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Stealing Sales?

P: 5/16/2004 4:54:35 PM
Superidealist Ideal Rock Total Posts: 655 Last Post: 8/23/2006 Member Since: 9/10/2003	Google Search Term: Abazias Sponsored Links: Diamond Brokers of Florida * Google Search Term: "A Cut Above"** Sponsored Links: Nice Ice * Google Search Term: DBoF** Sponsored Links: Diamond Brokers of Florida (understandable) * Google Search Term: DirtCheapDiamonds** Sponsored Links: Diamond Brokers of Florida * Google Search Term: EightStar** Sponsored Links: Diamond Brokers of Florida * Google Search Term: GoodOldGold** Sponsored Links: Diamond Brokers of Florida * Google Search Term: "Hearts on Fire" Sponsored Links: Diamond Brokers of Florida Nice Ice * Google Search Term: "Lazare Kaplan" Sponsored Links: Nice Ice * Google Search Term: NiceIce Sponsored Links: Diamond Brokers of Florida Nice Ice (understandable) * Google Search Term: SuperbCert Sponsored Links: Diamond Brokers of Florida SuperbCert (understandable) * Google Search Term: USACertedDiamonds** Sponsored Links: Diamond Brokers of Florida * Google Search Term: Whiteflash Sponsored Links: Diamond Brokers of Florida Nice Ice * And, just for fun... Google Search Term: Pricescope Sponsored Links: Diamond Brokers of Florida Nice Ice (understandable, as they do participate) D Riley
Posted: 5/16/2004 4:54:35 PM

There are 28 replies to this message. There are 28 replies on this page.

P: 5/16/2004 5:10:24 PM
strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003	nope its just the way the world works. ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K
Posted: 5/16/2004 5:10:24 PM

P: 5/16/2004 5:23:53 PM
tomatoe Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,316 Last Post: 11/29/2008 Member Since: 10/26/2003	They pay more money to Google than any of the PS vendors?
Posted: 5/16/2004 5:23:53 PM

P: 5/16/2004 5:58:35 PM
Wink Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,032 Last Post: 11/17/2009 Member Since: 5/4/2001	So please explain to this small internet vendor, what is a sponsored link? Wink who knows much more about rocks than the internet... Wink Jones GG Winfield's/High Performance Diamonds
Posted: 5/16/2004 5:58:35 PM

P: 5/16/2004 6:06:58 PM
daboyzmomi Cut Rock Total Posts: 182 Last Post: 9/8/2004 Member Since: 9/29/2003	Ah where to begin Wink. Basically a sponsored link is a paid for placement listing. The person bids on key search terms that their particular website supports and gets placement higher up on the search page then other non-sponsored links. The higher you bid on a relative search term the higher you place in comparision to others who have bid lower. Google is a PPC (pay-per-click) based search engine. Each time someone clicks on a sponsors link, that sponsor is charged. I could go in to wayyyyyy more detail, but I will spare you the over abundance of info I have,,,lol. Hope this helps.
Posted: 5/16/2004 6:06:58 PM

P: 5/16/2004 6:25:03 PM
tonysgeko Cut Rock Total Posts: 294 Last Post: 6/3/2009 Member Since: 6/26/2001	D Riley read this eweek.
Posted: 5/16/2004 6:25:03 PM

P: 5/16/2004 7:06:40 PM
Pricescope Administrator Total Posts: 8,265 Last Post: 1/5/2008 Member Since: 1/1/2000	a few articles about Google's AdWords and trademarks issues: Google plans trademark gambit French Lawsuit Challenges Google And if search engine advertising too complex, Google offers to do the work for you: Jumpstart: Expert advertising. Minimum effort Pricescope
Posted: 5/16/2004 7:06:40 PM

P: 5/16/2004 7:39:03 PM
Wink Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,032 Last Post: 11/17/2009 Member Since: 5/4/2001	Wow. Lots of good info there. Unreal the things some people come up with. I think I would rather sell something with practically no cost of goods, like information before I spent a lot of money being a sponsored vendor. Obviously though it must be working or they would not be making so much money at it. Interesting to see that Yahoo is making 100 million a year on advertising, and they say that Jewelers have a high markup... Thanks for the information. Wink P.S. The French lawsuit thread is no longer there. but the other one was a good read as was the article about blocking the paid sponsor ads, I bet that tightened some jaws at Google and Yahoo. Wink Jones GG Winfield's/High Performance Diamonds
Posted: 5/16/2004 7:39:03 PM

