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 » RockyTalky
»  » What is reasonable to expect at a B&M?
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What is reasonable to expect at a B&M? |
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| P: 8/12/2004 6:57:03 PM | |
andrewk Rough Rock Total Posts: 18 Last Post: 9/16/2004 Member Since: 8/10/2004 |
Hi, Next week, I'll be going back to a local jeweler to look at some diamonds he is having sent in to show me. What I'd like to know is: 1. Is it reasonable for me to ask for a photocopy of the certs? Or should I just bring paper and pen to jot down the specs? (so that I can take them home and run them through HCA and post them here for opinions). 2. Should I expect Sarin analysis to accompany GIA-graded stones? If not, how do I go about obtaining more specific measurements? Can I ask if the jeweler can take measurements for me (especially if they are certified?)? Will this service cost me (I don't mind paying if the answer is yes) and what is a reasonable price for such a service? 3. I just ordered my IdealScope. Would a jeweler mind if I bring it in to inspect the stones? 4. Is there any other instrumentation a typical jeweler may have that I can ask to use to look at the diamonds? My first time in his store, I used both the 10X loupe and a microscope at 30X to take a closer look. 5. How much time should I expect before the jeweler sends the diamonds back? I intend on going to other jewelers in the area for comparison purposes, so I doubt I'll want to make a decision before I've seen my other options. Sorry if the questions seem naive, but I'm just staring out and trying to get as informed as possible. Thank you. -andrewk |
| Posted: 8/12/2004 6:57:03 PM | |
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There are 7 replies to this message. There are 7 replies on this page. |
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| P: 8/12/2004 7:21:16 PM | |
moremoremore Ideal Rock Total Posts: 6,825 Last Post: 2/9/2009 Member Since: 3/15/2004 |
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______________________________ Stewart says: I'm good enough. I'm smart enough. And doggon'it, people like me. |
| Posted: 8/12/2004 7:21:16 PM | |
| P: 8/12/2004 7:21:58 PM | |
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moremoremore Ideal Rock Total Posts: 6,825 Last Post: 2/9/2009 Member Since: 3/15/2004 |
Hi AndrewK. YES, they should at least have a copy of the cert to show you. Not all vendors can give you sarin info. I don't think (but I guess it COULD be possible?) to get the other info without it. If the jeweler minds you using your idealscope get another jeweler. With regard to other analysis..check out GOG...but I don't think any ol B&M can give you the same. Maybe...but I sure as heck haven't seen any local B&Ms that can. And I don't understand #5!  Hope that helped!
______________________________ Stewart says: I'm good enough. I'm smart enough. And doggon'it, people like me. |
| Posted: 8/12/2004 7:21:58 PM | |
| P: 8/12/2004 7:42:49 PM | |
lop Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,651 Last Post: 9/7/2009 Member Since: 6/14/2003 |
I would tell the jeweler what information you would like to have to evaluate the stones before he gets them in so that you don't go through a lot of back and forth and set expectations. Often the manufacture will supply the sarin info with the stones, if it is asked for. The jeweler should definitely have at least a copy of the cert and should let you have a copy for your decision making purposes. He should also not mind the idealscope use, but may be taken aback by it. (I have a jeweler here that flipped when he found out I had a loupe ). Somejewelers arenot used to haveing educated customers, and react differently to it, depending on their mindset. Good luck! Come back for opinionsor questions as you go through the process.
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| Posted: 8/12/2004 7:42:49 PM | |
| P: 8/12/2004 7:49:42 PM | |
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
What's the point of buying from a B&M if you do not get to see the stones lined up - at least a few of them ? There are plenty of numbers on the Net!  If these are rounds, it would be nice to have Sarin info, if not how about taking an Ideal Scope with you? With diamonds in hand you should have better opportunity to judge them, not less than via a virtual shop, I would think. Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 8/12/2004 7:49:42 PM | |
| P: 8/12/2004 7:53:29 PM | |
niceice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,792 Last Post: 7/22/2008 Member Since: 1/29/2003 |
This is going to be fun So we operate both our internet site and a traditional brick and mortar store... We suppose that the answers pertaining to what you should expect kind of depends on how serious your local jeweler is about staying up with technology and providing their clients with detailed information... If you happen to be walking into our store or that of GOG's you're likely to be pleasantly surprised... Q1: Is it reasonable for me to ask for a photocopy of the certs? Or should I just bring paper and pen to jot down the specs? (so that I can take them home and run them through HCA and post them here for opinions). A1: We send our clients out the door with color scans of the lab reports all the time as well as a link to the diamond details page which provides them with detailed clarity photographs. Q2: Should I expect Sarin analysis to accompany GIA-graded stones? If not, how do I go about obtaining more specific measurements? Can I ask if the jeweler can take measurements for me (especially if they are certified?)