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 » RockyTalky
»  » Pricing Info. & Hearts on Fire
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Pricing Info. & Hearts on Fire |
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| P: 5/21/2004 3:48:32 PM | |
lenhejo Rough Rock Total Posts: 66 Last Post: 6/24/2005 Member Since: 5/21/2004 |
Hi everyone. I have spent the last few days reading over the message boards on this site and just wanted to thank everyone for the helpfull insights, facts and tips. I am currently looking for the following stone for my soon-to-be finacee. 3 carats F VS2 Hearts on Fire I was given a rough estimate of between 30K-40K by a local retail store. Does this range seem accurate? Also, any opinions on Hearts on Fire? I was told the Hearts on Fire premium was between 2K-3K. I am very concerned about the brilliance and sparkle of the stone I will be purchasing and am confident that the Hearts on Fire will mitigate this concern. Any thoughts? Thanks everyone. John-Aaron |
| Posted: 5/21/2004 3:48:32 PM | |
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There are 21 replies to this message. There are 21 replies on this page. |
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| P: 5/21/2004 4:30:20 PM | |
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8*flash Rough Rock Total Posts: 59 Last Post: 7/2/2004 Member Since: 7/15/2003 |
That is a ridiculously large stone but if money is no object which it sounds like, go with an Eightstar. I've seen both cuts and while expensive, the Eightstar is as good as it gets. It doesn't sound like budget is much of an issue for you. If you want to save a few grand, go up to G or H color. You will absolutely positively NEVER no the difference and an Eightstar will look much whiter facing up than any other diamond.
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| Posted: 5/21/2004 4:30:20 PM | |
| P: 5/21/2004 4:35:28 PM | |
Hest88 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,682 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 1/22/2003 |
If you do a search on Hearts on Fire or HoF you should fine a lot of info. Their premium is actually something like 30-40%, but if the stone you're looking at is indeed around 30K that's actually pretty reasonable. I must say I'm surprised, because I think that's equivalent to other H&A stones of that size and quality and usually HoF stones are a lot more expensive in comparison.
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| Posted: 5/21/2004 4:35:28 PM | |
| P: 5/21/2004 4:37:31 PM | |
lop Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,651 Last Post: 9/7/2009 Member Since: 6/14/2003 |
This price range seems about right or a little low for a non-branded super ideal stone with these specs from an internet vendor. I haven't priced the HoF in this size range, but when I looked at earrings the premium was much more than 2-3k for smaller stones. You have the branded premium plus the B&M premium, so my guess is that it will be higher than that.
If you have your heart set on HoF, it's a beautiful stone with a comanding premium. IMO, you can easily find equally beautiful non-branded stones and save significant $$. You might want to call a few of the internet vendors and see what they have. There are lots of ways to ensure a safe transaction and a spectacular stone (they all have return periods and will work with independent appraisers to help the evaluation process).
Not trying to change your mind, but thought I'd interject a different opinion. FWIW, we bought a 2.5 ct E VS2 H&A last year, and in our shopping were convinced that we saved significant $$ buying through an internet vendor without sacraficing quality at all.
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| Posted: 5/21/2004 4:37:31 PM | |
| P: 5/21/2004 4:43:59 PM | |
limey Cut Rock Total Posts: 264 Last Post: 7/14/2004 Member Since: 3/4/2004 |
$30-40k is quite a range, you need a real number to go on
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| Posted: 5/21/2004 4:43:59 PM | |
| P: 5/21/2004 4:53:12 PM | |
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
---------------- I'd rather trust some detailed description of th stone's properties than a brand - including HOF. Are they providing any such description of the stone? Given that diamonds look good regardless and you will likely not have a representative sample to choose from, it might be a good idea to see what this stone ranks once it's cut quality is graded for thinsg like brilliance, contrast, symmetry...  H&A pieces are rather standard - this is what the H&A idea is all about: get those stones to be *identical* and identically great. There is some variation of brilliance among stones which do display the H&A pattern, probably more of a concern if you areally want to have the best of the best. If you do, you should be able to get a good demonstration that this is it  Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 5/21/2004 4:53:12 PM | |
| P: 5/21/2004 4:59:07 PM | |
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limey Cut Rock Total Posts: 264 Last Post: 7/14/2004 Member Since: 3/4/2004 |
I saw about 10 HoF Dream diamonds and the differences were very apparent from stone to stone. I began to notice that each stone had a serial number, and the lower numbers had been around for awhile. All HoF diamonds are managed centrally and called in to stores as consumers request them. Clearly the lower numbered stones had been passed around a bit for some reason or another. I also discovered that the prices were 30-40% premium over non-branded stones at 3 of the 4 stores I visited, and 15-20% at one of them. I ended up going with a branded stone at a non-branded price, a Jubilee, and could not be happier!
