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 » RockyTalky
»  » New to this Community, Looking for your Expertise and Advice, Please!
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New to this Community, Looking for your Expertise and Advice, Please! |
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| P: 5/17/2004 2:53:11 PM | |
Lynn B Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,140 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 5/9/2004 |
Hello, I'm new here, and I am SO happy I "found" you guys! I am in the process of having an anniversary ring made. I already have purchased a gorgeous 18K white gold semi-mount (approx 2.5 TCW of baguettes and princess stones, all "G" color and VS clarity.) I am looking for a center diamond, RB, approx 1.5 cts. Definitely want "G" color, would prefer VS clarity. My local jeweler is excellent, I really trust him, but he doesn't have any stones like that in stock, he has to get them in, but he seems happy to do it. The first three he got in were not great (IMHO). All were too deep (I've been doing my homework!) and all were GIA stones, no angle measurements, of course. He doesn't have a sarin machine, and I didn't even worry about trying to get that done on those 3 stones anyway, because they weren't what I was looking for anyhow. (Like I said, all were WAY past 61% total depth, and two were "I" color, which didn't match the other stones in the ring.) He has ordered 3 more stones in, should be here tomorrow. This time he says they will all be AGS-0 or 000, H & A, but (from what I've learned here) it seems like even that isn't a guarantee that these will be perfectly cut, "as-gorgeous-as-could-be" stones. But at least I will have sarin #'s, and plan to run them all through the HCA. He doesn't have a ideal-scope, or brilliance-scope; although another local jeweler has an Isee2, and has offered to run some stones through it for me. I am HOPING that will be enough to make a good decision. Do you think it will be? This is a HUGE investment for us, and will probably be a "once-in-a-lifetime" diamond. It is so important to me to get the most beautiful diamond possible. (We were married VERY young, and I never got an e-ring; so this is really my first diamond!) Do you have any words of advice for me? Anything I may be missing? I have done several pricescope checks on stones and by and large, the prices are generally well within the price my jeweler has given me. I don't have an aversion to buying online at all - but I do feel a certain loyalty to my local jeweler, who got me the beautiful semi-mount at such a great price. I feel that I need to give him a fair chance to get me a center stone, too... but his lack of the more sophisticated "tools of the trade" is definitely discouraging! I know this was a really long post, I'm sorry! I don't know how to make it any more succinct. Thank you so much for any assistance. Lynn  And THAT'S my story and I'm sticking to it! |
| Posted: 5/17/2004 2:53:11 PM | |
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There are 12 replies to this message. There are 12 replies on this page. |
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| P: 5/17/2004 3:13:03 PM | |
Magnum Cut Rock Total Posts: 342 Last Post: 7/28/2004 Member Since: 3/26/2004 |
Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of time to write a longer response, but it sounds like you've got a good plan and are taking the time to make an educated purchase. Please feel free to post as much info as you can, and I'm sure there will be many people willing to offer good advice. One thing i did want to point out that caught my eye was this quote, "Like I said, all were WAY past 61% total depth..." Obviosly, as the depth increases, you sacrifice a little in terms of diameter for a given carat weight, but 61% is not some kind of hard and fast rule for the max depth of a diamond, far from it. The reason I point it out is that the 61% rule is a famous "fredism" that is dead wrong and has no basis in scientific fact. On a case by case basis, there may not be anything wrong with a diamond whose total depth is over 61%, even a little over 62%. The more important thing is that the diamond has good crown/pavilion angles, and doesn't have too thick of a girdle (which could result in a little deeper diamond and smaller diameter). Anyway, I may have been mistaken, but in case you were using the "61% rule" I just wanted to help shed some light on it's fallibility, since I actually believed it at one time and went by it for a little while in my search until I saw the light. Oh yeah, and diamonds do not warp, either. 
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| Posted: 5/17/2004 3:13:03 PM | |
| P: 5/17/2004 3:21:10 PM | |
pqcollectibles Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,441 Last Post: 6/18/2005 Member Since: 2/23/2003 |
Hey Lynn!!  Many Congrats on your new wedding set!! Sounds like it will be beautiful!!  Also sounds like you have a very good jeweler working hard to earn your business.  Get the angles and crunch the HCA. Check for similar ones listed on PS to compare prices. Make sure you are paying a fair price and not a horrendous markup. You will be seeing the diamonds with your own eyes and personal viewing is the true "acid" test. The ISee2 report may be good to have as extra documentation for you insurance carrier. Good Luck and keep us posted!!
