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 » RockyTalky
»  » Why the big $ difference btwn 1.4c VS 1.5 ct?
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Why the big $ difference btwn 1.4c VS 1.5 ct? |
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| P: 4/28/2004 12:41:40 PM | |
jumbojim Rough Rock Total Posts: 5 Last Post: 4/28/2004 Member Since: 3/30/2004 |
I found 2 diamonds, one a 1.44, another a 1.52. Both are identical on paper (GIA), both are H&A, scores same on HCA, both are identical in Color, Clarity and Cut, etc. The difference in price however, is $2k+, the 1.52 being more expensive. Why is it that 2 identical diamonds, other than in a small difference in size, would differ in price so greatly? Is it because 1.5c are harder to come by, demand?
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| Posted: 4/28/2004 12:41:40 PM | |
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There are 14 replies to this message. There are 14 replies on this page. |
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| P: 4/28/2004 1:16:02 PM | |
Shay37 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,343 Last Post: 8/30/2008 Member Since: 3/2/2004 |
Jim, from what I understand, there are a few benchmark weights where diamonds jump in price. These are so-called magic carat weights that cutters aim for. This is due to heavy-duty marketing from DeBeers that seem to make these weights more desirable for the public. I believe some of them are .75, 1.00, 1.5, 2.0, etc. I may have missed a few, but I am just a rookie and trying to give you an idea that will help to answer your question. Basically, the price per carat JUMPS at those magic weights. Most here will advise you to find a well-cut stone just under the magic number and avoid the premium you will pay to hit it on the mark.  Shay ______________________________My therapist loves me. His name is Brian the Cutter. |
| Posted: 4/28/2004 1:16:02 PM | |
| P: 4/28/2004 1:18:07 PM | |
Magnum Cut Rock Total Posts: 342 Last Post: 7/28/2004 Member Since: 3/26/2004 |
The diamond industry prices diamonds by giving them a "per carat" price. There are also benchmarks (sometimes called "magic numbers") where the "per carat" price changes, 1.5 carats being one of those benchmarks. So, as an example, a diamond between 1.4 and 1.49 carats will have the same price per carat, where as a diamond between 1.5 and 1.59 carats will have a higher price per carat. I don't know what all the benchmarks are or what all the exact price per carat are, but I know some big obvious benchmarks are 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, 3.0 carats, to name a few. You would think that a 2 carat would cost twice as much as a 1 carat, which would probably be the case if the supply were linear, i.e. just as many 2 carats as 1 carat diamonds. Unfortunately the supply is not linear. There are a lot less 2 carat stones than 1 carat stones. Therefore, the price increase is also not linear, in order to match the difference in supply. So, some good advice is to try to find diamonds that fall just shy of those price benchmarks so you get a cheaper price per carat, without sacrificing anything in size appearance, like the 1.44 carat diamond you found. Unfortunately, cutters are well aware of the price difference, so some cutters will try their best to get a 1.50 carat stone even if it sometimes means cutting a less perfect diamond, than one that would have been 1.45 carats. Also, diamonds that are cut just shy of those magic benchmarks tend to sell pretty fast due to their good value, which also makes them harder to find. Hope this helps. Good luck in your search, and if that 1.44 carat stone is one that appeals to you, it may be a good buy. if you can, post all the specs for the two diamonds you're looking at.
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| Posted: 4/28/2004 1:18:07 PM | |
| P: 4/28/2004 1:22:35 PM | |
Pricescope Administrator Total Posts: 8,265 Last Post: 1/5/2008 Member Since: 1/1/2000 |
There is substantial jump in price per carat when the carat weigh passes magic numbers (1.0ct, 1.5ct, 2.0ct, etc). E.g. difference in price per carat for G VS1 is about 23% below and above 1.5 ct. So unless 1.5 carat number is important for you, it is always cheaper to by "undersizes". There are other factors of course. Pricescope |
| Posted: 4/28/2004 1:22:35 PM | |
| P: 4/28/2004 1:26:51 PM | |
Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,922 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002 |
Honestly, I understand the whole benchmark weight thing, but I don't understand why it's still so prevalent. If I can get a 1.48c stone (that one in 1000 that is cut) for $2k less than a 1.52c stone...then WHY would I ever go for the 1.52c stone, esp when people round up for conversational purposes anyway? And if the difference in carat weight is so minmal, WHY is the markup so high? That benchmark 1c, 1.5c, 2c etc seems outdated in terms of pricing models. Esp with online shopping, where the differences seen between two stones like that are SO minimal, the shopper would have a really hard time paying for that higher carat weight and resulting cost jump. With an offline B&M, less details are often available, so possibly they can still sell that higher carat weight to a customer. But with online, everything is out there and exposed.
Personally I think that those old benchmarks should be done away with...this of course lets me buy bigger stones without having such a damn markup attached!
