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 » RockyTalky
»  » what happens when your AGS 0 cut is no longer ideal?...
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what happens when your AGS 0 cut is no longer ideal?... |
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| P: 4/11/2004 6:07:09 PM | |
Dancing Fire Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,218 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 4/3/2004 |
when and if AGS decides to tighten their standard (which they should,0 cuts are too common now) for an ideal cut, or when GIA comes out with their cut grade. i know it still sparkles like always. but will the price goes down, for those vendors who still have these 0 cut stones in their inventory, since it's no longer an ideal cut?
it is always harder to find a "mind clean" stone than a eye clean stone. |
| Posted: 4/11/2004 6:07:09 PM | |
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There are 19 replies to this message. There are 19 replies on this page. |
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| P: 4/11/2004 6:45:31 PM | |
lop Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,651 Last Post: 9/7/2009 Member Since: 6/14/2003 |
Doesn't this same risk when GIA starts grading cuts? cut grading by GIA will be good for new buyers, but it might hurt people who thought they had purchased ideal or super ideal cut stones if they don't fall into whatever GIA calls their best cuts. What do the experts in the know think on this one?
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| Posted: 4/11/2004 6:45:31 PM | |
| P: 4/11/2004 7:23:18 PM | |
Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,577 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
What about the lucky few who will find thier AGS 10's are now considered to be ideal 
Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 4/11/2004 7:23:18 PM | |
| P: 4/11/2004 7:51:10 PM | |
Pricescope Administrator Total Posts: 8,265 Last Post: 1/5/2008 Member Since: 1/1/2000 |
----------------Check out this AGS-10 stone: http://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=14496. Not too bad if there is no Fisheye. Pricescope |
| Posted: 4/11/2004 7:51:10 PM | |
| P: 4/11/2004 8:18:53 PM | |
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Dancing Fire Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,218 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 4/3/2004 |
---------------- Cut Nut, Let's say AGS or GIA decides to go with your HCA system, anything with a score above 1.5 is not an ideal cut. Wouldn't that eliminate alot of 0 cut that is out there today? If AGS or GIA adapt something like a stone with a pavilion angle of greater than 40.9 degree is no longer ideal. Or a table diameter now must be between 54 - 56% By the way, how many AGS 10's have you seen? Aren't they extremely rare? Is it better to look for a stone with all 8 pavilion angles less than 41 degree (something like 40.6 to 40.8) rather than their average? Which can be a wide range. it is always harder to find a "mind clean" stone than a eye clean stone. |
| Posted: 4/11/2004 8:18:53 PM | |
| P: 4/11/2004 8:35:42 PM | |
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Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,577 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
V Tigger check out how tiny the AGS 0 range is on say a diamond with a 56% table size by using HCA. The upper right corner gets a bad score. But there are millions of other proportion combinations that do well. And I bet you will see a lot more of these shallow crown AGS 10's after GIA release their system
Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 4/11/2004 8:35:42 PM | |
| P: 4/11/2004 9:03:55 PM | |
dimonbob Ideal Rock Total Posts: 660 Last Post: 10/30/2009 Member Since: 12/13/2000 |
I think I posted that question about a week ago. I was trying to stir up some interest. What will happen? Will it happen? When will it happen? I would not worry about it. I have several "ideal cut" diamonds of my own and if GIA or AGS says they are no longer "ideal" that will not take away from the beauty or value of what I have my wife wearing right now. What would happen if GIA and AGS recognized the Super Ideal Cut and the Super White (those diamonds that are whiter than the Master D diamond? I don't think that is going to happen. Are there any diamonds that are whiter than D? Oh yes! What does the certificate say...D. Now that should make you think! Do I want one, Yes! Would I pay extra for it, Yes! Where are they? Who knows. We cannot sit around playing with what ifs. What if the world ends next week. My diamonds will not be worth anything! So what...you will not know it because you will not be here. dimonbob, GG |
| Posted: 4/11/2004 9:03:55 PM | |
| P: 4/11/2004 9:11:25 PM | |
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Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,577 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
GIA and GTL staff are very busy right now telling everyone that the time is near. They have been telling us that for a long time - but never needed to get busy to tell us DBob. We will know their proportions soon I think - they will need at least 6 months of telling cutters how and what to submit for a good grade before they release the system. Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 4/11/2004 9:11:25 PM | |
| P: 4/11/2004 10:48:01 PM | |
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lop Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,651 Last Post: 9/7/2009 Member Since: 6/14/2003 |
---------------- True -- once you own a diamond, you should just love it and not worry about it's value. However, I think the issue is obvious for the AGS 10's that peg the perfect combination of numbers, but not obvious for the stones that have been classified as as "ideal", but may no longer be. No matter how much I love my stones, I'd rather not find out they are no longer ideal, when I paid the ideal premium. I guess my question is how likely is this to happen with the new grading criteria?
