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 » Colored Stones
»  » Spessartine mandarin orange garnets
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Spessartine mandarin orange garnets |
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| P: 4/23/2004 11:11:31 PM | |
Nate Cut Rock Total Posts: 207 Last Post: 10/14/2008 Member Since: 5/17/2003 |
Hey guys! Sorry I've been MIA for so long. Busy with Real Life (tm).  I have some gem related questions and was hoping you guys could help me out.My dad has bought a ton (22x1ct rounds and 22x1.8ct ovals) of these spessartine mandarin orange garnets. His idea is to have them mounted in simple platinum earrings and to sell them. How much should he have to pay to have these mounted? Including the platinum studs with screw backs. How much can he reasonably expect to charge per carat? They are not redish. Is there a premium for pure orange color spessartine garnets? Are these stones a rare thing to find? Is there much of a market for selling them? He obtained these from the ACN shopping network. I've always hated the jewelry channels on TV and have tried to convince my dad not to watch. IMO, they brainwash people until they buy things. Is everything they sell crap or can you actually find good buys there? Can ayone explain some good reasons not to buy anything from these guys? |
| Posted: 4/23/2004 11:11:31 PM | |
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There are 21 replies to this message. There are 21 replies on this page. |
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| P: 4/24/2004 2:45:52 AM | |
Richard Sherwood Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,879 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 9/25/2002 |
----------- My dad has bought a ton (22x1ct rounds and 22x1.8ct ovals) of these spessartine mandarin orange garnets. His idea is to have them mounted in simple platinum earrings and to sell them. ----------- Spessartine mandarin orange garnets are semi-precious stones. Platinum is really not appropriate for semi-precious stones. People looking to buy semi-precious stone earrings are not going to be looking to pay the hefty premium that platinum commands. I would suggest mounting them in 14 karat yellow gold, if they are nice stones. ----------- How much should he have to pay to have these mounted? Including the platinum studs with screw backs. ----------- Forget the platinum, forget the screw backs (they're expensive too). Just make a deal with a local goldsmith to buy earring mountings out of the Stuller catalog. Tell the jeweler you'd like to pay him a small premium on the mountings and his normal (hopefully wholesale) cost for labor. ----------- How much can he reasonably expect to charge per carat? ----------- It all depends on how well he bought them. If he paid wholesale, he might be able to make a 30 to 100% profit on the spessartines, and a 20 to 50% profit on the mountings and labor. This is provided he finds a customer who likes the earrings, and is willing to pay retail to a private individual. This might be tricky, as they can buy retail earrings all day long from their local jeweler. The way to beat this is to try and sell for less than the local jeweler will sell for. This also might be tricky, as jewelers usually tend to have established sources which sell them fine stones at good wholesale prices. ----------- They are not redish. Is there a premium for pure orange color spessartine garnets? ----------- The orange spessartine garnets with a red modifying hue usually bring a premium. ----------- Are these stones a rare thing to find? ----------- In the world of garnets, yes, spessartine garnets are more rare than the average garnet. Not nearly as rare as tsavorite or demantoid garnet, but more rare than your garden variety garnet. ----------- Is there much of a market for selling them? ----------- The television networks are doing great with them. Most the local jewelers I talk to are doing so-so with them. Custom jewelers with gem quality stones in unusual mountings tend to do pretty good with them. ----------- He obtained these from the ACN shopping network. I've always hated the jewelry channels on TV and have tried to convince my dad not to watch. IMO, they brainwash people until they buy things. Is everything they sell crap or can you actually find good buys there? ----------- The majority of shopping networks tend to sell low to medium quality stones at fairly good prices. Sometimes even very good prices, in the neighborhood of wholesale. They have large buying power, and can make up for in volume what they lose in heavy discounts. Still, they tend to get the "leftovers" from a gem dealers inventory. The gem dealer realizes that he can get more for the fine to gem quality stones from savvy dealers (and consumers) who recognize quality. On TV, quality is wasted. Nobody can tell the difference, and the people watching are usually looking for price points versus quality. There may be exceptions to this, but it is a pretty good rule-of-thumb. ----------- Can ayone explain some good reasons not to buy anything from these guys? ----------- Nobody should buy anything with the intention of resale without knowing the market intimately. To buy for your own personal enjoyment is one thing, to buy for resale is another thing entirely. You need an experienced eye combined with practical knowledge combined