Why use a big word when a diminutive word would be succinct! |
| Posted: 5/17/2004 3:21:10 PM | |
| P: 5/17/2004 4:49:37 PM | |
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Lynn B Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,140 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 5/9/2004 |
Thank you both so much for the responses. I truly appreciate the input. Magnum, Thank you, too, for clarifying the 61% factor. Yes, I must admit, I have read Fred's book!   It was sent to me free, and I did read it cover-to-cover. Even in my newbie-ness, though, I realized I should probably take some of it w/ a grain of salt! BUUUUT, speaking of Fred... the plot does thicken. Before I found you guys I was looking anywhere and everywhere for info, and did contact "My Gemologist" at DCI. Someone did call me back, and has been very nice (I was totally upfront w/ him and told him I was working through my local jeweler; he said "Great, that's what we recommend.") Anyway, he did tell me that if "all else fails", he has a stone for me. Here's the scoop on it:RB, 1.40 ct (I'm not "hung up" on the stone being 1.5 exactly; I would be fine w/ a 1.40 - but wouldn't want to go much lower) DIAMETER (mm) 7.35 (7.33 - 7.38) CROWN ANGLE: 34.5 CROWN HEIGHT: 14.0% PAVIL ANGLE: 40.7 PAVIL DEPTH: 43.1% CULET: 0.4% (one report says "0") TABLE SIZE: 61.0% TOTAL DEPTH: 58.5% (4.30mm) GIRDLE THICKNESS: 1.2 - 1.4 (medium/faceted) PROPORTION: EXCELLENT POLISH/SYMMETRY: EXCELLENT CLARITY: VS1 COLOR G (1) FLOURESCENCE: Faint COST: $12,074 By the GIA report drawing, it has 7 "pindot" inclusions in the table, and 2 "pindots" on one of the kite facets (at about 4:00). It scored "VG/VG/VG/EX" and 1.8 on the HCA. This stone is also "fully bonded" (is this another Fred-ism or does this really mean something?) So I guess it is in the back of my mind as a possibility if my jeweler doesn't come through. What are your honest opinions on going this route? I have also been persuing other sites, via PS, and have found some other possibilities, too. Right now I am just trying to keep all options open. Yikes, this is really fun, but it's rather stressful, too! Lynn And THAT'S my story and I'm sticking to it! |
| Posted: 5/17/2004 4:49:37 PM | |
| P: 5/17/2004 5:30:42 PM | |
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Lynn B Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,140 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 5/9/2004 |
BTW, if anyone would like a "visual" of my ring, here is a link to it. (Of course right now, mine has no center stone! )http://www.uneekjewelry.com/sm177.html Notice the MSRP... almost 9K (yikes!) The first jeweler I went to said they could get it for $11K (double yikes!) (She didn't know I'd seen the website, apparently!) The jeweler I'm working with now got it for me for... $3,500! Now THAT'S a huge difference. It is truly exquisite. The diamonds are gorgeous, and the craftsmanship is simply superb! I love it. Now I just need to find that center stone... Lynn And THAT'S my story and I'm sticking to it! |
| Posted: 5/17/2004 5:30:42 PM | |
| P: 5/17/2004 8:21:04 PM | |
lop Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,651 Last Post: 9/7/2009 Member Since: 6/14/2003 |
Bonding is another "Fred-ism", so I'd forget about that. Did you get your table and depth reversed in this stone's numbers? If so, it sounds like a nice stone, but if not, I'd be wary. Either way, if you choose to go with someone other than your local jeweler, run some searches to see what previous customers have to say about the vendor -- no matter who it is. You can buy an ideal-scope yourself fo roughly $29. It's a good way to be able to judge stones that you are looking at with local vendors who may not have all the angles. Not a bad saftey investment for a purchase of this size. Also, many of the manufacturers can supply a sarin report with the stone so the local jeweler doesn't have to have a machine. You might ask if your jeweler can ask for them when he prings the stones in. Good luck -- this should be a fun project!
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| Posted: 5/17/2004 8:21:04 PM | |
| P: 5/18/2004 2:13:57 PM | |
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Lynn B Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,140 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 5/9/2004 |
lop, Thanks for the reply. I double-checked the reports and my stats above are correct. The table and depth aren't reversed! YIKES! What does this mean? The DCI "gemologist" who told me about this stone did say it "looked" much more like a 1.5 or 1.6 than a 1.4 because of the proportions. What do those dimensions tell YOU? I am so worried about not making the very best decision. I have absolutely NO expertise on this subject... only enough information to be dangerous!!! Lynn And THAT'S my story and I'm sticking to it! |
| Posted: 5/18/2004 2:13:57 PM | |
| P: 5/18/2004 5:28:00 PM | |
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Magnum Cut Rock Total Posts: 342 Last Post: 7/28/2004 Member Since: 3/26/2004 |
lynn B, you're right the numbers are correct. If you divide the total depth, 4.3mm, by the average diameter, 7.35mm, you get 58.5% which matches up what you wrote. It's not uncommon to have a smaller depth with a larger table. One of the benefits of stones with larger tables is that they can have larger diameters, if cut right, for a given carat weight, which will make the stone look bigger. As far as how big, for comparison, i found a random 1.5 carat stone with a 61.7% depth, which is pretty standard for a good cut, and it's average diameter is 7.37mm, which matches up with your stone. I doubt it would look like a well cut 1.6 carat, but it might have a similar diameter to poorly cut deep stones that you might find at the maul. While you can get a larger stone for the money, having a larger table is a matter of personal preference. I prefer tables that fall more in the AGS ideal range, which are a little smaller than what used to be considered ideal by 60/60 folks. It's argued that in general, stones with larger tables tend to display more brilliance but less fire, while stones with smaller tables tend to be a little less brilliant but display more fire. Of course there are other factors that play a role, but all things being equal, this is generally accepted. As far as DCI, and your "Gemologist," I personally would be a little sceptical. As far as "bonding" I'm pretty sure Fred's the only one that does that, so i would call it a "fredism." Basically, you're paying a lot extra for what you would get normally from your vendor (a good one, atleast) and insurance company. A lot of the PS vendors have 30 day money back return periods and several offer lifetime full value upgrades for your ring. Combine that with a standard insurance policy, and there isn't that much more that Fred offers with his "bonded" stones. To me it's not worth the extra money. And finally, after actually dealing with DCI while I was looking for a diamond, I honestly would not be comfortable dealing with them. But that's just my opinion from personal experience. I could be wrong. I also seem to recall that in the recent past there have been others that have posted some stones he offered, and I distinctly remember that they also had a 40.7 pavilion and 34.5 degree crown, which sticks out in my mind because those are the exact proportions recommended by Tolkowksi (40.75/34.5). One time the person even said fred's stone supposedly had a 40.75 pavilion angle which is actually the exact angle Tolkowski recommended but which cannot be measured on a sarin machine due to the precision of the machine. It makes you wonder where he gets his numbers?  Anyway, that's just my 2 cents, if you feel comfortable dealing with them and have had a good experience, than that's what's important. I may be totally off base, but i can only call 'em like I see 'em. best of luck in your search.