P: 5/17/2004 9:32:54 AM
winyan Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,144 Last Post: 11/1/2006 Member Since: 5/9/2003	Well I don't know about anyone else, but if I google someone on the 'net...I click on the correct http link that's shown beneath the usual hype. If it doesn't say, for example, http://www.niceice.com, then I ignore it. Tough noggies to the people who are riding on others' well earned reputations. win "... (Corporations) have all the benefits of voters, without the guidance of a conscience. ... Corporations they will bring this country down." Theodore Roosevelt 1904
Posted: 5/17/2004 9:32:54 AM

P: 5/17/2004 10:37:08 AM
Superidealist Ideal Rock Total Posts: 655 Last Post: 8/23/2006 Member Since: 9/10/2003	---------------- On 5/16/2004 6:06:58 PM daboyzmomi wrote: The person bids on key search terms that their particular website supports and gets placement higher up on the search page then other non-sponsored links. ---------------- Google doesn't do this, thankfully. Their sponsored links are clearly marked as such. D Riley
Posted: 5/17/2004 10:37:08 AM

P: 5/17/2004 10:40:12 AM
Superidealist Ideal Rock Total Posts: 655 Last Post: 8/23/2006 Member Since: 9/10/2003	---------------- On 5/16/2004 6:25:03 PM tonysgeko wrote: D Riley read this eweek. ---------------- Google's sponsored links don't really bother me. In fact, I try to use them when I can to support Google, which seems like a pretty good company. D Riley
Posted: 5/17/2004 10:40:12 AM

P: 5/17/2004 10:46:10 AM
fire&ice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,827 Last Post: 3/30/2009 Member Since: 7/22/2002	Yet another clear cut example of mindin everyone else's business instead of tending to one's own. Reeks of not enough going on in one's own life.
Posted: 5/17/2004 10:46:10 AM

P: 5/17/2004 11:57:35 AM
Rank Amateur Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,547 Last Post: 5/5/2009 Member Since: 2/26/2003	I find it unethical to pay for your name to come up when someone is specifically looking for someone else BY NAME. Now, you want to bid on a search for "diamond"? Go ahead, knock yourself out. But for my diamond company's paid ad to come up when the search is for "EightStar" is not appropriate. Of course "ethics" and "marketing" aren't two terms you normally associate with one another.
Posted: 5/17/2004 11:57:35 AM

P: 5/17/2004 12:12:46 PM
verticalhorizon Ideal Rock Total Posts: 840 Last Post: 3/24/2006 Member Since: 3/9/2004	The google method of sponsored links are actually better than most others, b/c they're labeled as paid advertising. Previously, (I'm not sure about the last year or so), companies were allowed to spend money so they appear at the top of the search results list, undistinguishable from actual results. In google, the sponsored links are set aside to the left, visually different than the actual search results. But with Google's new beta test G-Mail and their problems with government disclosure of collected information, it's hard to say what turn their business is taking. VH (aka GroomZilla) --- This post was brought to you by the Church of Cut Quality. Note: I am not an expert. Just a friendly neighbor.
Posted: 5/17/2004 12:12:46 PM

P: 5/17/2004 12:41:07 PM
daboyzmomi Cut Rock Total Posts: 182 Last Post: 9/8/2004 Member Since: 9/29/2003	One thing with Google is their editorial checks and balances are way off. Most anybody can bid on a specific term and get it, most times without their site ever being checked for releavent content match for that term. Yahoo/Overture on the other hand has a very strict editorial team which checks for such inconsistancies like seen in the above examples. If they see that the website does not support the specific search term they are denied bidding on that term. Makes for a much better search experience when the listings that come up are what you wanted them to be.
Posted: 5/17/2004 12:41:07 PM

P: 5/17/2004 1:25:28 PM
fire&ice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,827 Last Post: 3/30/2009 Member Since: 7/22/2002	---------------- On 5/17/2004 12:48:11 PM Feydakin wrote: This is no different than any other form of advertising.. The Nascar Busch Racing series frequently runs commercials for Budweiser.. Besides, what better place to advertise than in a spot that is most relevant to your product?? You wouldn't advertise retirement villages in a Delivery room would you?? Steve ---------------- But, it's not just relevant - it's a direct competitor. More akin to having a sponsered link for Miller beer. Perhaps it's advertising - but a pretty agressive form of targeting your competitor. I could understand the Lazare search w/ a sponsered link as one may carry Lazare diamonds or your ideal cut to be compared as an alternative.
Posted: 5/17/2004 1:25:28 PM