with savvy sales ability combined with a customer base in order to move jewelry to the public. A lot of people get sucked in by the shopping networks "volume deals" which seem too good to be true. It's not until afterwards that they discover that only a small percentage of the stones are fine enough quality to attract buying attention, or that most of them don't match in color, clarity, or size, or that they paid too much for them, or that they need to make a considerable investment in mountings in order to make them saleable, etc, etc, etc. It's like buying stocks without carefully researching the market, or without using the services of a stockbroker who is intimately familiar with the market. Then again (as a disclaimer) I could be totally wrong and your Dad might do great selling the earrings to friends, family and strangers... Rich, Independent GG Appraiser |
| Posted: 4/24/2004 2:45:52 AM | |
| P: 4/29/2004 7:20:01 AM | |
Richard W. Wise Cut Rock Total Posts: 349 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 11/16/2003 |
Richard, SEMI-PRECIOUS; A DISTINCTION WITHOUT A DIFFERENCE; Semi-precious, oh how I hate that word. If such categories are meaningful how are they defined. What is the definition of a "precious gemstone"? Emerald is a beryl colored green by chromium & vanadium. Tsavorite is a garnet colored green by chromium and vanadium. Tsavorite has twice the dispersion and potentially much greater brilliance. it is also several hundred times rarer. What makes tsavorite semi-precious and emerald precious? I am surprised to see a professional using this word. What does it mean? Do you really want to disparage a rare and beautiful gem by calling it SEMI anything. Is it semi-rare, semi-beautiful? Did you know that the word semi-precious did not occur in English until the 19th century? If semi-precious stones exist, I challenge anyone to provide a definition of precious gem, not a list mind you but, a definition. Dick Richard W. Wise G.G., author, Secrets Of The Gem TradeThe Connoisseur's Guide To Precious Gemstones. |
| Posted: 4/29/2004 7:20:01 AM | |
| P: 5/4/2004 7:59:31 PM | |
Wink Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,032 Last Post: 11/17/2009 Member Since: 5/4/2001 |
Richard, I have to agree with Sagebrush. The enclosed orange garnet is $2,200. How can that be semi anything? I think the term semi-precious is a term developed by jewelers to shoot themselves in the foot with. I have sold a ten thousand dollar amethyst ring that I would not dare tell the person who bought it that it was only semi-precious. Likewise I have seen diamond rings that were made with "frozen spit" quality diamonds, you know the drek, LMNOP color I3 semi-opaque diamonds that perhaps should be called semi-doodoo. I don't dissagree with you often, but I think that is a poor term to use, even if you are correct about the stones in question not being expensive and perhaps being better suited for gold than platinum. Just a thought. Wink  Wink Jones |
| Posted: 5/4/2004 7:59:31 PM | |
| P: 5/5/2004 10:48:15 PM | |
Richard M. Ideal Rock Total Posts: 929 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 2/17/2004 |
I agree on the discussion about semi-precious. I have many silicates (including garnets) worth a lot more and much prettier than many diamonds. The Homer spessartite is very pretty but you don't mention the weight or dimensions either here or at your own site. I'm curious. How big is it? Richard M. |
| Posted: 5/5/2004 10:48:15 PM | |
| P: 5/5/2004 10:54:25 PM | |
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Richard Sherwood Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,879 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 9/25/2002 |
Can I take it back? Not the advice, but the "semi-precious"... Rich, Independent GG Appraiser |
| Posted: 5/5/2004 10:54:25 PM | |
| P: 5/6/2004 11:55:37 AM | |
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Richard M. Ideal Rock Total Posts: 929 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 2/17/2004 |
Richard, "Semi-precious" in haste, repent at leisure.  I wouldn't have piled on except for wanting to know the size of Wink's spessartite. As far as I'm concerned you're forgiven. It's encouraging that such an incorrect term is now being rejected by the Trade. As a colored stone guy I've long been angered at the irony: jewelers themselves have been the biggest obstacle to educating consumers to appreciate beautiful, valuable and rare colored gems by automatically devaluing them as "semi-precious." I'm happy that's beginning to change. Richard M. |
| Posted: 5/6/2004 11:55:37 AM | |
| P: 5/6/2004 12:18:19 PM | |
katbadness Cut Rock Total Posts: 459 Last Post: 8/25/2005 Member Since: 1/29/2004 |
Richard, but is it across the board and universal?? Or just in specific localities, namely here in the US? For example: I happened to be visiting a friend of the family who's a gem dealer in Jakarta, Indonesia, one time. This guy specializes in "precious stones" only. I brought one of the stones in my collection -- a paraiba tourmaline -- to show him since I really wanted to know what he thinks (and hoping he'd have some so I could purchase some from him!  ). When I did show it to him, I could see that he was mesmerized by the color, then he asked what it was. I said "paraiba tourmaline". He promptly commented... "Oh.. it's a tourmaline, it's a cheap stone".  
