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ť I need a little price guidance from the experts out there.

I need a little price guidance from the experts out there.

P: 4/9/2004 5:02:17 PM
OBA17 Rough Rock Total Posts: 7 Last Post: 4/13/2004 Member Since: 4/9/2004	I am considering these two diamonds. I was wondering if any you all think these are appropriately priced? Any opinons on the stones are greatly appreciated as well. TIA, John First diamond - $12,000 Round brilliant Measurements: 7.62 - 7.67 x 4.73 1.70 carat Depth: 61.9 Table: 56% Girdle - med to thick faceted cutlet - none polish - excellent symmetry - excellent clarity - VS1 color - H Fluaoresence - Strong Blue 2nd Diamond - $10,500 Round brilliant Measurements: 7.75 - 7.80 x 4.86 1.81 carat Depth: 62.5 Table: 57% Girdle - Slightly thick to thick cutlet - none polish - very good symmetry - very good clarity - VS1 Color - J Fluaoresence - Med Blue
Posted: 4/9/2004 5:02:17 PM

There are 23 replies to this message. There are 23 replies on this page.

P: 4/9/2004 6:16:51 PM
strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003	There isnt enough information to say much but the price is a little high but not unreasonable if they are h&a and well cut. The first has the potentual to be very well cut the second is less likely to be. ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K
Posted: 4/9/2004 6:16:51 PM

P: 4/9/2004 7:21:55 PM
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003	For this price range I would be looking for a stone I know everything about (cut quality included). Who needs the risk to end up with a dull stone, just good to return to the seller ? To take that risk, one would want some discount, I suppose. Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian]
Posted: 4/9/2004 7:21:55 PM

P: 4/12/2004 8:20:55 PM
OBA17 Rough Rock Total Posts: 7 Last Post: 4/13/2004 Member Since: 4/9/2004	Would this help in deciding if this diamond is priced right? crown angle: 34.1 pav: 41.2 First diamond - $12,000 Round brilliant Measurements: 7.62 - 7.67 x 4.73 1.70 carat Depth: 61.9 Table: 56% Girdle - med to thick faceted cutlet - none polish - excellent symmetry - excellent clarity - VS1 color - H Fluaoresence - Strong Blue
Posted: 4/12/2004 8:20:55 PM

P: 4/12/2004 8:40:29 PM
TheDiamondPro Rough Rock Total Posts: 10 Last Post: 4/12/2004 Member Since: 4/12/2004	Personally, I avoid any diamond that is flourescent beyond faint (especially larger sizes), and look for diamonds with a table of at least 57% and depth no more than 61.5% (an improved version of the old rule-of-thumb "60-60"). It's rather difficult to see in emails if the table is square (not sloping), if the culet is in the center of the diamond, and if roundness is acceptable. As far as price> it is worth only as much as someone will pay for it.... Vasili "Knowledge is Power, and Wisdom comes from not abusing it..."
Posted: 4/12/2004 8:40:29 PM

P: 4/13/2004 12:05:57 AM
Pricescope Administrator Total Posts: 8,265 Last Post: 1/5/2008 Member Since: 1/1/2000	Citing one of the previous posts: ----- The "fluorescence is always bad" theory is a myth that has been completely debunked, but many in the industry still believe it. In rare cases, very strong fluorescene will cause a milky appearance, but it's far more common for medium-strong fluorescence to make a yellowish diamond look whiter. --------- In 1997 the GIA conducted a study that challenged trade perceptions that UV fluorescence has a negative effect on diamond appearance. Their results support an older belief that strong and very strong blue fluorescence can improve appearance, especially in diamonds with faint yellow body colour. Benefits of blue fluorescence in colourless to near-colourless diamonds was also evident in the study, bringing into question the trades lower bid prices for moderate to highly fluorescent diamonds in the better colours. See more here: The Impact of Fluorescence in Diamonds: A Different Research Perspective Pricescope
Posted: 4/13/2004 12:05:57 AM

P: 4/13/2004 12:29:11 AM
Pricescope Administrator Total Posts: 8,265 Last Post: 1/5/2008 Member Since: 1/1/2000	OBA17, I think the price is reasonable. 41.2 degree pavilion angle is on the deep edge of AGS0 grade but not too bad. Pricescope
Posted: 4/13/2004 12:29:11 AM

P: 4/13/2004 12:53:03 AM
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003	Not the best set of measurements on the block, but no disaster: this falls within the AGS0 set, but right on the edge of less than great numbers. If you are looking for outmost perfection in brilliance, this could be a tad below that mark. The price is nice, as far as I can tell. Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian]
Posted: 4/13/2004 12:53:03 AM

