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 » RockyTalky
»  » clarity or color?
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clarity or color? |
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| P: 4/30/2004 11:44:47 PM | |
bogus Rough Rock Total Posts: 87 Last Post: 7/28/2005 Member Since: 3/22/2004 |
just wondered what all of you thought is most important color or clarity? Thanx 
Veronica Sampson |
| Posted: 4/30/2004 11:44:47 PM | |
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There are 19 replies to this message. There are 19 replies on this page. |
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| P: 4/30/2004 11:52:05 PM | |
aljdewey Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,236 Last Post: 2/11/2008 Member Since: 11/25/2002 |
I personally believe that color is much more visible to the greater bulk of folks than clarity is, and I'd choose better color over better clarity as long as the stone was eyeclean.
I'd rather put my money behind something I can see (improved color) than what I can't see (VS2 down to SI1).
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| Posted: 4/30/2004 11:52:05 PM | |
| P: 5/1/2004 12:46:58 AM | |
Magnum Cut Rock Total Posts: 342 Last Post: 7/28/2004 Member Since: 3/26/2004 |
I agree with what Al said. Most people would be very hard pressed to see any difference between a VS2 stone all the way up to an internally flawless stone. They might not even be able to pick out any face-up difference in an SI1 stone and in some occasions a good SI2 stone. I would shoot for no higher than a VS2 and if you can find an eye-clean SI1, so much the better. if you're as lucky as Al, you might even be able to find an eye-clean SI2 stone in a relatively large size, and use the saved money to uprade in size or color. Color is a little trickier. As far as color goes, a general rule is that color is not noticeable in adjacent grades, but is slightly noticeable when it is two grades off, like an F next to an H. However, if they weren't side by side, it would be harder to tell the difference. Color, in my opinion, is more of a personal preference kind of thing. There's nothing wrong with warmer colors, like I or J, and sometimes they face up very white, especially in ideal-cut stones, which by the way also hide inclusions better. it would be a good idea to look at different color ideal cut stones side by side, so you can determine what your color tolerance is and what you prefer. You may find that you prefer a little bit warmer stones, which will definitely save you some money. I know you just asked about color and clarity, but I'll go ahead and give my advice about the order of the five C's. First determine the cost, what your budget is. Then try to focus your search on ideal cut stones. (they'll "sparkle" the most, and they'll improve the face-up appearance of the stone's color and clarity). Then I'd try to find the largest stone that is "eye-clean" and faces up white. Hope this helps in your search. good luck.
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| Posted: 5/1/2004 12:46:58 AM | |
| P: 5/1/2004 12:48:57 AM | |
squirerad Cut Rock Total Posts: 120 Last Post: 6/25/2004 Member Since: 4/5/2004 |
What is "most" important? Well, neither would be my answer since Cut can visually improve both color and clarity. An ideal cut can improve the color of a diamond, making it appear whiter by reflecting a greater percentage of light entering it in the face up position (following the idea that black absorbs all light while white reflects all). But with all things being equal, IMHO color is 'more' important. Many PSers would rather not go below a G or H color to get a 'colorless' stone, while an eye-clean stone (i.e. one appearing flawless as though without inclusions) can be anything from a VS1/2 to an SI2. squire 
"Our country is defined by the rights we protect, and those of us who fought for freedom and put our lives on the line defended the right of people to do things that we disagree with. I would not be pleased to see someone burning the flag because I love the flag, but the Constitution that I fought for preserves the right of free expression." |
| Posted: 5/1/2004 12:48:57 AM | |
| P: 5/1/2004 1:01:57 AM | |
Rhino Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,865 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 3/29/2001 |
My first choice would *always* be cut. Color and clarity to me hold fairly equal importance but if push came to shove I might side with color. When a person can see the impact that cut has upon the diamonds face up appearance both color and clarity become secondary issues. Ie. if you were comparing an F and an H stone and the H stone has superior optics to the F I would recommend the lower color in this case hands down as it will outshine the F and surpass it in beauty.