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| Posted: 5/6/2004 12:18:19 PM | |
| P: 5/6/2004 4:00:08 PM | |
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
----------------  Precious, semi and non...It's a rather interesting debate on the concept an market use of "value" if anyone feels inclined to dust off such debate. But with all the confusion, it's way easier to go for what you like ! with all the drawbacks...  Well, you must have seen Wise's book and the intro on what makes stones precious: color, hardness and brilliance, he says . (LINK) However, what does the word "rhodonite" tell you? And there are a couple more... There must be an effective (although 'very' debatable and uncertain) cut between preciousl, semi- and non- . Otherwise this thread would not exist! If price is the expression of it, than... one may choose to abide by the other extreme definition according to which "gem quality" is what makes anything precious - and this would be applicabe to any piece of mineral of exceptional value relative to other members of it's specises (so a 10 carat Burma Sapphire is a 'gem' but a 1 carat is not Or, along the same line, a fine agate intaglio is a 'gem' while agate well, building material ).Is there yet another take on this ? The three mentioned on this thread already are all I know... aside the less common ethnic or religious systems (Indian, Burmese, or others, more or less religious). Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 5/6/2004 4:00:08 PM | |
| P: 5/6/2004 4:07:45 PM | |
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valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
Hm... and from the pics below it seem sthat, whenever not theoretising and talking technicals, quite a few woud agree that these gems mean something to the touch - otherwise why handle them so much ?! There is at least one representation of "gem-in-hand" in any gem book I know (bar the technical articles form gem labs). And these guys must know something, if anyone does... Online pictures from: ruby-sapphire; secretsofthegemtrade, and palagems.  Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 5/6/2004 4:07:45 PM | |
| P: 5/6/2004 7:32:15 PM | |
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Wink Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,032 Last Post: 11/17/2009 Member Since: 5/4/2001 |
---------------- Now that was funny! I am sorry that I failed to mention the size of the stone it is 2.96cts. It measures 8.76 x 7.86 x 5.12mms. If you love bright orange, then this stone will make your heart VERY happy! Wink Wink Jones |
| Posted: 5/6/2004 7:32:15 PM | |
| P: 5/6/2004 11:04:11 PM | |
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Richard M. Ideal Rock Total Posts: 929 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 2/17/2004 |
I think Wise is right: the market decides. Anything, a house, a hat, a 10-carat Burmese sapphire is "worth" exactly what someone will pay for it at any given time. Many things factor into the perception of value and the same item will bring different amounts in different cultures and venues at different times. Tiffany can sell a squiggle of 14 K. gold as a pin for $1,200. But customers are buying the Tiffany Blue Box and designer's name, not the "thing in itself." I could make something almost identical and sell it for maybe a 50% mark-up on a good day. I'm afraid you're going to have to explain to me what you mean about "rhodonite." Rhodonite (rhodo = rose, ite = a suffix denoting mineral names) is an opaque manganese metasilicate used mainly in cabochons and ornamental stones. Again I agree with Wise when he says that for true stone lovers, a gem described as "semiprecious" is a buying opportunity. That statement's a bit broad but I sure wish I'd stocked up on that affordable "semiprecious" zoisite from Mererani back in the 70s and early 80s before it became so popular that someone decided to call it a "precious gem" 3-4 years ago. Come to think of it there were some very fine buys on green grossular garnet and color-change garnet back then too. Richard M. |
| Posted: 5/6/2004 11:04:11 PM | |
| P: 5/6/2004 11:06:49 PM | |
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Richard M. Ideal Rock Total Posts: 929 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 2/17/2004 |
Thanks for the info Wink. I have a client I'll mention the stone to. She's looking at several other stones but she might like yours. Richard M. |
| Posted: 5/6/2004 11:06:49 PM | |
| P: 5/7/2004 1:26:44 AM | |
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Wink Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,032 Last Post: 11/17/2009 Member Since: 5/4/2001 |