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| Posted: 5/18/2004 5:28:00 PM | |
| P: 5/18/2004 7:42:32 PM | |
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Lynn B Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,140 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 5/9/2004 |
Magnum, Thanks again for the additional "words of wisdom" - I truly appreciate it. "My Gemologist" actually called me today to tell me that that stone is "being looked at" by somebody else, and I may "lose it" if I don't act quickly. I told him that I was still exploring options and wanted to give my local jeweler every chance possible before I go anywhere else. He was "nice enough"... but I felt like it was a gentle pressure... and it turned me off. I definitely won't be going through DCI.I MAY however go through one of PS's online vendors if my jeweler can't come through. Today he called me to tell me that one of the 3 stones is in. I asked for the proportions and was told that it was AGS "00" but "so new" that the crown & pavilion angles were not available yet! YIKES! I nicely said, "Well, we'll need to get those before I can consider this stone." My jeweler is a super nice guy, seems very reasonable, honest and eager to please. But I swear sometimes I seem to know more than he does, and I don't know MUCH!!! I am getting so frustrated!  Lynn And THAT'S my story and I'm sticking to it! |
| Posted: 5/18/2004 7:42:32 PM | |
| P: 5/18/2004 9:29:45 PM | |
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Magnum Cut Rock Total Posts: 342 Last Post: 7/28/2004 Member Since: 3/26/2004 |
Lynn, I don't think there's any reason to get frustrated, yet. It sounds like your jeweler is working hard for you, and I hope he's able to find you what you're looking for. I think I've read recently that there's been a delay at AGS in their turn-around time, so if the stone was just sent to AGS for it's initial report, that may be why the jeweler is still waiting for all the information. It sounds like you're trying to make a very educated purchase, which I definitely respect, but it may just take a little more time. I'm sure it will be worth it in the end, though.
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| Posted: 5/18/2004 9:29:45 PM | |
| P: 5/18/2004 9:43:52 PM | |
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
Hm... the mounting looks very much like JBstar does them! Do you know about them? (LINK). Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 5/18/2004 9:43:52 PM | |
| P: 5/18/2004 10:18:58 PM | |
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Lynn B Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,140 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 5/9/2004 |
Magnum, THANK YOU for the encouraging words! I was especially happy to read that there may well be true validity to my jeweler not having all the info on the AGS stone. It just sounded so... <<< fishy >>>! AnA, Thank you for the link. Yes, the styles do seem quite similar - there were some gorgeous rings there, for sure. But none I love more than mine! YAAAAY for that!!! Still prowling... Lynn And THAT'S my story and I'm sticking to it! |
| Posted: 5/18/2004 10:18:58 PM | |
| P: 5/19/2004 10:40:00 PM | |
Meghane Rough Rock Total Posts: 9 Last Post: 6/4/2004 Member Since: 5/15/2004 |
Lynn, Your story sounds remarkably like mine! I too was on a search for my dream ring for my anniversary. I picked out a semi-mount at a local jeweler, significantly negotiated it down based on online research, worked with the jeweler for several months (out of loyalty) to get a center stone I liked but was always disappointed with what he showed me. At times, I felt that I knew more than he did or that he wasn't listening to me. It was very frustrating. In the end, I got the semi-mount from the jeweler but got the center stone from Dirt Cheap Diamonds (who I highly recommend). I was always honest with my jeweler and when I found the exact diamond I wanted at DCD, he recommended that I get it. I showed him the finished ring and he loved it. I'm not suggesting online vs. a store but would highly recommend that you keep pushing to get what you want regardless of where it comes from. In the end, it will be worth it! (see my post "Dirt Cheap Diamonds A+" for a pic of my dream ring) Good luck! Meg
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| Posted: 5/19/2004 10:40:00 PM | |
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