? Will this service cost me (I don't mind paying if the answer is yes) and what is a reasonable price for such a service? A2: We have a three channel OGI Nova Scope in the store which enables us to measure a 0.20 carat diamond all the way up to a thirteen carat diamond and once again send clients out the door with copies of the proportions information all the time. Want to see a 3D model of the diamond? We can provide you with that as well... Q3: I just ordered my IdealScope. Would a jeweler mind if I bring it in to inspect the stones? A3: Not at all... Use ours or bring your own... Want to see the diamond under the professional SymmetriScope / FireScope? It's right here on our desk and clients play with it all the time... Q4: Is there any other instrumentation a typical jeweler may have that I can ask to use to look at the diamonds? My first time in his store, I used both the 10X loupe and a microscope at 30X to take a closer look. A5: GIA Gem Scope - Lab Scope 10x - 70x magnification; a Lab Version of a Hearts & Arrows Scope (more accurate than the hand held Gems Fantasy Scopes) Polariscope (strain); GIA Diamond Lite (color grading and fluorescence); Added a Gem Ex Brilliance Scope to the artillery last week, but we're waiting for it to be calibrated... OGI Fire Trace (automatic mathematical ray tracing); DiamCalc mathematical ray tracing... Q5: How much time should I expect before the jeweler sends the diamonds back? I intend on going to other jewelers in the area for comparison purposes, so I doubt I'll want to make a decision before I've seen my other options. A5: That depends on their relationship with their supplier and how in-demand the diamonds you are looking for happen to be. They might be allowed to hold the diamonds for a day or two or maybe a week... We own our inventory out right so we're a little more in control, but we won't hold a diamond while people "think" if there is somebody else looking to buy it... Todd L. Gray, President |
| Posted: 8/12/2004 7:53:29 PM | |
| P: 8/12/2004 8:38:12 PM | |
denverappraiser Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,618 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 7/21/2004 |
Andrewk, Tell them in advance what you are looking for, including the request for sarin data so that they can be ready for your visit. Tell them that you are going to shop the stone with other stores and with internet vendors and that you would like to copy certain information off the reports for this purpose. Tell them exactly what information you’re looking for. They may even be willing to get the HCA numbers in advance of your visit if you tell them how to do it and what it is (they may or may not already know). Tell them what you expect in the way of price, and tell the truth, don’t make something up in the hope of getting a better deal. Ask them flat out to tell you why you should buy a stone from them instead of the competition. A good store will be prepared to tell you all of this and more. When you come in for your viewing, it will be fast and easy and no one will feel blindsided by questions that they can’t answer. A direct photocopy of the reports is not usually a reasonable request although they will often give it to you anyway. The problem is that if they don’t own the stone, they don’t want you searching the internet listings for the report number. The same stone might turn up on one of the listings and then the store looks bad. The store has already paid a fair amount to bring in the stone and to pay the salesperson to talk to you about it. They don’t want to lose the sale on that particular sale to some internet dealer who has never seen either the stone or you. They paid so that you could ‘see’ the stone and they should get the benefit if you decide to buy that one. This is a valid concern. They can give you the important information without jeopardizing their position. All you really want is the cut and grading information so you can correctly analyze the stone and compare it to others. Show them the idealscope first and ask them if they’ve seen one. If they don’t know, tell them what it is and teach them how to use it. If they want to argue that this isn’t useful information, listen to what they have to say, they may have a point. Then ask to use it anyway. You can decide for yourself if you think it’s useful. If they refuse to let you do it, walk away. The jeweler will tell you how long they have the stone for. Usually it’s pretty short because the people who own the stone want to make it available to other customers as quickly as possible. Don’t waste their time and money. If you can tell that the sale is going nowhere, politely end it and go somewhere better, preferably before you have them bring in stones from an outside supplier. It’s expensive for them to do this, as well as to maintain a nice viewing environment, to hire the staff and to spend their time talking to you. These are your neighbors and it’s rude to waste their money. This is why you were absolutely honest and told them up front that they are competing based on cert data, cut and price against other stores and with internet vendors. Feel free to name names. They should have a pretty good idea where they stand. If they aren’t going to be able to cut it, they will know this early in the process. Let them gracefully retreat and take your business elsewhere with no harsh feelings left behind. They may be a good store for other kinds of items. On the other hand, if they want to play with the big boys, let ‘em. Some b&m stores are very good and they disserve your business. Neil Beaty, GG ISA Independent Appraisals in Denver There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile. |
| Posted: 8/12/2004 8:38:12 PM | |
| P: 8/17/2004 8:28:27 PM | |
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andrewk Rough Rock Total Posts: 18 Last Post: 9/16/2004 Member Since: 8/10/2004 |
To all who have replied, I just got back home so I haven't had a chance to read your replies, but thank you all for taking the time to post. To denverappraiser (Neal): A separate thank you for your very informative post. I am not interested in buying a diamond on the web (no offense intended to any e-vendors here) because I would like to develop a good relationship with a local (independant) jeweler where I can go for future needs. Thus, I am definitely considerate of their time and money in having stones sent in for me, although a big factor in giving them my business will depend on their willingness to go that extra mile for a customer. As you suggest, I will be upfront about my requirement and needs. I'll treat them fairly with the expectation that I will be treated fairly in return. To niceice (Robin and Todd): Looks like you are very well equipped to handle all kinds of customers, even newbies like me. If you weren't half a contine away, I would come by your store. -andrewk
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| Posted: 8/17/2004 8:28:27 PM | |
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