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| Posted: 5/21/2004 4:59:07 PM | |
| P: 5/21/2004 5:28:13 PM | |
verticalhorizon Ideal Rock Total Posts: 840 Last Post: 3/24/2006 Member Since: 3/9/2004 |
Do you remember what the prices were like for the HoF Dream? Branded fancies are one thing. But imagine the ACA or 8* or just plain AGS000 ideal you could get for $40k! VH (aka GroomZilla) |
| Posted: 5/21/2004 5:28:13 PM | |
| P: 5/21/2004 5:37:13 PM | |
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limey Cut Rock Total Posts: 264 Last Post: 7/14/2004 Member Since: 3/4/2004 |
It was way early in my search, but I remember a 1.28 ct G VS2 for $14,300, and a 1.22 G SI1 for $11,000.
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| Posted: 5/21/2004 5:37:13 PM | |
| P: 5/21/2004 5:49:03 PM | |
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verticalhorizon Ideal Rock Total Posts: 840 Last Post: 3/24/2006 Member Since: 3/9/2004 |
Wow... that is a high premium. But, to each their own right? Same dealio for Tiffany's (it's Friday, I'm allowed to say it). For some, the brand is enough to justify the cost. It's a comfort factor. I would just suggest that the purchaser be sure to be as thorough selecting an HoF or any branded stone as they would for ANY stone. Val said it best, you have to trust the facts, not just the name. Look at it this way... Tommy Hilfiger, Hugo Boss, Armani Exchange. All big names, but some of the clothing that bears their name are absolute crap. Some of it's great too. You have to be selective, regardless of name. VH (aka GroomZilla) |
| Posted: 5/21/2004 5:49:03 PM | |
| P: 5/21/2004 5:59:14 PM | |
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lenhejo Rough Rock Total Posts: 66 Last Post: 6/24/2005 Member Since: 5/21/2004 |
When you say that you have to be selective and look at all the facts, what facts exactly are you referring too? Thanks for your help. John-Aaron |
| Posted: 5/21/2004 5:59:14 PM | |
| P: 5/21/2004 7:47:14 PM | |
moremoremore Ideal Rock Total Posts: 6,825 Last Post: 2/9/2009 Member Since: 3/15/2004 |
the cut dahling. It's all about cut quality...a stone has to be evaluated by its numbers and by its looks....despite it being a branded stone...just b/c it's branded doesn't mean that a non-branded ideal cut stone won't out perform it! 
______________________________ Stewart says: I'm good enough. I'm smart enough. And doggon'it, people like me. |
| Posted: 5/21/2004 7:47:14 PM | |
| P: 5/21/2004 7:52:52 PM | |
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moremoremore Ideal Rock Total Posts: 6,825 Last Post: 2/9/2009 Member Since: 3/15/2004 |
for example...this ain't no heartsonfire....but I bet it kicks the pants off of a lot of them... (p.s. not suggesting this one...look at that price!...just giving an example).... http://www.goodoldgold.com/2_63ct_d_vvs2_h%26a.htm ______________________________ Stewart says: I'm good enough. I'm smart enough. And doggon'it, people like me. |
| Posted: 5/21/2004 7:52:52 PM | |
| P: 5/21/2004 8:30:39 PM | |
noobie Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,318 Last Post: 9/21/2007 Member Since: 3/3/2004 |
---------------- From what I recall, HOFs were about 30 to 40% more than the other non branded H&A diamonds at a high end store I went to. Even the staff didn't really push them that much and conceded that they were very expensive. Actually one sales person was steering a potential customer away from them to a lower priced stone. Let's see the price they gave me, 0.70 SI1 H was $5,450 or $7,785 per carat. 0.66 SI1 G was $4,200. I wasn't looking for a 2 to 3 carat diamond, but quite a premium at this size range none the less. I would expect the premium for larger size to be equally as large.
