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»  » Can a feather worsen - Enough to make it visible to the naked eye? (I'm no expert and need help, please!)
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Can a feather worsen - Enough to make it visible to the naked eye? (I'm no expert and need help, please!) |
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| P: 5/18/2004 10:59:04 AM | |
KatieS Rough Rock Total Posts: 10 Last Post: 5/22/2004 Member Since: 5/18/2004 |
I have a radiant cut 1.27 carat diamond, VS2, H color. The GIA report shows minor feathering. I received the stone in February when my fiance proposed. He had the setting custom made and over the last several months we've had minor work done to the setting. One week ago we took the ring in for a final 'tweaking' of the setting. A few days later I was looking at the set diamond and saw what appeared to my untrained eye as a crack coming from the top of the diamond going down toward the point! I did not feel a crack line, the diamond surface is still smooth, but I was upset to say the least. I took it to a third party jeweler and he confirmed that is an inclusion - extremely visible to the naked eye. The area of this inclusion is consistent with a feather marking on the GIA report. Last night we were at the jewelry store that did the setting work (the stone was bought online) and they seemed bewildered and suggested we come in tonight when the manager is in. The woman we spoke to last night casually mentioned that perhaps extra pressure from setting the stone had something to do with it. Are they liable or was it a flaw in the stone that just somehow came out now? I would appreciate your take on this, as I am no expert and want to be prepared for when we go back to the store tonight.
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| Posted: 5/18/2004 10:59:04 AM | |
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There are 15 replies to this message. There are 15 replies on this page. |
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| P: 5/18/2004 11:06:35 AM | |
Ronen Rough Rock Total Posts: 8 Last Post: 7/5/2004 Member Since: 5/18/2004 |
Look, sometimes diamonds even break completely when they are taken out of their setting. I have one ring with some .60 - .70 diamonds in it and i want to take them out because the ring looks really terrible. But i was told not to because some of the stones might break. Could be with all the work done on the ring + stone that now the feather grew and the flaw is more evident. Of course this is just my opinion :-). Good luck
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| Posted: 5/18/2004 11:06:35 AM | |
| P: 5/18/2004 11:58:55 AM | |
niceice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,792 Last Post: 7/22/2008 Member Since: 1/29/2003 |
Oh, it can happen... Which is why we consistently reject diamonds which contain feathers which we feel (educated guess) have the "potential" to spread upon limited impact (all diamonds can crack with impact) or too much stress, as in the stress placed upon a stress during the setting process. Diamonds are after all just crystal when it comes right down to it. Sorry to hear about your experience, you might consider filing a claim with your insurance company - some will pay for this and some won't.
Todd L. Gray, President |
| Posted: 5/18/2004 11:58:55 AM | |
| P: 5/18/2004 12:58:46 PM | |
Richard Sherwood Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,879 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 9/25/2002 |
Hi Katie. I would suggest taking the diamond to an appraiser experienced in "forensic" gemology. He can tell if the feather (or crack) was there originally when the diamond was cut, or whether it occurred later, and what was the likely cause of it. He can also issue you a "damage report", documenting how much value was lost if the stone did "crack" or the feather "extend". This will help you in a claim with your insurance company, if the situation warrants. Sometimes insurance companies will reimburse you the amount of value lost in the stone, or sometimes will take the stone "in trade", getting you a new one of equal value. Rich, Independent GG Appraiser |
| Posted: 5/18/2004 12:58:46 PM | |
| P: 5/18/2004 5:12:31 PM | |
moremoremore Ideal Rock Total Posts: 6,825 Last Post: 2/9/2009 Member Since: 3/15/2004 |
Is it possible to tell from a cert if a feather is near the surface of the diamond?....I'm freakin out about this now too....I hope everything works out with yours Katie...