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| Posted: 4/11/2004 10:48:01 PM | |
| P: 4/11/2004 11:45:04 PM | |
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Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,577 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
Lop this little top corner is the area cutters aim for because it usually gives them a better yield. I would guess that about 1/3rd of AGS 0's would be within this range. But as you say, once a diamond has been purchased it immediately becomes (and should too) a symbol of love and bonding. so who cares?  Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 4/11/2004 11:45:04 PM | |
| P: 4/12/2004 12:10:27 AM | |
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Dancing Fire Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,218 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 4/3/2004 |
---------------- LOP I agree 100%. If I pay a premium for an ideal H&A and woke up the next morning and is no longer an ideal stone, that would really upset me. I'm sure it would upset lots of other consumers too. It's not a matter of if, it's when GIA introduce their cut grade. We better hope that our stone is still an top ideal cut grade or else we can buy the same stone for a lot less. it is always harder to find a "mind clean" stone than a eye clean stone. |
| Posted: 4/12/2004 12:10:27 AM | |
| P: 4/12/2004 12:32:19 AM | |
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
---------------- Gee... that diamond must have gotten a really bad sleep!  Standards are born and burned much faster than diamonds tarnish. Fashion affects the preference for types of all gems, only most likely muuch slower thna it does for diamonds with their fast and furious industry attached. So? Why not get a stone with great numbers regardless ? The best cut diamonds will always have to be included in the range of whatever top brand/name/grade is made up, simply because the range of proportions is given by some mathematical model, not the maker of the brand. So the most brilliant H&A might change their name, but they will have a new one next day, no worries Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 4/12/2004 12:32:19 AM | |
| P: 4/12/2004 12:37:00 AM | |
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lop Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,651 Last Post: 9/7/2009 Member Since: 6/14/2003 |
Garry, I'm still going to love my diamonds, as I'm sure others will too. But for the ones that I've purchased semi-recently, since the whole "ideal" cut marketing has started, I'll be very disappointed it I find I paid an ideal premium and they aren't ideal anymore. I don't think anyone wants to hear this. I'm hoping this won't happen -- I'm hoping that the new grading criteria is a refinement of what this forum has been telling people for a while, not a small subset or a dramatic change. Your chart answers my questions, at least percentage-wise, about how the directions are going, if I am correct in my interpretations. It looks as if a fairly small percentage of what has been considered "ideal" that may fall outside of the new criteria, not a large percentage and there is not a dramatically different criteria. We've all known that AGS000 ranges are too wide and unspecific to be a guarantee, so my assumption is that those who pay attention to more than just the wide AGS000 ranges, and more about how the stone looks and how the specs interact will be ok. I hope that is true. Lastly, these changes also make me wonder if my current GIA certs are going to be worth less, and if I will have to have my stones recertified in the future for whatever reasons (insurance, etc.) Any thoughts on that?
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| Posted: 4/12/2004 12:37:00 AM | |
| P: 4/12/2004 7:50:32 AM | |
69gm Cut Rock Total Posts: 287 Last Post: 11/18/2004 Member Since: 4/28/2003 |
this is a very interesting subject. and like the spineless jellyfish i am, i agree with everyone. yes i will still love the diamond i bought. i think i got it for a good price at the time. will i be upset if my AGS 000 is no longer categorized as such. maybe a little, since i spent so much time looking for one that met my criteria (i admit i was a slight number geek at the time i was looking for my diamond)...especially if it means i could've paid less for the same stone. but things change in value all the time. i'm just happy that the diamond always sparkles like mad and my fiancee still gets great compliments on it. besides if monetary value was that important to me, i'd be more upset about all that enron stock i currently use to wipe my......  (just kidding...)
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| Posted: 4/12/2004 7:50:32 AM | |
| P: 4/12/2004 8:01:09 AM | |
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valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
So... does anyone think that whatever jewelry material does not hold it's value over time is not 'precious' or not desirable ?  Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 4/12/2004 8:01:09 AM | |
| P: 4/12/2004 8:11:07 AM | |
strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003 |
some do val.... Me Id be just as happy if diamonds dropped to $1.00 a ct tomorrow :} ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K |
| Posted: 4/12/2004 8:11:07 AM | |
| P: 4/12/2004 10:57:15 AM | |
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lop Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,651 Last Post: 9/7/2009 Member Since: 6/14/2003 |
---------------- I don't think that is the issue. To me I just don't want to know that I just recently spent a lot of money based on today's theories of what is best and have a new theory make them not worth that premium anymore. The issue is did I overpay by buying into this theory rather than are they still valuable. It doesn't sound as if that will be the case. and...it's not keeping me up at night, I'm just curious about how it is all going to shake out.
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| Posted: 4/12/2004 10:57:15 AM | |
| P: 4/12/2004 3:59:07 PM | |
Superidealist Ideal Rock Total Posts: 655 Last Post: 8/23/2006 Member Since: 9/10/2003 |
Once the GIA has rendered judgement on what sets of proportions it sees as best, there may be a small window of opportunity for people to get something of a deal. Of all sets of favored proportions, cutters will choose to cut those that give greatest weight retention while consumers will value those that give the greatest apparent size for weight. Until the market catches up and vendors start charging a premium for these - as they do now for hearts and arrows - people may be able to get some good buys. Of course you could just go with what people like Garry and Serg are saying now and possibly get an even better deal by avoiding the markup that will be charged for GIA annointment. D Riley |
| Posted: 4/12/2004 3:59:07 PM | |
| P: 4/13/2004 2:36:53 AM | |
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valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
---------------- I guess everyone is Not very sure I want to write a full essay about this, but something tells me that it would not be the case that previously 'premium' stones will be discounted but the converse situation: previously 'average' stones will receive premium, and whatever fits the new standards will be even higher priced just because the new standard is 'new' and the previous is 'old'. Why not, in fact?See that page on "60%-60%" in the PS tutorial? That pair of numbers used to be the argument for a price premium, and one still hears it between the lines of the whole AGS0, H&A and Ideal cut noise. The amount of info going on around the current standards is much more than the folklore backup of the 60-60 receipe. Brands and all, I just don't see why a change in GIA's report layout will make the world tunble in the other dirrection overnight. Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 4/13/2004 2:36:53 AM | |
| P: 4/13/2004 4:29:13 AM | |
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Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,577 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
Ana and Super Idealist, if GIA say <30 degree crowns are good then cutters will get a bigger better yield on flat rough. And if they say small tables and steep crowns (with shallow pavilions and longer lower girdle facets) are good too, then makeable roundish rough will yield much more too. That will create a change - a very big change. Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 4/13/2004 4:29:13 AM | |
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