Rhino |
| Posted: 5/1/2004 1:01:57 AM | |
| P: 5/1/2004 8:37:37 AM | |
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
Agreed with all of the above. Clarity and color would get the same weight, but there is something about the clarity gradind system that gives lots of excuses to go SI: the grades are not meant to establish what stones are 'eye clean' - and this is what matters for most (granted, at least some buyers started their PS threads saying: "I want high clarity for it's symbolic value"). It is much more straightforward to communicate wether a diamond is eye clean (whatever clarity grade) than to talk about ever-so-faint color shades. So it is far easier to tell when a 'compromise' on clarity is only 'on paper'. Color remains more subjective. It really depends on what you expect 'white' to look like in a colorless gem. Cut also provides very good excuse for a couple color grades in those H&A rounds. Also, it is less frequently reminded that the colors grades become phisically further apart down the scale (so D is a hair from E, but K is a mile away from L). Also, it is far easier to go into a store, look at a couple of GIA graded stones and decide wether a color grade is Ok with you - teh worse cut the diamond, the more any color 'tint' would show, so one can safely imply that a perfectly cut stone would show even less of the typical tint. On the other hand, inlcusions are not 'standard' - each diamond has them it's way so you need to see THAT stone to tell. Bottom line ? Even if you value color and clarity the same, it is safer to go down in clarity, if anything. Hope this helps Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 5/1/2004 8:37:37 AM | |
| P: 5/1/2004 4:42:58 PM | |
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bogus Rough Rock Total Posts: 87 Last Post: 7/28/2005 Member Since: 3/22/2004 |
okay, thanks everyone for your thoughts. now what do you think of this. all these diamonds are already set in plat setting round solitare h&a vs2 g 1.05ct $5100 vs2 h 1.13ct $5100 vs2 f .73ct $2986 not sure if i should go down in size to get the better color. all rings preform the same and are all very pretty. thanx for all your help. i hope to pick one today. 
Veronica Sampson |
| Posted: 5/1/2004 4:42:58 PM | |
| P: 5/1/2004 4:46:05 PM | |
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flubber Cut Rock Total Posts: 224 Last Post: 7/28/2007 Member Since: 10/13/2003 |
If they all perform the same, and you can't notice a difference in color (which I presume you wouldn't), then I would see no reason to get a smaller size just for the sake of a better color. I would never pay for something that I can't see, but that's just me. It might make you feel better knowing that it's an F color. Personally, I'd go for the 1.13ct H/VS2, given that the cut proprotions are right on. There's also almost a $2,000 difference between the .73 and 1.13, does your budget safely allow that much of a variance? These are all things to consider.
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| Posted: 5/1/2004 4:46:05 PM | |
| P: 5/1/2004 4:49:52 PM | |
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bogus Rough Rock Total Posts: 87 Last Post: 7/28/2005 Member Since: 3/22/2004 |
yes my budget is $5500 but I wanted to stay somewhere around $5000. do you think there is really that much difference between 1.05 and 1.13 or the between g an h in color? thanx
Veronica Sampson |
| Posted: 5/1/2004 4:49:52 PM | |
| P: 5/1/2004 4:57:48 PM | |
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flubber Cut Rock Total Posts: 224 Last Post: 7/28/2007 Member Since: 10/13/2003 |
In my [rather unexperienced] opinion, I'd venture to say that you'd notice a difference between 1.05ct and 1.13ct before you would between a G and an H color. I just bought a stone that was .81ct and the stone I was comparing it to was .75ct, so there's less of a difference in carat weight than in your comparison. Here's the difference between my stones, the .81ct is on the right: 
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| Posted: 5/1/2004 4:57:48 PM | |
| P: 5/1/2004 5:05:04 PM | |
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bogus Rough Rock Total Posts: 87 Last Post: 7/28/2005 Member Since: 3/22/2004 |
okay, well it looks like the 1.13 is the winner. i will think for a little longer and let you all know what i went with. everyone is so great on this site i have become addicted. thanx again and if anyone else has any other comments i would love to hear from you.
Veronica Sampson |
| Posted: 5/1/2004 5:05:04 PM | |
| P: 5/1/2004 5:07:27 PM | |
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flubber Cut Rock Total Posts: 224 Last Post: 7/28/2007 Member Since: 10/13/2003 |
Do you have any other stats on these stones such as cut porportions?