______________________________ Stewart says: I'm good enough. I'm smart enough. And doggon'it, people like me. |
| Posted: 5/18/2004 5:12:31 PM | |
| P: 5/18/2004 6:58:15 PM | |
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
---------------- No... 'cause there is no "side view" and each inclusion gets noted on either one of the face-up or face-down charts, regardless of whether it is right on the surface of just half-way inside. For inclusions close to the surface but not breaking it, I find pictures not very helpful either. However, I suspect that Niceice means more by their "educated guess" note: it would not necesarily be a feather that breaks the surface to worry about (although those are no good either). These could be completely contained in the stone and still react to heat. It would take serious knowledge and definitely having the stone in hand to tell these with any degree of accuracy. However, the case is trully once in a blue moon occurance, fortunately so. I am just wandering why they would not take Ronen's stones out of the setting ? It can't possibly be the same! Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 5/18/2004 6:58:15 PM | |
| P: 5/18/2004 7:28:11 PM | |
diamondsbylauren Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,128 Last Post: 1/5/2006 Member Since: 10/18/2003 |
Richard's advice is great. It would be possible to tell, for a trained eye, if a stone had natural inclusions or it was subsequent damage.
Here's one other pertinant fact:
Diamonds are really put through their paces during the polishing process.
Not to say that you can't damage a diamond, we all know you can.
I've known of freakish accidents where slight pressure cracked a diamond- or of diamond which actually exploded on the cutting wheel- total loss.
But generally speaking- the primary way setters damage diamonds is chipping stones that have corners, or points. I'm refering to Princess cuts. trilliants, pear shape ( the pointed end) Marquise.
I'm sure we can hear horror stories of setters damaging round, oval emerald cut or radiant cut diamonds- but they will be far fewer and farther between.
So I'm going out on a limb and saying- It is unlikely that a setter could cause a VS2 feather to spread.
As far as the writer who is afraid to remove the stones- is there obvious damage to the diamonds?
David |
| Posted: 5/18/2004 7:28:11 PM | |
| P: 5/18/2004 7:29:03 PM | |
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RockDoc Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,509 Last Post: 6/17/2007 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
Dear Vaerlia As each diamond is indivual, so is estimating the life of a diamond too. An advanced gemologist /lab for every stone shoud be considered beford making the purchse. If the feathers are listed on the GIA report, and the stone deveops a structural question, the insurance company MIGHT deny a claim due to a pre-existing condition. This is why going to the correct gemlogist that can anazlyze characterisics in the ston, whic many gemolgists can not, do not or are not qualified to render an accurate opinion. Gemological and equipment experience are really the way to go. It costs more more mone, probably requires shipping it - but in thelong run.. it's safer and far more dependable. In additin checking for internal problems due to strain also have some bearing. Local gemologists and jewelry retailers may not provide the accuracy due to not having the equuipment Be selective with appraisers, especially those who do not have equipment and experience. Bill / RockDoc The
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| Posted: 5/18/2004 7:29:03 PM | |
| P: 5/19/2004 10:21:12 AM | |
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KatieS Rough Rock Total Posts: 10 Last Post: 5/22/2004 Member Since: 5/18/2004 |
Here is an update: I went to the jewelry store last night where the setting was made and the stone was set (and re-set). The manager inspected my diamond and says it is not a crack, the surface is smooth, therefore he says it is an inclusion (feather?) that was always there. I asked him why it is visible now. He says the type of setting it is in makes it visible and he assured me I just probably never noticed it before...even though both my Fiance and I have examined the stone many times with a loupe, both set and loose, and have never seen the inclusion before. Is this really possible? We feel like we are losing our minds! To give you an idea of the setting, the point of the diamond is visible so you can see the entire height of the stone. The manager is having it re-appraised for us on Saturday to help "ease our minds" that there is no damage they could have done. I just don't understand how a VS2 rated stone could have an extremely naked-eye visible feather. We don't know what to believe!
