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»  » Diamond Prices and Grading »
 » RockyTalky
»  » Gemscan Pre-Certs are useless
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Gemscan Pre-Certs are useless |
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| P: 6/30/2004 9:43:46 PM | |
johnny_zigzag Rough Rock Total Posts: 3 Last Post: 7/6/2004 Member Since: 6/30/2004 |
The following is the result of months of research into buying a diamond. All around the city that I live in (Toronto) stones are pre-certified by the local dealer favourite, GemScan. GEMSCAN pre-certs are stickers that list the 4 C's, and are performed in 10 minutes. It MUST BE NOTED THAT this GEMSCAN pre-cert includes only the four C's... and nothing else. You've probably heard that the most important thing about a precious stone is the cut. That is not true... the most important thing about a stone is what material it is made of. For instance, a pre-cert by this questionable place could list a gem with excellent cut, color, clarity and it can weigh a ton. However, it could be glass/zirconia/moi. GEM-SCAM PRECERTS DO NOT INCLUDE ANY SORT OF TESTING FOR SYNTHETIC STONES. IF you have seen these GEMSCAM pre-certs before, you will note that the word "DIAMOND" DOES NOT appears on it. Legally, their defence is "we never said it was a diamond. For that, you need a diamond grading report which takes 40 minutes and is $75". BEWARE WHEN BUYING ROCKS THAT ONLY INCLUDE GEM-SCAM PRECERTS. Zircs and moi's can easily (and LEGALLY) carry a GEMSCAN pre-cert. I've also noted that GEMSCAM greatly inflates the appraisal price of rings. I have seen numerous GEMSCAM appraisal certificates which list replacement value of the ring in question which are two or three times the purchase price. Does this make sense?? Its a selling point for the sly "dealer", attractive to the half-witted buyer; but you have to ask yourself if this makes sense. I am not questioning this lab's technical ability to certify diamonds. I don't doubt the qualifications of the lab personel, either. What I do question is the moral issue here. My suggestion is to avoid GEMSCAM all together and get a diamond grading certificate from a reputable lab like Harold Weinstein who is AGS recognized. Insist from the seller that the purchase of the stone hinges on a qualified certificate (GIA, AGS, etc). Insist that the certificate number is lasered onto the stone you purchase. From the time you pick it up from the lab to the point when it gets set, insist that the stone never leaves your site. And never, never, ever buy with a GEMSCAN precert alone. |
| Posted: 6/30/2004 9:43:46 PM | |
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There are 8 replies to this message. There are 8 replies on this page. |
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| P: 6/30/2004 9:59:22 PM | |
nicknomo Cut Rock Total Posts: 197 Last Post: 12/12/2005 Member Since: 6/26/2004 |
Well I don't know here... There might actually be a market for well cut Zirconias, so the concept might be legitimate. Of course the person who sold you the stone has the responsibility of informing you that the stone is not a diamond. If you go diamond shopping, and you buy a stone advertised or sold to you in the guise that it's a diamond, and it isn't.. that constitutes fraud. In the U.S. you would be able to press charges against the dealer and actually have them arrested if they don't give you your money back (provided you could make a clear case for yourself - i.e. they charged you 7000$ for a cubic zirconia).
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| Posted: 6/30/2004 9:59:22 PM | |
| P: 6/30/2004 10:02:06 PM | |
Mocha Rough Rock Total Posts: 43 Last Post: 7/25/2005 Member Since: 11/4/2003 |
Thank you very much for the information on GemScan. It's good to know especially for people like myself from Toronto who are searching for that perfect stone.
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| Posted: 6/30/2004 10:02:06 PM | |
| P: 6/30/2004 11:40:04 PM | |
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johnny_zigzag Rough Rock Total Posts: 3 Last Post: 7/6/2004 Member Since: 6/30/2004 |
I agree with you. If they get caught, at best they can appologize, play dumb, and give you your money back. Failing that, you can charge them with fraud. But who wants the hassle? Its not worth the gamble. A recognized and qualified grading cert is best.
