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 » RockyTalky
»  » Comments on the price of this Princess diamond please!
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Comments on the price of this Princess diamond please! |
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| P: 5/4/2004 2:05:01 PM | |
jake65 Rough Rock Total Posts: 16 Last Post: 5/20/2004 Member Since: 5/2/2004 |
I have been shown the following Gia Cert diamond Shape: Square Modified Brilliant Measurements: 5.19 X 5.17 X 3.74 Weight: 0.82 Depth: 72.3% Table 76% Girdle: Medium to Slightly thick Cutlet: None Polish: Good Symmetry: Very Good Clarity: VVS1 Potential Color: D, none Flourescence: Medium Blue Comments: None I assume this a good diamond and would be a fair price be about 3800.00?
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| Posted: 5/4/2004 2:05:01 PM | |
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There are 18 replies to this message. There are 18 replies on this page. |
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| P: 5/4/2004 2:35:07 PM | |
Magnum Cut Rock Total Posts: 342 Last Post: 7/28/2004 Member Since: 3/26/2004 |
Don't know too much about princess cuts. One thing I noticed is that the table is a little big, making it at best a 2B cut according to the AGA cut grading chart (www.gemappraisers.com), which is still pretty good, I think. You are missing the crown angle, though, which is part of the equation in the AGA cut charts. That might be something else to ask for. One thing I've learned about fancy cuts is that they are pretty hard to judge by numbers alone. I think you'd probably be able to rule out some possiblities with numbers that are out to lunch, but if the numbers are in a decent range, like I think your stone is, it requires more examination to determine if it's a good cut, or a dud. Ask the vendor to provide an idealscope picture if possible, and it's always a good idea to use an independent appaiser to help you examine a diamond or a couple of diamonds once you've narrowed down your choices. godd luck
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| Posted: 5/4/2004 2:35:07 PM | |
| P: 5/4/2004 2:46:02 PM | |
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cmcwill Cut Rock Total Posts: 247 Last Post: 1/11/2005 Member Since: 2/26/2004 |
You might want to read GOG's tutorial on princess cut stones. goodoldgold.com I think its under learning stones, or something similar. One thing I would suggest is finding a stone with a table smaller than its depth. happy hunting! Colleen
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| Posted: 5/4/2004 2:46:02 PM | |
| P: 5/4/2004 3:11:06 PM | |
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Rob79 Rough Rock Total Posts: 51 Last Post: 9/7/2004 Member Since: 3/18/2004 |
The price seems a bit high, I just purchased a .85 CT princess and it was $2600 US, the depth was 68.9 and table was 72
it is a 1A on AGA charts even with the table at 72 as you are allowed 1 1B characteristic. I have noticed though that the Rap sheets increased the princess stones and that I can not find a diamond like mine for the price I paid for mine. Your proportions look nie but the table could be smaller and depth could be a bit shallower. Good luck in the hunt!
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| Posted: 5/4/2004 3:11:06 PM | |
| P: 5/4/2004 3:31:54 PM | |
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jake65 Rough Rock Total Posts: 16 Last Post: 5/20/2004 Member Since: 5/2/2004 |
How did you determine the AGA cut? I'd like to do the same, but don't I need a crown angle or depth to do so? and I can't seem to get that info?
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| Posted: 5/4/2004 3:31:54 PM | |
| P: 5/4/2004 3:42:07 PM | |
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Rob79 Rough Rock Total Posts: 51 Last Post: 9/7/2004 Member Since: 3/18/2004 |
This link will give you the info to see what an AGA grading is. Yes you do need Table, Crown Height, Girdle Thickness, Depth %, Table %
You can get these mesurements from a Sarin Report. You can ask the dealer to get them for you. Any other quetions just ask.