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| Posted: 5/19/2004 10:21:12 AM | |
| P: 5/19/2004 10:29:12 PM | |
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Richard Sherwood Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,879 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 9/25/2002 |
If the feather was always there, it will be graphed on the GIA report. The plot diagram will show it clearly, in correct proportion. Rich, Independent GG Appraiser |
| Posted: 5/19/2004 10:29:12 PM | |
| P: 5/19/2004 10:35:09 PM | |
limey Cut Rock Total Posts: 264 Last Post: 7/14/2004 Member Since: 3/4/2004 |
---------------- Who is appraising it? someone absolutely independent? Perhaps worth sending to someone very reliable like Rich Sherwood on your own dime just for piece of mind.
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| Posted: 5/19/2004 10:35:09 PM | |
| P: 5/19/2004 11:28:16 PM | |
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diamondsbylauren Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,128 Last Post: 1/5/2006 Member Since: 10/18/2003 |
Katie, There are feather imperfections which are extrmely difficult to see- until you spot them once. Sometimes you have to hold the diamond in exactly the right position to spot it- I hate to say this, but maybe that's what the mounting you picked does. If the feather does not reach the surface there is really no possibility at all that a setter could make it worse. If you loved your diamond before, this should not change your feelings. As Richard says- the GIA plot will show the general location of the feather. Can you post a photo? David |
| Posted: 5/19/2004 11:28:16 PM | |
| P: 5/20/2004 10:17:48 AM | |
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KatieS Rough Rock Total Posts: 10 Last Post: 5/22/2004 Member Since: 5/18/2004 |
The GIA mapping does show a feather in this area. I was under the impression, though, that a VS2 diamond should not have any eye-visible inclusions. It's barely visible from the table. It's from the side view (pavillion?) where it looks like a "crack" from the top to bottom of the stone. Today I am taking it to a 3rd party appraiser who has never seen it before. This weekend is when we are going back to the woman who originally appraised it and agreed with the GIA certification (although she is an Independent Appraiser, she often works with this chain of jewelry store so I feel more comfortable going to see someone completely unrelated today first). Forgive my naivety, but how would I take a close-up detailed photo of the stone? Many thanks to all of you who have responded. I have been learning quite a bit the last few days about diamonds!
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| Posted: 5/20/2004 10:17:48 AM | |
| P: 5/20/2004 3:14:17 PM | |
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KatieS Rough Rock Total Posts: 10 Last Post: 5/22/2004 Member Since: 5/18/2004 |
I just got back from having the 3rd party appraiser take a look at it. He says it is a fracture and that it appears damaged to him. He would definitely not rate it a VS2 (like the GIA cert states). I will probably go back and have him do an official appraisal on it after we meet with the original Appraiser on Saturday. He said that it is always a possibility (not a certainity, mind you), that the pressure of have it set and re-set 4 times in 5 months could have done it. The manager of the jewelry store told me that a fracture from setting would occur from one of the points, not on the side of the stone where this is located. This 3rd party told me that is not necessarily true. Thoughts? I will be attempting to take a pic of the stone tonite with my digital camera (any better suggestions for getting a close-up pic?)
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| Posted: 5/20/2004 3:14:17 PM | |
| P: 5/22/2004 7:24:46 PM | |
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KatieS Rough Rock Total Posts: 10 Last Post: 5/22/2004 Member Since: 5/18/2004 |
Guess what? My diamond is damaged. Took it to the appraiser today who immediately said that is was damaged. It was the natural feather but it grew because of pressure (she says). So the jewelry store is ordering in comparable diamonds and we pick a new one out in a couple weeks. I'm a little bummed since I absolutely adored this stone, but I hope the store will redeem themselves and give us some beauties to choose from. Many thanks to all of you who allowed me to vent and pose my questions and concerns. 
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| Posted: 5/22/2004 7:24:46 PM | |
| P: 5/22/2004 10:34:05 PM | |
sevens one Ideal Rock Total Posts: 9,537 Last Post: 9/8/2009 Member Since: 4/14/2004 |
Katie I was literally on the edge of my seat reading this. I'm sorry you had to deal with this but glad things are taking a turn for the better. Nan ______________________________ |
| Posted: 5/22/2004 10:34:05 PM | |
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