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| Posted: 5/21/2004 8:30:39 PM | |
| P: 5/21/2004 9:01:16 PM | |
Dancing Fire Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,227 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 4/3/2004 |
---------------- Lenhejo $30k sounds like a very good price for the stone, but i still advise you to call some vendors here on PS. i have seen some HOFs duds and they are no different than any 0 cuts H&A. there's no guarantee that they'll out preform the top h&a ideal cuts that vendors sell here on P.S.,i doubt you can see the diffence as long as is well cut with the right proportions even if Stevie Wonder or Ray Charles cut the stone. as for 8* it's something different, you have see and decide for yourself if you want to pay the extra premium or not. it is always harder to find a "mind clean" stone than a eye clean stone. |
| Posted: 5/21/2004 9:01:16 PM | |
| P: 5/21/2004 9:08:33 PM | |
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limey Cut Rock Total Posts: 264 Last Post: 7/14/2004 Member Since: 3/4/2004 |
He didn't say $30k!!!!!! He said $30-40K and I bet that was a rough estimate and it will be more like $43k which they will argue is within 10% of their estimate!!
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| Posted: 5/21/2004 9:08:33 PM | |
| P: 5/21/2004 9:35:05 PM | |
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valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
---------------- Light return and H&A symmetry. There are quite a few standards and tools to measure (and show customers) both. PS seems to live on a staple diet of such things: so you can definitely get allot on info on what "briliance scope" "fire scope", "H&A viewer", "Isee2" mean and do, both to diamonds and their prices. I suspect that the recent GIA research would also help line up such cutquality criteria and tests. There is really not much more any brand can insure than top ratings on a couple of such tools. At least two H&A brands care to demonstrate the quality of their stones by providing some measure of it (Eight Star and Isee2, that I know of). I do not know what such proof of quality HOF practices, but if none, I'd pass on them since others care to offer some aside their name. Just my 0.2 worth displeasure with branding, of course. Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 5/21/2004 9:35:05 PM | |
| P: 5/21/2004 10:40:13 PM | |
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limey Cut Rock Total Posts: 264 Last Post: 7/14/2004 Member Since: 3/4/2004 |
---------------- In the stores I went to they had a fancy H&A viewer, like a big kaleidoscope. Whudevah!
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| Posted: 5/21/2004 10:40:13 PM | |
| P: 5/21/2004 11:11:42 PM | |
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Dancing Fire Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,227 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 4/3/2004 |
---------------- The local store I went to, the salesman gave me a lecture telling me that they have the best cutters in the world; 35 of them. Only cuts HOF, and HOF's are the best cut diamonds in the world, and they went to court to prove it. He showed me the stones through a heart and arrow scope. That's about it. As for the stones, I wasn't that impressed. They qouted me a price that is very close to 2x's rap sheet. it is always harder to find a "mind clean" stone than a eye clean stone. |
| Posted: 5/21/2004 11:11:42 PM | |
| P: 5/21/2004 11:14:13 PM | |
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Dancing Fire Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,227 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 4/3/2004 |
"Also, any opinions on Hearts on Fire? I was told the Hearts on Fire premium was between 2K-3K. I am very concerned about the brilliance and sparkle of the stone I will be purchasing and am confident that the Hearts on Fire will mitigate this concern. Any thoughts?" Are you sure it's not 2K-3K per ct? it is always harder to find a "mind clean" stone than a eye clean stone. |
| Posted: 5/21/2004 11:14:13 PM | |
| P: 5/21/2004 11:18:22 PM | |
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limey Cut Rock Total Posts: 264 Last Post: 7/14/2004 Member Since: 3/4/2004 |
In the middle of my search I called HoF and asked how their diamonds performed on Brilliance Scopes or similar, they gave me this long winded answer as to why those tests are not realistic and refused. I saw Dreams thru an IdealScope and with everyone I saw there was leakage around the table reflection. I had seen rounds, princess cuts, radiants and was expecting to be blown away by the Dream but I was sadly mistaken. I honestly thought I was doing something wrong with the I-Scope!
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| Posted: 5/21/2004 11:18:22 PM | |
| P: 5/22/2004 5:40:50 PM | |
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noobie Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,318 Last Post: 9/21/2007 Member Since: 3/3/2004 |
----------------I didn't have an ideal scope, but when I was handed a HOF Dream loose of about 1 carat in size I believe, I moved it around and started squinting at it. The salesperson said that I could move it awy from the lights to see it better thinking it was too bright. I replied, "No, actually, I'm surprised it performs so poorly under these bright lights."
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| Posted: 5/22/2004 5:40:50 PM | |
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