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| Posted: 5/4/2004 3:42:07 PM | |
| P: 5/4/2004 3:56:31 PM | |
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Magnum Cut Rock Total Posts: 342 Last Post: 7/28/2004 Member Since: 3/26/2004 |
You're right, you need the crown info to get a complete and accurate grade. I was just saying that one of the characteristics was in the 2B column of the chart, but i was mistaken on the best grade the stone could get. there are rules that go along with the chart, and you can have one characteristic that's not in the higher grade, and still get the higher grade if that one characteristic isn't too far out of parameters. it's all dependent on the crown angle in your case, since we don't know it, but if the crown angle was 2A or better, than the stone actually could be a 2A cut (with that single 2B table percentage) but unfortunately, even if all the other measurements fall into the 1A part of the chart, because of the table, the "best" grade the stone "could" get is 2A. The crown angle could be obtained if the vendor has a Sarin machine, but that's hit and miss, and depends further if the vendor has the stone in hand or is selling from a virtual list.
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| Posted: 5/4/2004 3:56:31 PM | |
| P: 5/4/2004 3:59:32 PM | |
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jake65 Rough Rock Total Posts: 16 Last Post: 5/20/2004 Member Since: 5/2/2004 |
So I just called GIA and they said essentially, in a Princess Cut, it nearly impossible to determine the quality by shear numbers, they said I should request a scope of the diamond and look at the diamond. So am I right to assume, even with the Crown Angle, if I punch the numbers into the AGA system, it still can't predict the quality/value of the stone.
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| Posted: 5/4/2004 3:59:32 PM | |
| P: 5/4/2004 4:17:45 PM | |
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Rob79 Rough Rock Total Posts: 51 Last Post: 9/7/2004 Member Since: 3/18/2004 |
Yes that is correct, using measurements just increases your chances of getting a great stone, does not insure like a round, there are beutiful stones in the 3a range even, if you are looking for a great looking square, you should look over at teh Jubilee at www.goodoldgold.com Amazing stuff going on there!!!!
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| Posted: 5/4/2004 4:17:45 PM | |
| P: 5/4/2004 4:36:31 PM | |
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Magnum Cut Rock Total Posts: 342 Last Post: 7/28/2004 Member Since: 3/26/2004 |
The AGA chart is a good guide, but is not a flawless predicter of quality/value. I like to think of it in somewhat of the same light as the HCA (for rounds only). I think it's a good tool when it's used to sort out possible diamonds for consideration. if a stone gets a good grade from the AGA chart or a good HCA score, then it is worthy of further considersation and optical evaluations. there are literally thousands of diamonds out there and it's tough to sort through them all and narrow down the field without something like the AGA or HCA. Once a diamond gets a good score, you can ask for idealscope pictures and brilliancescope results, if available, that can help further determine the optical properties of the diamond. After that, you can always use an experienced appraiser, who's seen thousands of diamonds, to help you evaluate the quality/value of the diamond. That's what they're trained for and get paid for. While you may have to shell out around $100, give or take, it seems to me to be well worth it when you're possibly spending thousands of dollars. And when you buy on the internet, you save way more than that on taxes.
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| Posted: 5/4/2004 4:36:31 PM | |
| P: 5/4/2004 5:19:40 PM | |
moremoremore Ideal Rock Total Posts: 6,825 Last Post: 2/9/2009 Member Since: 3/15/2004 |
A little high. Maybe by $600.00....Don't love it by the #s .... Do you love it when looking at it? I do think you could do better with price and cut quality!
______________________________ Stewart says: I'm good enough. I'm smart enough. And doggon'it, people like me. |
| Posted: 5/4/2004 5:19:40 PM | |
| P: 5/4/2004 5:53:54 PM | |
Giangi Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,530 Last Post: 10/29/2006 Member Since: 1/23/2003 |
Everything is possible with fancy shapes... But I can tell you that those numbers, especially on a D/VVS stone, don't make my heart beat faster.  My preference is for stones with a smaller table (more in the 65-72% range) with, possibly a >9% crown height. Another thing about this stone that I am not crazy about is the price. I think you could find better deals. I don't know if you're buying D,VVS for cultural reasons, but I think you could easily get an F/SI or GH/VS-SI in the 1ct rage at the same price.