P: 5/17/2004 4:30:05 PM
fire&ice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,827 Last Post: 3/30/2009 Member Since: 7/22/2002	---------------- On 5/17/2004 1:45:02 PM Feydakin wrote: We convinced a client to run adwords and sponsored links for their cosmetics site.. They were happy with the business they had, but we wanted to see if the google ads worked.. After a 30 day (and $10,000) test, their sales were up over 400%.. Not bad for a mom and pop cosmetics manufacturer.. But, I think, that this is also closely to the whole B&M vs Internet Sales issue.. Everyone what's they think is fair.. ---------------- Interesting about the cosmetic sales. 10k is quite a bit of outlay. Your profit from the sales increase of 400% would have to more than cover the cost. But, then maybe the advertising nature of getting your name out there is more important. This whole thing (the google hits) fascinates me as we are trying to figure out a way of getting a gift shop (non-profit museum store - well the shop's sole purpose is to generate money for the museum) more attention on the web. Also, we are concerned about not being able to fill orders if such 400% increase happens. Yeah, but to note...that they are not a sponsered link for Jared's, etc. I'm really just a consumer who is tired of the targeting.
Posted: 5/17/2004 4:30:05 PM

P: 5/17/2004 5:05:48 PM
Rank Amateur Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,547 Last Post: 5/5/2009 Member Since: 2/26/2003	---------------- On 5/17/2004 1:45:02 PM Feydakin wrote: Of course it's a direct competitor.. That's the whole point.. The best place to advertise is where your competitors are.. Always has been.. This is why you see all the beer commercials at racing events.. It goes for just about every major product out there.. We convinced a client to run adwords and sponsored links for their cosmetics site.. They were happy with the business they had, but we wanted to see if the google ads worked.. After a 30 day (and $10,000) test, their sales were up over 400%.. Not bad for a mom and pop cosmetics manufacturer.. But, I think, that this is also closely to the whole B&M vs Internet Sales issue.. Everyone what's they think is fair.. ---------------- Just because it works does not mean that it is ethical. Do I really have to point that out?
Posted: 5/17/2004 5:05:48 PM

P: 5/17/2004 6:51:59 PM
winyan Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,144 Last Post: 11/1/2006 Member Since: 5/9/2003	Go, RA! win "... (Corporations) have all the benefits of voters, without the guidance of a conscience. ... Corporations they will bring this country down." Theodore Roosevelt 1904
Posted: 5/17/2004 6:51:59 PM

P: 5/18/2004 4:40:34 PM
fire&ice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,827 Last Post: 3/30/2009 Member Since: 7/22/2002	---------------- On 5/18/2004 4:22:24 PM Feydakin wrote: I'm sorry, I missed the part about advertising having anything to do with ethics.. .. ---------------- Tis a fine line. But, IMHO, the "unethical" nature of this advertising is the deliberate targeting of certain businesses. And, again IMHO, it looks more like a vendetta tactic. The billboard analogy is probably the closest except - I see it more as a person wearing a eat at McDonald's sign smack dab in front of the Burgerking. And, again IMHO, it's kinda like trespassing.
Posted: 5/18/2004 4:40:34 PM

P: 5/19/2004 9:12:45 AM
fire&ice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,827 Last Post: 3/30/2009 Member Since: 7/22/2002	---------------- On 5/18/2004 4:22:24 PM Feydakin wrote: 'If' we are to follow this logic, then e-tailers should never undercut B&Ms by more than a few percent since it would be unethical to force those people with large overheads out of business.. .. ---------------- I've thought about this statement. If the e-tailers were to conspire to charge x percent, that would be price fixing. Not only unethical - but illegal. And, I still maintain it's not advertising. It's a target - as in vendetta. Not very productive use of one's time.
Posted: 5/19/2004 9:12:45 AM