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| Posted: 6/30/2004 11:40:04 PM | |
| P: 7/1/2004 4:24:30 PM | |
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nicknomo Cut Rock Total Posts: 197 Last Post: 12/12/2005 Member Since: 6/26/2004 |
I whole heartedly agree with you. A reliable cert is the best guarentee you have. I was just making the point, that although gemscan doesn't give you a guarentee of what you are getting, it isn't completely dishonest. The real problem I think is the percentage of bad jewelers/diamond sellers. There are obviously some good ones out there, but there are too many dishonest ones in my opinion. I've been doing extensive shopping recently, and just too many people are out to rip you off. I do think this is very useful information. Based on it, I wouldn't buy a gemscan stone either unless it was verified as a diamond. So I didn't mean to belittle your information, it is very informative. I was just trying to make the distinction between dishonesty by the cert company and dishonesty by the jewelers.
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| Posted: 7/1/2004 4:24:30 PM | |
| P: 7/6/2004 11:20:53 PM | |
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johnny_zigzag Rough Rock Total Posts: 3 Last Post: 7/6/2004 Member Since: 6/30/2004 |
---------------- I see your point. However, I believe GEMSCAN is part of the problem. An honest and ethical gem-lab which does certifications has an obligation to the buying public to indicate that what is perceived as a diamond is infact fake. They SHOULD include, as the first order of business when performing a pre-cert, a test to confirm the nature of the stone. This testing for synthetics (zircs/moi) should be included in their pre-certs. I am sure that they are well aware of whats going on in the industry, and by not calling a fake a fake, they are contributing to the illegal activity. They have a moral and ethical responsibility to the buying public to include testing for fakes. They do not. Thus, they are no good in my books. There is something dirty going on here in Toronto with GEMSCAM, and it makes me 
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| Posted: 7/6/2004 11:20:53 PM | |
| P: 7/7/2004 9:10:56 AM | |
noobie Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,318 Last Post: 9/21/2007 Member Since: 3/3/2004 |
It appears that Gem Scan (nicknamed Gem Scam) has not really improved much since the first and only time I used them more than ten years ago. At the time you had to give them your diamond through a little glass window in an office on Queen Street and wait till they appraised it. They graded a diamond I had as SI2 D. I later brought it to a smaller independent appraiser who let me sit with him through the process. He wasn't that busy at the time so we spent some time talking. He explained the inclusions and we looked at the color grade through his master stones. The stone was as white as could be without the grading stones as reference, but was clearly a weak E or strong F. I got a good value for a SI2 E. I didn't get a steal on a SI2 D as Gem Scan graded. Seems to me that Gem Scan is sorta like EGL, liberal. People in Toronto area should be aware, because I think their market presence is fairly strong locally with B&M stores.
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| Posted: 7/7/2004 9:10:56 AM | |
| P: 7/7/2004 12:08:51 PM | |
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chialea Ideal Rock Total Posts: 520 Last Post: 9/3/2004 Member Since: 4/20/2004 |
---------------- Out of curiosity, what has you so burned up? Did a jewler try to sell you "genuine birthstone" diamond earrings for a great price, and later you found out they were CZ? Personally, I think it would be nice to look for it, but it's obviously not a service they offer, and they're not obliged to do so. There are a lot of different kinds of simulants, and they don't want to spend the time to look for them. I don't think it's their responsibility to do so, but it is the responsibility of the jewler to represent his goods accurately. You can take the diamond to a reputable independent assesor to check it out. You can slag GemScam all you want with this evidence to back you up. I'm not exactly sure what you'd want to put on the "precert" anyway. "diamond vs. not-a-diamond"?
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| Posted: 7/7/2004 12:08:51 PM | |
| P: 7/7/2004 12:21:51 PM | |
Pricescope Administrator Total Posts: 8,265 Last Post: 1/5/2008 Member Since: 1/1/2000 |
Not trying to take any side, I agree with Chialea that bashing any person or business in public is not a right thing to do unless one has evidences of this person/business' wrong doings. Johnny_Zigzag, if you are unhappy with GemScan you can try other services, e.g. EGL Canada or Harold Weinstein. Pricescope |
| Posted: 7/7/2004 12:21:51 PM | |
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