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| Posted: 5/4/2004 5:53:54 PM | |
| P: 5/4/2004 10:07:26 PM | |
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Magnum Cut Rock Total Posts: 342 Last Post: 7/28/2004 Member Since: 3/26/2004 |
How about one of these? Superbcert 0.81 E VVS2 $4,068 Goodoldgold 0.81 F VS2 $3,241 Both vendors provide idealscope pictures and brilliancescope results so you can get a very good idea of the optical performance of the diamond. They both look amazing to me. 
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| Posted: 5/4/2004 10:07:26 PM | |
| P: 5/4/2004 10:30:17 PM | |
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Magnum Cut Rock Total Posts: 342 Last Post: 7/28/2004 Member Since: 3/26/2004 |
Here's another one from whiteflash with a pretty good idealscope picture. Whiteflash 0.92 E VS1 $3,898
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| Posted: 5/4/2004 10:30:17 PM | |
| P: 5/4/2004 11:08:23 PM | |
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
---------------- Gee! I didn't know out little 'scope is so famous...  BTW: what scope?  Whichever (B-scope, I-scope, S-scope, L-scope  ) they meant, I certainly agree - numbers are not going to be as good as nearly anything done to the stone in person!Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 5/4/2004 11:08:23 PM | |
| P: 5/5/2004 8:25:56 AM | |
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jake65 Rough Rock Total Posts: 16 Last Post: 5/20/2004 Member Since: 5/2/2004 |
Thanks for all the help everyone. I decided to pass on the diamond. I didn't feel right about it from the get go and it extended my budget more than I wanted. I really don't need a D, VVS1...its an engagement ring, and my g/f doesn't really care about the nuance quality. But the jeweler was selling me on the "you really don't get a chance to get a D VVS1 stone for this price" pitch. I ALMOST fell for it So, having said that...I guess I'm looking for about .75 carat, princess diamond with a nice sparkle in the 2500.00 range. Can it be done? And do you all have any suggestions? How about this diamond? http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=2416887
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| Posted: 5/5/2004 8:25:56 AM | |
| P: 5/5/2004 9:24:48 AM | |
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Giangi Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,530 Last Post: 10/29/2006 Member Since: 1/23/2003 |
We have too little info on that G/VS from whiteflash to determine whether it's a nice make or not. All I can tell you is that it's not going to look very square. Is that important for you? Out of the stones that have been posted, the one I prefer is the 0.81ct F/VS 2 from GOG. The price is a little higher than what you hoped to spend, but it's still cheaper than the D/VVS. _____________ |
| Posted: 5/5/2004 9:24:48 AM | |
| P: 5/5/2004 10:37:20 AM | |
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mountainrocks Rough Rock Total Posts: 34 Last Post: 6/8/2004 Member Since: 2/4/2004 |
jake65, It is totally possible to get a great princess cut in your price and size range. I just got a .92 G/SI2 (totally eye clean) AGA 1A cut with tons of sparkle and fire for about $2800. Mine is a Whiteflash expert selection. I loved working with them and it was great to be able to see Sarins and ideal scopes before we bought. I also NEVER would have bought an SI2 without talking to someone who had seen it and could tell me it was clean. Keep looking. Well cut princesses are amazingly different than the others, I've had several people in high end B&M stores ask me if I have a branded cut. Good luck.
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| Posted: 5/5/2004 10:37:20 AM | |
| P: 5/5/2004 8:54:56 PM | |
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Magnum Cut Rock Total Posts: 342 Last Post: 7/28/2004 Member Since: 3/26/2004 |
---------------- How about this one? DirtCheapDiamonds 0.73 G VS2 $2,339
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| Posted: 5/5/2004 8:54:56 PM | |
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