 No personal agenda here AT ALL!  ________________________________ |
| Posted: 4/28/2004 1:26:51 PM | |
| P: 4/28/2004 1:29:08 PM | |
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jumbojim Rough Rock Total Posts: 5 Last Post: 4/28/2004 Member Since: 3/30/2004 |
Ah..Thanks for the info. Also, should there be any concern over FAINT Fluro? Anyways, here are the specs: Diamond #1 H&A Round GIA certified 7.32 - 7.35 x 4.46 1.44 carat Depth -60.9% Table - 57% Girdle - thin to medium, faceted Culet - .3% CROWN ANGLE - 34.5 PAV ANGLE - 40.9 Polish - Ex Symmetry - Ex Clarity - VS1 Color - G Fluorescence - Faint Diamond #2 H&A Round GIA certified 7.44 - 7.47 x 4.55 1.52 carat Depth -61% Table - 55% Girdle - medium to slightly thick, faceted Culet - .1% CROWN ANGLE - 34.2 PAV ANGLE - 400.8 Polish - Ex Symmetry - Ex Clarity - VS1 Color - G Fluorescence - Faint
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| Posted: 4/28/2004 1:29:08 PM | |
| P: 4/28/2004 3:25:03 PM | |
aljdewey Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,236 Last Post: 2/11/2008 Member Since: 11/25/2002 |
---------------- _____________________ |
| Posted: 4/28/2004 3:25:03 PM | |
| P: 4/28/2004 4:25:46 PM | |
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chialea Ideal Rock Total Posts: 520 Last Post: 9/3/2004 Member Since: 4/20/2004 |
Does anyone know if one of the magic points is ~.75?
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| Posted: 4/28/2004 4:25:46 PM | |
| P: 4/28/2004 4:41:44 PM | |
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Pricescope Administrator Total Posts: 8,265 Last Post: 1/5/2008 Member Since: 1/1/2000 |
0.23 0.30 0.38 0.46 0.50 0.70 0.90 1.00 1.50 2.00 3.00 4.00 5.00 There is another factor - availability. E.g. there are more diamonds available in 1.0-1.1ct range than 1.25. So you can expect better per carat prices for 1.0-1.1ct diamonds. Pricescope |
| Posted: 4/28/2004 4:41:44 PM | |
| P: 4/28/2004 6:45:01 PM | |
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Brian Knox Cut Rock Total Posts: 337 Last Post: 2/5/2005 Member Since: 3/26/2004 |
"...If I can get a 1.48c stone (that one in 1000 that is cut) for $2k less than a 1.52c stone...then WHY would I ever go for the 1.52c stone,..." It is rare to find an ideal cut stone very near (just under) one of these more important(expensive) size/price breaks. For example, a 1.48 carat ideal cut round diamond could of easily been maintained as a 1.50-1.55 carat round and thus worth another 25% or more per carat, plus the additional weight that is cut off to cut an ideal cut. As these "value" sizes approach the magic mark they also tend to go up in price per carat. Brian Knox |
| Posted: 4/28/2004 6:45:01 PM | |
| P: 4/28/2004 6:48:27 PM | |
Hest88 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,680 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 1/22/2003 |
Are they from the same dealer? If not, a simple answer could just have to do with different markups.
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| Posted: 4/28/2004 6:48:27 PM | |
| P: 4/28/2004 7:07:17 PM | |
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Magnum Cut Rock Total Posts: 342 Last Post: 7/28/2004 Member Since: 3/26/2004 |
---------------- To answer your question, there shouldn't be any concern over faint flourescence. It should not be noticeable, except maybe under strong black lights. Faint flourescence is more of just an identifying characteristic of the diamond. Some people even prefer flourescence up to Medium blue flourescence, and unless it is very strong blue flourescence, chances are it will not adversely affect the appearance of the diamond. Thanks for posting the specs. Since you mentioned the HCA, I'm assuming you know the crown/pavillion angles. Those would be nice to know if you could post them, and any other pictures you might have are always welcome.
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| Posted: 4/28/2004 7:07:17 PM | |
| P: 4/28/2004 7:24:12 PM | |
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jumbojim Rough Rock Total Posts: 5 Last Post: 4/28/2004 Member Since: 3/30/2004 |
Ok, angles are posted on original specs post. How do they compare?
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| Posted: 4/28/2004 7:24:12 PM | |
| P: 4/28/2004 8:21:15 PM | |
lop Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,651 Last Post: 9/7/2009 Member Since: 6/14/2003 |
They both look like great stones. Not a lot of difference between them really. The HCA is a little better on #2, but in this range, it doesn't claim an accuracy to be able to make final decisions by. #2 is slightly larger, but as you say is $2k more. Maybe you should have them both sent to an appraiser near you so that you can let your eyes be the final judge, and see if one appeals to you more than the other. If that isn't practical, I guess I'd consider whether it was worth the extra $2k to get a very slightly larger stone. I don't think you can go wrong with either stone. The fluorescence is minor, and many people prefer a little fluorescence. If anything it might make it sparkle ever so slightly more in certain light.
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| Posted: 4/28/2004 8:21:15 PM | |
| P: 4/28/2004 9:29:37 PM | |
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Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,922 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002 |
Brian, exactly my point.
If there were not these magic carat benchmarks, cutters would not be tempted to add a thicker girdle or a deeper pavilion in order to get that magic carat benchmark and therefore reap more $$$ for themselves and the vendors. They would cut for the best stone out of the rough regardless of the magic carat weight. Better for the consumer of course, less money most likely for the vendors. As I'm a consumer...eh....I like the idea.
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| Posted: 4/28/2004 9:29:37 PM | |
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