P: 4/13/2004 9:23:09 AM
diamondsman Ideal Rock Total Posts: 625 Last Post: 11/12/2009 Member Since: 11/11/2002	The first stone is got strong blue ,I would'nt recommend it It might be hazy ,and if you ever want to resell/trade you'll get less for it ,than one's that have no blue . The second stone is nice as the med blue might enhance the color facing up. But... the price is a bit high! check for similar stones on the web and compare prices,measur. and sizes. Good luck Diamondsman buydiamonddirect.com
Posted: 4/13/2004 9:23:09 AM

P: 4/13/2004 10:25:19 AM
fire&ice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,827 Last Post: 3/30/2009 Member Since: 7/22/2002	---------------- On 4/12/2004 8:40:29 PM TheDiamondPro wrote: Personally, I avoid any diamond that is flourescent beyond faint (especially larger sizes- Oh pooh. I wouldn't buy a stone without Blue Fluor, large, small or medium. And, the resale scare tactic is just that. When selling to the general public, all they want is a nice pretty white diamond. That is why Bluff stones can hold their value quite nicely. Geez, that old school. Do you all ever read up to date trade articles?
Posted: 4/13/2004 10:25:19 AM

P: 4/13/2004 12:14:35 PM
OBA17 Rough Rock Total Posts: 7 Last Post: 4/13/2004 Member Since: 4/9/2004	I have seen the first stone with strong blue fluor (actually I have seen both diamonds) and it looks beautiful. The str blue does not appear hazy. My main concern after reading on this site was that I was paying too much for a stone graded AGS 0 since it rated 3 on the HCA. Up to this point I have not read any posts that are of the opinion that I am paying too much.
Posted: 4/13/2004 12:14:35 PM

P: 4/13/2004 12:25:09 PM
fire&ice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,827 Last Post: 3/30/2009 Member Since: 7/22/2002	You are paying quite a bit of premium for the VS1 clarity. I would prefer to go VS2/si1 to reduce price.
Posted: 4/13/2004 12:25:09 PM

P: 4/13/2004 12:32:05 PM
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003	---------------- On 4/13/2004 12:14:35 PM OBA17 wrote: My main concern after reading on this site was that I was paying too much for a stone graded AGS 0 since it rated 3 on the HCA. ---------------- The price is usual for AGS0 - and these certs are stronger factors for pricing tha the HCA - which not too many buyers take the time to use and understand. This is why the price sounds ok. I don't see any enthusiastic threads about the stone's cut here - and the reason is exactly the one you point out. You should be able to get an AGS0 stone with a good HCA for the same. Discounts for AGS0 with bad HCA are not there. However, the stones labeled "Harts and Arrows" seem more expensive than the ones you list. And finding a stone with all angles in place but no premium on the "H&A" labeling seems a bit hard. Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian]
Posted: 4/13/2004 12:32:05 PM

P: 4/13/2004 1:23:29 PM
diamondsman Ideal Rock Total Posts: 625 Last Post: 11/12/2009 Member Since: 11/11/2002	"And, the resale scare tactic is just that." It's not a scare tactic , it's a fact.!!!!! look on most sites and compare stones that are the same quality color, etc..... , in most cases the ones that have strong blue will be cheaper!! why? Diamondsman buydiamonddirect.com
Posted: 4/13/2004 1:23:29 PM

P: 4/13/2004 1:36:59 PM
OBA17 Rough Rock Total Posts: 7 Last Post: 4/13/2004 Member Since: 4/9/2004	Since I am considering a str blu stone I have read a little on the subject. It is my undertanding that they are discounted on the Internet due to the consumers fear (ignorance) of getting a hazy stone from the Internet. I also read that only something like 2% of str blu stones are hazy. So, if you can't see the diamond before you buy it, I guess you are paying a premium to insure you don't get one of the two percenters?!? If your personal choice doesn't mandate no fluoresence, then I think you might be getting a deal by choosing a blue stone. ~~It's not a scare tactic , it's a fact.!!!!! look on most sites and compare stones that are the same quality color, etc..... , in most cases the ones that have strong blue will be cheaper!! why?~~
Posted: 4/13/2004 1:36:59 PM

P: 4/13/2004 1:46:36 PM
CaptAubrey Ideal Rock Total Posts: 862 Last Post: 3/23/2009 Member Since: 3/28/2004	---------------- On 4/13/2004 1:23:29 PM diamondsman wrote: 'And, the resale scare tactic is just that.' It's not a scare tactic , it's a fact.!!!!! look on most sites and compare stones that are the same quality color, etc..... , in most cases the ones that have strong blue will be cheaper!! why? ---------------- yes, but... if you're buying cheaper... and selling cheaper... where is the problem?
Posted: 4/13/2004 1:46:36 PM