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| Posted: 5/1/2004 5:07:27 PM | |
| P: 5/1/2004 5:07:27 PM | |
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Magnum Cut Rock Total Posts: 342 Last Post: 7/28/2004 Member Since: 3/26/2004 |
---------------- The difference is .08 carats and 1 color grade. Is that "much difference"? Only you can say. Most people can't see the difference between a G and an H face-up. Others are color sensitive and can. Depending on the cut of the stone, the 1.05 stone may actually have a larger diameter. Really what matters is if there is a difference to you. It doesn't matter what anybody else thinks. You're the one that's going to be looking at it. If the cuts of the stone are as similar as you say they are, than what it might come down to is which stone calls to you and talks to you. Without any other info on the stones, it's hard to give more advice.
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| Posted: 5/1/2004 5:07:27 PM | |
| P: 5/2/2004 1:30:22 AM | |
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bogus Rough Rock Total Posts: 87 Last Post: 7/28/2005 Member Since: 3/22/2004 |
well, when i went to have a second look at the 1.13 vs2 h h&a stone it was a goner. oh well wasnt meant to be mine. so any way i went with the 1.05 vs2 g h&a stone and these are the stats hope i made a good choice the ring is set in a 4 prong platinum setting cost $5100. measures- 6.60-6.61 x 4.00mm ideal cut polish/symmetry- excellent/excellent table-56.5 crn angle-34.9 pavillion angle-40.7 crn height-15% pavillion depth-43% culet-none girdle-thin fluorescence-none igi cert and lazer inscribed any thoughts out there??? thanx again Veronica Sampson |
| Posted: 5/2/2004 1:30:22 AM | |
| P: 5/2/2004 1:36:33 AM | |
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bogus Rough Rock Total Posts: 87 Last Post: 7/28/2005 Member Since: 3/22/2004 |
oh yeah i forgot to mention i put all the specs in holloway advisor and came up with all 1a and one 1b. 
Veronica Sampson |
| Posted: 5/2/2004 1:36:33 AM | |
| P: 5/2/2004 3:49:34 AM | |
Dancing Fire Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,223 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 4/3/2004 |
---------------- IGI cert ? you better have a appraiser/gemologist look at it. it is always harder to find a "mind clean" stone than a eye clean stone. |
| Posted: 5/2/2004 3:49:34 AM | |
| P: 5/2/2004 6:42:56 AM | |
QueenMum Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,971 Last Post: 10/28/2009 Member Since: 2/13/2003 |
IGI Antwerp is pretty good this last years.
Stephan |
| Posted: 5/2/2004 6:42:56 AM | |
| P: 5/2/2004 9:03:20 AM | |
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bogus Rough Rock Total Posts: 87 Last Post: 7/28/2005 Member Since: 3/22/2004 |
i did take it to an appraiser he verified the measurement,culet,girdle,golor,claity and fluorescence and h&a. i can have him verify proportions but he would have to take diamond out of setting. i am not so sure i really want to do that he seemed pretty confident that they were probably as stated on the cert. hope i spelled everything ok i am writing this without my glasses
Veronica Sampson |
| Posted: 5/2/2004 9:03:20 AM | |
| P: 5/2/2004 10:03:32 AM | |
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valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
---------------- Well, those numbers are useful to predict brilliance when you do not have the stone in hand - other wise, any analysis performed on the onbject itself will me more accurate (the questio always is 'byt how much more" - and, absed on the pervasive experinece of the PS professional backing, we hope "not much"). So if the guy could ceck on the stone (and at leats the IdelScope and related tools work on set stones too), the result is already better than the numbers can tell you. ... no need to get the stone out of it's current place, in my view. Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 5/2/2004 10:03:32 AM | |
| P: 5/2/2004 10:24:32 AM | |
lop Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,651 Last Post: 9/7/2009 Member Since: 6/14/2003 |
It sounds like a beautiful stone. And it sounds as if it is what the cert says it is if the independent appraiser agrees, so congratulations! The bottom line is whether you love it or not. What your eyes see are more important that "scores", but it sounds as if you got both -- good scores and a stone you love! I think G/VS2 is a great combo. With that cut, I's be very surprised if you see any color.
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| Posted: 5/2/2004 10:24:32 AM | |
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