Thanks Richard. Call me at 1 800 524-7904 if you want to talk about this stone. I am always happy to assist a fellow jeweler, just as so many of them have assisted me over the years. Wink Wink Jones |
| Posted: 5/7/2004 1:26:44 AM | |
| P: 5/8/2004 12:10:58 AM | |
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Richard Sherwood Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,879 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 9/25/2002 |
Stunning stone Wink. That Homer is something, isn't he? Rich, Independent GG Appraiser |
| Posted: 5/8/2004 12:10:58 AM | |
| P: 5/14/2004 11:24:46 AM | |
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Wink Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,032 Last Post: 11/17/2009 Member Since: 5/4/2001 |
Thanks Richard. Richard Homer is indeed a veritable genius. I was fortunate enough to have hired him a week or two before he graduated from GIA and I introduced him to a local "hobbiest" faceter who taught him to facet. I even bought him his first faceting machine which he paid for many times over by faceting incredible stones for me long before he got involved with the revolutionary concave faceting that he is now famous for. We chose different career paths and he worked several years at GIA as an instructor before setting off on his own, but we have been friends and business associates since the day we met. My relationship with him is just one of the many gifts given to me by this wonderful Universe we live in. I get so enthused about his concave facets that I frequently forget about the stunning things he can do with flat facets. Wink  Wink Jones |
| Posted: 5/14/2004 11:24:46 AM | |
| P: 5/14/2004 12:23:53 PM | |
coldfusion Rough Rock Total Posts: 50 Last Post: 12/20/2008 Member Since: 11/4/2002 |
Wink, that snowflake is awesome. you've got a PM. |
| Posted: 5/14/2004 12:23:53 PM | |
| P: 5/14/2004 1:55:25 PM | |
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Wink Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,032 Last Post: 11/17/2009 Member Since: 5/4/2001 |
It did not get here. Did you get the pics I sent you?
Wink Jones |
| Posted: 5/14/2004 1:55:25 PM | |
| P: 5/14/2004 6:44:18 PM | |
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coldfusion Rough Rock Total Posts: 50 Last Post: 12/20/2008 Member Since: 11/4/2002 |
I got the small sapphire. The viewer doesn't work, but no matter, i could open the file with all the individual pics. Please email me any others at abboud5 AT comcast DOT net . Thanks  Chris |
| Posted: 5/14/2004 6:44:18 PM | |
| P: 5/14/2004 7:20:00 PM | |
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Wink Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,032 Last Post: 11/17/2009 Member Since: 5/4/2001 |
Try going here, I put up the 4.27 and the 1.78ct sapphires, I sent you three emails this morning but you only got one. Darn. http://winkjones.com/cgi-bin/inclin?inview=B1-386&cat=1&pid=375 Let me know if you can see the rotating stone on my site, but there is a normal picture there too. I will put the ruby up tomorrow. Wink going to lunch now, it is 5:17 and I am HUNGRY! Whew, what a wonderful day! Wink Jones |
| Posted: 5/14/2004 7:20:00 PM | |
| P: 6/15/2004 5:45:34 PM | |
Sanellina Rough Rock Total Posts: 3 Last Post: 6/15/2004 Member Since: 6/15/2004 |
I will comment on ACN TV. It is one of the Jewelery shows on TV that will actually tell you the truth. They tell you up front they base their prices on what they paid for the items not what the wholesale market deems a good price. They state when you buy your stones to have them appraised in your area. We all know that gems appraise different depending on where you live. I bought a .50Ct Tanzanite from them for $29.99 Took it out appraised for $985. Are they a good company hell yeah. If you dont know the value of your gems your buying research them before you buy or have them appraised.
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| Posted: 6/15/2004 5:45:34 PM | |
| P: 6/15/2004 9:17:25 PM | |
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Wink Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,032 Last Post: 11/17/2009 Member Since: 5/4/2001 |
I do not wish to be rude, but I doubt the qualifications of your appraiser. I have and have sold some of the finest tanzanites in captivity, and there just aren't any half carat stones worth $985, especially that could be bought for $29.95. I know that we in the trade have a reputation for getting good markups, but if I could get those kind of markups I would be writing this from the carribiean between dives on my private dive boat... Wink Wink Jones |
| Posted: 6/15/2004 9:17:25 PM | |
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