P: 4/13/2004 4:08:24 PM
diamondsman Ideal Rock Total Posts: 625 Last Post: 11/12/2009 Member Since: 11/11/2002	"yes, but... if you're buying cheaper... and selling cheaper... where is the problem?" I agree with you but you forgot to add the word "much" Cheaper when selling. unfortunately that's the way it works these days! Diamondsman buydiamonddirect.com
Posted: 4/13/2004 4:08:24 PM

P: 4/13/2004 4:15:09 PM
fire&ice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,827 Last Post: 3/30/2009 Member Since: 7/22/2002	---------------- On 4/13/2004 4:08:24 PM diamondsman wrote: 'yes, but... if you're buying cheaper... and selling cheaper... where is the problem?' I agree with you but you forgot to add the word 'much' Cheaper when selling. unfortunately that's the way it works these days! ---------------- No, that's the way it may work with you. And, when someone is buying a stone w/ fluor., why even bring up resale value? It's a non-issue.
Posted: 4/13/2004 4:15:09 PM

P: 4/13/2004 4:47:39 PM
aljdewey Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,236 Last Post: 2/11/2008 Member Since: 11/25/2002	---------------- On 4/12/2004 8:40:29 PM TheDiamondPro wrote: Personally, I avoid any diamond that is flourescent beyond faint (especially larger sizes), and look for diamonds with a table of at least 57% and depth no more than 61.5% (an improved version of the old rule-of-thumb '60-60'). It's rather difficult to see in emails if the table is square (not sloping), if the culet is in the center of the diamond, and if roundness is acceptable. ---------------- My personal range of tables is a bit more extensive, considering that AGS gives top marks to tables of 52.5-57.5. Oh, and regarding whether or not the table is square and the culet centered.......I have a mouth and I'm not afraid to use it to ASK my vendor (online or offline) about such details. You guys are like a dog with a bone...... _____________________ Note: Chainsaw Not Sold Separately.
Posted: 4/13/2004 4:47:39 PM

P: 4/13/2004 5:15:23 PM
aljdewey Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,236 Last Post: 2/11/2008 Member Since: 11/25/2002	Yanno, these people kill me with "resale" value discussions. How many people do you think buy their engagement diamonds with an eye toward how much they'll net for the stone if it doesn't work out? Sheesh. _____________________ Note: Chainsaw Not Sold Separately.
Posted: 4/13/2004 5:15:23 PM

P: 4/13/2004 5:28:56 PM
diamondsman Ideal Rock Total Posts: 625 Last Post: 11/12/2009 Member Since: 11/11/2002	I am telling you the facts of the diamond industry,.I see a very big resistance on strong blue stones from dealers and stores. I would not recommend it!!! Oh by the way , you'll be suprised how many people upgrade from their engagement ring,after a few years, we do it many times everyweek. just my 2 cents. Diamondsman buydiamonddirect.com
Posted: 4/13/2004 5:28:56 PM

P: 4/13/2004 6:58:06 PM
OBA17 Rough Rock Total Posts: 7 Last Post: 4/13/2004 Member Since: 4/9/2004	So if I bought my blue diamond from you it would be valued "much cheaper" when I brought it back to upgrade in a few years? Is that normal in the industry? ~~Oh by the way , you'll be suprised how many people upgrade from their engagement ring,after a few years, we do it many times everyweek.~~
Posted: 4/13/2004 6:58:06 PM

P: 4/13/2004 7:46:43 PM
fire&ice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,827 Last Post: 3/30/2009 Member Since: 7/22/2002	---------------- On 4/13/2004 6:58:06 PM OBA17 wrote: So if I bought my blue diamond from you it would be valued 'much cheaper' when I brought it back to upgrade in a few years? Is that normal in the industry? ~~Oh by the way , you'll be suprised how many people upgrade from their engagement ring,after a few years, we do it many times everyweek.~~ ---------------- Oba, you have made my day. And, at the end of a day, since you mentioned you saw both stones, go with the one that you like the best. If you are concerned about the price, do a pricescope check for similar stones to see if either stone is within the range of fair. Again, you are paying for clarity. Everyone has there spec threshold. vs1 is not the best value for me. Good luck.
Posted: 4/13/2004 7:46:43 PM

P: 4/13/2004 9:49:16 PM
diamondsman Ideal Rock Total Posts: 625 Last Post: 11/12/2009 Member Since: 11/11/2002	I would try to talk you out of it.and sell one without blue! Also depending on the market price at the time you upgrade,assuming that the prices are the same as they are today ,Yes I would give you less for it,as I would have a hard time reselling it,& I would tell you that at the time of purchase. I am taliking from experience,At the end of the day it's really up to you. good luck in your purchase and may you enjoy it for many years to come. sincerely Diamondsman buydiamonddirect.com
Posted: 4/13/2004 9:49:16 PM

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