to go. If they have something to hide, you probably don't want to do business there.
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| Posted: 8/18/2004 6:41:11 PM | |
| P: 8/18/2004 6:46:38 PM | |
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Cynthia Rough Rock Total Posts: 69 Last Post: 4/21/2005 Member Since: 7/19/2004 |
it is really frustrating when I'm basically being treated like I should just take his word for it. Not that I really think that he has crap, just that I think he might assume that I know nothing. I am so limited around my area that it really makes shopping hard. And being in Canada - $ exchange and the border taxes that they HAVE to put on, I'm scared to buy online. I guess I will just try to be as nice as I can and gently demand the certificate. When your shelling out the $, they should be handing info hand over fist IMO. 
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| Posted: 8/18/2004 6:46:38 PM | |
| P: 8/19/2004 11:53:55 AM | |
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aljdewey Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,236 Last Post: 2/11/2008 Member Since: 11/25/2002 |
Here's a nice way to "demand" the certificate: Seller: Why do you need to see it? I'm telling you that's what it is. You: (small laugh) I know, I know, but I believe in that old adage.....believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see. It's sage advice that's served me well over time. Seller: (whatever language he uses that refuses to show you certificate). You: Gee, that's unfortunate. I'm very interested in this diamond, but I just cannot buy any stone without doing the diligence that makes me feel comfortable about my purchase. It's unfortunate that such a small issue will prevent us from doing business together. Believe me, his tune will change.....and if it doesn't, then turn around and walk. _____________________ |
| Posted: 8/19/2004 11:53:55 AM | |
| P: 8/19/2004 1:45:49 PM | |
Josh@JA Cut Rock Total Posts: 366 Last Post: 2/18/2008 Member Since: 9/11/2003 |
Cynthia, To be quite honest, I'm shocked that a diamond dealer is not willingly offering you a copy of the grading report for you to review. I thought that was standard practice. It only makes sence that a customer would want to see written documentation for what they are planning to spend thousands of dollars to own. My advice is simple. If the dealer cannot provide a copy of the grading report for you to review before purchase than buy from somebody that can. I hope everything works out for you. Good luck....
_______________ |
| Posted: 8/19/2004 1:45:49 PM | |
| P: 8/19/2004 1:53:15 PM | |
digitring Rough Rock Total Posts: 14 Last Post: 10/25/2004 Member Since: 8/13/2004 |
You may want to try the Canadian online diamond store at DiamondExchange.ca No heavy duty fees across the border. Each diamond should come with AGS or GIA cert. If you live in Toronto, you may even able to make appointment to see the diamond in their office showroom.
Regards, |
| Posted: 8/19/2004 1:53:15 PM | |
| P: 8/20/2004 3:06:26 PM | |
Merry-lynn Rough Rock Total Posts: 11 Last Post: 8/21/2004 Member Since: 6/22/2004 |
Thanks so much for your comments. I went to check out the site and they don't have that much. BUT I am going to contact them to see what they have in stock. I'm pretty bummed out about the "feeling" I got from the Dealer. Maybe I'm just being paranoid but I'm a bit anal and how else am I going to get other people's opinions (here on Pricescope) if I don't get to see the cert. You should be able to hire an engagement ring buyer like you can a wedding planner !
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| Posted: 8/20/2004 3:06:26 PM | |
| P: 8/20/2004 4:30:48 PM | |
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Merry-lynn Rough Rock Total Posts: 11 Last Post: 8/21/2004 Member Since: 6/22/2004 |
I love the dialoge tks for posting it .....
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| Posted: 8/20/2004 4:30:48 PM | |
| P: 8/21/2004 5:31:12 AM | |
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Merry-lynn Rough Rock Total Posts: 11 Last Post: 8/21/2004 Member Since: 6/22/2004 |
New news ... it appears that Gemscan DOES NOT provide the types of certs. This explains why he was acting a bit weird with me bc he knew he didn't have what I wanted and didn't want to blow the sale. Or he thought I was out to lunch  Diamond shopping has become so complicated. I have a wedding set from a previous marriage that I can trade %100 of the value against another ring or set twice the price at a local chain store. Question - Now that I know gemscan does not provide any measurements or %, would it really matter if I went to the chain and asked for a f vvs2 3/4C emerald vs going to the chain were I can unload that other i2 (more than likely)?
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| Posted: 8/21/2004 5:31:12 AM | |
| P: 8/21/2004 5:37:31 AM | |
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
---------------- Ideal Scope anyone?  Once you what the size should be for a vertain weight, and you have a way to tell how would brilliance would rank on a scale... just shopping around looking at stones can't hurt. The GIA-like info on whatever cert should do for judging price. It's good to take advatnge on the buy-back policy, I would think, if they can provide a new stone that you like. Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 8/21/2004 5:37:31 AM | |
| P: 8/21/2004 12:00:50 PM | |
yowahking Cut Rock Total Posts: 317 Last Post: 11/13/2004 Member Since: 8/16/2004 |
Be very careful of the "buy back program" this is where I make the internet guys happy that are not at this point so thrilled with my comments. The trade in policy of mostly chain stores but also independents is a long time scam. It was the way every one did it long ago when the normal markups were high and you could absorb a trade as long as they traded up double. Now, many jewelers work on a much lower margin, and with the internet, you can find so much information that you will be able to compare anyone to anyone. Your bottom line is what you should care about. Forget the full value trade for now. Find the best price on what you want, you will ususally pay about the same price as what you would have paid the difference after your trade with the other place. You can then either keep your first one, or even if you get 1/3 value, you are still ahead. Hope that was clear. Keep the two transactions separate, even if dealing with one person. Find out the buy price of yours either first or after pricing what you want, but if it is on the table as a trade, you will not get the best deal.
Scott Bohall |
| Posted: 8/21/2004 12:00:50 PM | |
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