P: 5/19/2004 9:57:51 AM
strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003	there is another thing that happens also. Lets say you buy adds in the general catagory diamonds. Your add will come up on searches related to diamonds. That does not mean that the search term diamonds was used. eightstar is in the diamond catagory so your add could appear without you specificaly requesting it too when eightstar is searched for. Same with niceice and the other vendors names. So before the tar and feathers get used it could be something they have no controll over. A doctors office that we did the website for ran google adds and ran into this problem. It was a fertility clinic and for some reason was in the same google adds catagory as sex change clinics and came up when someone searched for that. Needless to say they werent happy and it did result in some wierd phone calls. ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K
Posted: 5/19/2004 9:57:51 AM

P: 5/19/2004 10:03:41 AM
fire&ice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,827 Last Post: 3/30/2009 Member Since: 7/22/2002	---------------- On 5/19/2004 9:57:51 AM strmrdr wrote: Same with niceice and the other vendors names. So before the tar and feathers get used it could be something they have no controll over. I'm not even going to pretend I understand this computer stuff. But, it's my understanding that a "sponsered link", as in the case of DBOF is solicited & doesn't happen by accident. No? Yes?
Posted: 5/19/2004 10:03:41 AM

P: 5/19/2004 12:03:07 PM
CaptAubrey Ideal Rock Total Posts: 862 Last Post: 3/23/2009 Member Since: 3/28/2004	---------------- On 5/19/2004 9:42:16 AM Feydakin wrote: Obviously, I disagree.. --------------- so do some other people: http://news.com.com/2100-1024_3-5215107.html
Posted: 5/19/2004 12:03:07 PM

P: 5/19/2004 12:37:17 PM
Superidealist Ideal Rock Total Posts: 655 Last Post: 8/23/2006 Member Since: 9/10/2003	---------------- On 5/19/2004 10:17:52 AM Feydakin wrote: I should have double checked the first post since it's entire premise is appearing to be faulty.. ---------------- Premise? There was no premise. These were the sponsored links as of the date of the post. I just thought this was a funny illustration of this incestuous little corner of the web we live in. The words triggering the sponsored links are input by the advertiser at the time of the buy, as shown in the screenshot below. D Riley
Posted: 5/19/2004 12:37:17 PM

P: 5/19/2004 3:12:46 PM
diamondsbylauren Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,128 Last Post: 1/5/2006 Member Since: 10/18/2003	I tried running ALL the searches in the first post- on only one did DBoF come up. This might be becasue of the day I picked, or thier budget- but I did not see any pattern with DBOF. I'd like to point out that advertisers pay for the amount of keywords that are indexed. If Macy's wants to put Sears in as a search word, it will cost money. SO- If an advertiser wanted to cover all thier competitors names, they would a) have to really ramp up their ad budget b) maintain budget but loose some exposure on TRUE keywords. The more keywords you pick, the more you dilute the results. David
Posted: 5/19/2004 3:12:46 PM

P: 5/19/2004 4:38:53 PM
fire&ice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,827 Last Post: 3/30/2009 Member Since: 7/22/2002	Aren't sponsored links & "hit" words different?
Posted: 5/19/2004 4:38:53 PM

P: 5/19/2004 4:50:18 PM
daboyzmomi Cut Rock Total Posts: 182 Last Post: 9/8/2004 Member Since: 9/29/2003	Here is a good example of search bidding. On Overture, which is a sole subsidiary of Yahoo! now, you can acutally see which person is bidding on which term. The higher up on the list you are,,the more you are paying PER CLICK for that term. The term diamond for example has 94 advertisers bidding on the term. It isn't til the 95th placement that you have regular algorythmic search beginning (non-sponsored). Check it out and you might see it a little clearer. PS- I personally don't use Google due to the fact that their add bidding is rarely checked for content match, hence the reason why you get such out there finds on a search. Diamond Search Overture Also wanted to add-if you do the same search on Yahoo! for Diamonds, only the top 5 advertisers bidding on a word get "Sponsored" placement. The Top 20 Websites are all paid advertisers too, but get sent below.
Posted: 5/19/2004 4:50:18 PM

P: 5/25/2004 8:26:52 AM
Iceman Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,374 Last Post: 1/24/2008 Member Since: 8/26/2000	Trademarks in the Meta Tags of your web pages. This is illegal to do ------------------------------------------------------- Judge acts in By Dan Goodin Staff Writer September 15, 1997, 6:45 PM PT http://news.com.com/2100-1023-203251.html A federal judge issues a preliminary injunction forbidding a Web publisher from embedding keywords in its site that exploit the popularity of a competing site.
Posted: 5/25/2004 8:26:52 AM

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